194 réponses à ce sujet

[Wintermist]

The Angry One wrote...

Elessen wrote...

Jowan would make a fine addition to an evil party, as Wynne always whine when you kill innocents...Duh...

Jowan would whine if you kill innocents.
He'd also whine if you killed evil people.
He'd whine if the moon was slightly off colour.

I like the guy, but he's a tremendous wet blanket, terribly inept and carries a cloud of bad luck with him that infects anyone close to him.

That is true, but at Redcliffe he seems to have matured a whole lot, with everything that has happened. I'd say a recruit after Redcliffe could be quite enjoyable.

[Never]

I like Jowan overall and I wouldn't mind having him in the party, but I would never use the Right of Conscription on him. IMO he doesn't have what it takes to be a Grey Warden.

[rumination888]

See how malleable Jowan is?

Perfect if you want a powerful "good" mage, perfect if you want a powerful "evil" mage, and perfect if you want a powerful "comedic" mage!

[Wintermist]

mynameisdanza wrote...

I like Jowan overall and I wouldn't mind having him in the party, but I would never use the Right of Conscription on him. IMO he doesn't have what it takes to be a Grey Warden.

He's holding his cool in a bad situation better than what Jory did though. That might be worth considering, since Jory got recruited.

[rumination888]

mynameisdanza wrote...

I like Jowan overall and I wouldn't mind having him in the party, but I would never use the Right of Conscription on him. IMO he doesn't have what it takes to be a Grey Warden.

And why don't you think he has what it takes to be a Grey Warden?

[The Angry One]

rumination888 wrote...

mynameisdanza wrote...

I like Jowan overall and I wouldn't mind having him in the party, but I would never use the Right of Conscription on him. IMO he doesn't have what it takes to be a Grey Warden.

And why don't you think he has what it takes to be a Grey Warden?

Because he'd end up summoning the Archdemon or something equally unfortunate.

[Wintermist]

The Angry One wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

mynameisdanza wrote...

I like Jowan overall and I wouldn't mind having him in the party, but I would never use the Right of Conscription on him. IMO he doesn't have what it takes to be a Grey Warden.

And why don't you think he has what it takes to be a Grey Warden?

Because he'd end up summoning the Archdemon or something equally unfortunate.

Imagine the time you'll save hunting it down!

[The Angry One]

Yeah but it'd be like..



PC: Step forward, Jowan.



Jowan: Wait! I can use blood magic to make this ritual better! Watch!



*Jowan does something stupid with blood magic and summons the Archdemon which appears right over the PC's head and squashes them*



Jowan: Not again!

[Never]

Wintermist wrote...

mynameisdanza wrote...

I like Jowan overall and I wouldn't mind having him in the party, but I would never use the Right of Conscription on him. IMO he doesn't have what it takes to be a Grey Warden.

He's holding his cool in a bad situation better than what Jory did though. That might be worth considering, since Jory got recruited.

That's a very good point, but he just doesn't seem... Idk, stable enough?  I can't imagine him devoting himself to the cause 100%.  After Redcliffe I really felt bad for him, but I was proud of him at the same time, for taking responsibility for his actions.  Then, in Howe's dungeon, you find out he blew people up and escaped again.  Then again, Daveth had become a cut purse to survive, and Duncan recruited him... Oh I don't know   I've always been so torn about him.  I guess you could say it's just a 'feeling' that he wouldn't cut it as a Warden.  If only we could have spent more time with Mr. McLovleyBeard to find out what he looked for in recruits.

[rumination888]

mynameisdanza wrote...

That's a very good point, but he just doesn't seem... Idk, stable enough?  I can't imagine him devoting himself to the cause 100%.  After Redcliffe I really felt bad for him, but I was proud of him at the same time, for taking responsibility for his actions.  Then, in Howe's dungeon, you find out he blew people up and escaped again.  Then again, Daveth had become a cut purse to survive, and Duncan recruited him... Oh I don't know   I've always been so torn about him.  I guess you could say it's just a 'feeling' that he wouldn't cut it as a Warden.  If only we could have spent more time with Mr. McLovleyBeard to find out what he looked for in recruits.

If you haven't played the City Elf origin and Dwarf Commoner origin, do so.
Try to back out of being a Grey Warden and question him why he wants to recruit you.
You'll catch a glimpse as to what Duncan looks for(summary: he wants a highly skilled combatant that can get any dangerous job done).

As I said in my earlier posts, someone that can break into the Circle of Magi vault to destroy his phylactery, poison the most powerful Arl in Fereldan, and defeat a demon of Desire in the Fade certainly has what it takes and more to be a Grey Warden.

Modifié par rumination888, 20 novembre 2009 - 01:46 .

[Haasth]

Jowan should be included and on a neutral side at the start. You should be able to mold him quite easily to either a more 'good' personality or a more 'evil' personality. He is quite easily influenced.

He should also be a different source of being able to learn Blood Magic, as a 'neutral' source.
I very much wish I could have taken him in my party, seeing he was after all an 'old friend' for my Mage.

Modifié par Haasth, 20 novembre 2009 - 01:51 .

[Wintermist]

Jowan turned me into a newt!

Modifié par Wintermist, 20 novembre 2009 - 02:07 .

[pmalygris]

SDNcN wrote...

Honestly on the long list of minor characters who should have been companions Jowan is probably the lowest.

What we need in this game is more of Bann Teagan, Ser Cauthrine, and Gorim.

Nothing says you can never go back, like running into Gorim as a Dwarven female Grey Warden and finding out that hes married with a child on the way, hes crippled and can't fight any more and that he as moved on with his life.

How ever, it is nice to head back to dust town as a castless Grey Warden and show Jarvia a few new tricks

mal

[Shady314]

Jowan!? He's like a solo Wonder Twin! And when he had Lily they were the Wonder Twins! I can't believe how stupid his plan was to escape. I had no qualms warning Irving because I had zero doubt he already knew. Being forced to partake in their idiocy was the ultimate insult. Give me a Gregoir option to cut to the chase dammit. Hell it would've worked out better anyways because Lily would not have been punished which would have made Jowan happier when I run into him in Redcliffe.

[Aeschylus08]

more areas, ways to restore your honor (human noble gets to be king, dwarf restores honor and gets tobe king ect..) or elf finds his history and becomes imortal..



Ftw

[Majspuffen]

I think Jowan should be recruitable. He is killable too, so if you don't like him, kill him. I myself am very disappointed that I could not recruit him, after all we both went through. Since you nor Alistair knows how to prepare the joining ritual, the right of conscription would just be an excuse to save his skin.

While this game is daaaark, and evil, and nasty, it does have bright moments too, if you do the right choices. Now you can do as much as you want to redeem Jowan, but all you get is another dialogue alternative that doesn't change anything. I'd love to recruit Jowan and then perhaps try to find out what happened to Lily. That could be dark, I don't mind.

[rumination888]

Shady314 wrote...

Jowan!? He's like a solo Wonder Twin! And when he had Lily they were the Wonder Twins! I can't believe how stupid his plan was to escape. I had no qualms warning Irving because I had zero doubt he already knew. Being forced to partake in their idiocy was the ultimate insult. Give me a Gregoir option to cut to the chase dammit. Hell it would've worked out better anyways because Lily would not have been punished which would have made Jowan happier when I run into him in Redcliffe.

His plan worked. He escaped. The only hitch was, in the end, Lily didn't want to escape with him.
So how was his plan stupid?

Jowan has the will to survive(another requirement to successfully... survive... the Joining ritual BTW). It was either escape or become a husk of a human.
His plan is dangerous, certainly, but far from foolish.

[Anton de Staen]

I'd love being able to invoke the Right of Conscription to save him.

[finnwop]

I'd rather have Gorim, you could roll up to him in Denerim and ...



GORIM!

Yes my lord Aeducan?

I'm on a mission from Andraste, and I'm getting the band back together!

As always I am your man my lord!



Insert song and dance number, I'd prefer something from the Platters.

[Wintermist]

finnwop wrote...

I'd rather have Gorim, you could roll up to him in Denerim and ...

GORIM!
Yes my lord Aeducan?
I'm on a mission from Andraste, and I'm getting the band back together!
As always I am your man my lord!

Insert song and dance number, I'd prefer something from the Platters.

Blues Brothers for the win!

[Shady314]

rumination888 wrote...
His plan worked. He escaped.

:lol:That wasn't his plan. He got lucky one time and survived though he could never have done it without you. So yeah. Stupid.

The only hitch was, in the end, Lily didn't want to escape with him.

So in other words for him it was a total failure. He got lucky. He certainly wasn't escaping the Redcliffe dungeon.

So how was his plan stupid?

Hmmm That Irving AND Gregoir know about it. That he honestly thought he and Lily could go live happily ever after when he couldn't be honest enough with her to admit he was a blood mage. Thinking the Templars wouldn't track him down even without his phylactery when he is as stupid as he is. And oh yeah a Templar did catch him but luckily Loghain came along and saved his bacon. That his plan relies on YOU, not himself. That he even needed a plan in the first place. If he hadn't dabbled in blood magic he could have just gone through the Harrowing. He was too frightened of the Harrowing though so he turned to blood magic. You think he wouldn't pull a Jory freakout at the Joining?

How about the fact he doesn't even have a plan?! I think we can get past the first door. As for the second. I dunno. Maybe a rod of fire could do it. You can even point out and ask "what if it's a magic door?" Which oh yeah IT IS! He's ready to give up when you find the rod indeed does not work on the door. Wow really? who would have imagined the door to the most dangerous and important area of the tower might be protected fairly well from ****** apprentices and perhaps magic users in general. Duh.

Jowan has the will to survive(another requirement to successfully... survive... the Joining ritual BTW). It was either escape or become a husk of a human.His plan is dangerous, certainly, but far from foolish.

Wrong on so many levels. He is ONLY going to get tranquiled because he gets busted for being a blood mage. So Incompetence. He dabbled in the forbidden and got caught.
His utter reliance on YOU to save his ass. His plan does not wok without you. So much for self-reliance. In the same vein he wants to escape to live with Lily as if they can have a future together when he is not honest with her about his blood magic.
He is caught by the Templars. Part of the plan is not getting caught once you get out of the tower. 
After the Templar catches him Loghain catches him! Then he becomes Loghain's patsy!

Will to survive? He's practically given up when you run into him in the dungeon. He's finally realized what an idiot he's been. He's completely willing to accept his execution at the end of it all!
In the cell he begs you to free him and let him try to atone for his mistakes. so if you ask him to come with you and help it should be a no brainer right? Wrong! He is still TOO SCARED. He specifically cites the danger of the situation. "I don't know if I want to help THAT way." Grey Warden material my ass!

Modifié par Shady314, 20 novembre 2009 - 02:50 .

[sylkwyrm1]

actually i assumed he was one of those that uldred had jerked down the path and then exposed, he only found out in time cuz of his hawt naked affair with a nun, though arguably as things go maybe the ones uldred exposed were the ones with too much concience or not enough ability to be of use to him later, it also kinda explains why you get no clue as to how irving/gregoir found out cuz it's a plot spoiler (leaving aside the fact from a realism viewpoint they would probably not be inclined to share such info with you just cuz you asked)

Modifié par sylkwyrm1, 20 novembre 2009 - 02:59 .

[FlintlockJazz]

Jowan as a third mage who is neither a total **** (Morrigan) nor a goody two-shoes (Wynne) would be good, especially if you're not playing a Mage yourself, and the fact that he is male would also help balance the genders in each class more (we'd then just need a couple of female warriors and sorted), since I'm getting fed up of the 'beautiful female sorcerer and badass male warrior' stereotypes.  Lets get some Red Sonyas in the mix!

Modifié par FlintlockJazz, 20 novembre 2009 - 03:22 .

[rumination888]

Shady314 wrote...

rumination888 wrote...
His plan worked. He escaped.

:lol:That wasn't his plan. He got lucky one time and survived though he could never have done it without you. So yeah. Stupid.

The only hitch was, in the end, Lily didn't want to escape with him.

So in other words for him it was a total failure. He got lucky. He certainly wasn't escaping the Redcliffe dungeon.

So how was his plan stupid?

Hmmm That Irving AND Gregoir know about it. That he honestly thought he and Lily could go live happily ever after when he couldn't be honest enough with her to admit he was a blood mage. Thinking the Templars wouldn't track him down even without his phylactery when he is as stupid as he is. And oh yeah a Templar did catch him but luckily Loghain came along and saved his bacon. That his plan relies on YOU, not himself. That he even needed a plan in the first place. If he hadn't dabbled in blood magic he could have just gone through the Harrowing. He was too frightened of the Harrowing though so he turned to blood magic. You think he wouldn't pull a Jory freakout at the Joining?

How about the fact he doesn't even have a plan?! I think we can get past the first door. As for the second. I dunno. Maybe a rod of fire could do it. You can even point out and ask "what if it's a magic door?" Which oh yeah IT IS! He's ready to give up when you find the rod indeed does not work on the door. Wow really? who would have imagined the door to the most dangerous and important area of the tower might be protected fairly well from ****** apprentices and perhaps magic users in general. Duh.

Jowan has the will to survive(another requirement to successfully... survive... the Joining ritual BTW). It was either escape or become a husk of a human.His plan is dangerous, certainly, but far from foolish.

Wrong on so many levels. He is ONLY going to get tranquiled because he gets busted for being a blood mage. So Incompetence. He dabbled in the forbidden and got caught.
His utter reliance on YOU to save his ass. His plan does not wok without you. So much for self-reliance. In the same vein he wants to escape to live with Lily as if they can have a future together when he is not honest with her about his blood magic.
He is caught by the Templars. Part of the plan is not getting caught once you get out of the tower. 
After the Templar catches him Loghain catches him! Then he becomes Loghain's patsy!

Will to survive? He's practically given up when you run into him in the dungeon. He's finally realized what an idiot he's been. He's completely willing to accept his execution at the end of it all!
In the cell he begs you to free him and let him try to atone for his mistakes. so if you ask him to come with you and help it should be a no brainer right? Wrong! He is still TOO SCARED. He specifically cites the danger of the situation. "I don't know if I want to help THAT way." Grey Warden material my ass!

That was his plan. He would've succeeded regardless if you were there or not. The only reason he needed you in the first place was because the magic door requires a senior mage to open it. The Mage origin character is his closest friend and a newly appointed senior mage. Why wouldn't he ask you for help? You do realize Jowan escapes even if you didn't play the Mage origin, right?

What? He didn't lie about being a blood mage. He wasn't one until he was backed into a corner.
Knowing blood magic and using it are two different things. The Circle of Magi treaty quest and the various notes you read within the tower would've shown you that practically every single non-apprentice in the tower knows blood magic.(and if you unlocked the Blood Mage specialization in a previous game, you can use that role-playing element as justification of why you know blood magic despite not having bargained with Conner's demon). Its made abundantly clear that the senior mages rule the tower and only let the templars see what they want them to see.

I don't remember any lines of dialogue where Jowan was freightened of the Harrowing.
Infact, most of his introductory dialogue was him whining to me about wanting to do the Harrowing even though they won't let him.

He didn't get "busted" for anything. Irving knows EVERYTHING that goes on within the tower. The only reason Irving didn't let Jowan do the Harrowing was because he wanted to use Lily to get back at the Chantry. The only reason Greagor even knows about it is because Irving told him. So, unlucky? Yes. Incompetent? Hardly.
And again, if you don't play the mage origin he doesn't rely on YOU at all.

How the hell is he scared when you tell him you want him to come with you in the jail cell scene? He tells you he wants to look for survivors and try to help out in other ways. What else is he supposed to say?
"I can't join you because if you backtrack out of the castle, and head into the companion selection screen with me in your party, the game would crash."

[sylkwyrm1]

agreeing upto that last bit, you can actually ask him to join you, presumably the same way avernus joined you in wardens keep, but he says something along the lines of i don't wanna fight i'd rather help in some other way, he really did seem to chicken out at that point, but he could have fled and didn't ultimately so i overlooked it