194 réponses à ce sujet

[Wintermist]

Modders can do anything a company can. A company are just people gathered under the direction of a tyrant or more. Modders can also unite under a leader and produce products of the very same quality.

[KalosCast]

ValentineHeart82 wrote...
I highly suspect that EA-BioWare has been dishonest with us regarding Shale, since Shale is character number 5 in the Console and has dialogue throughout the entire game. I suspect that BioWare already had Shale finished but pretended that she wasn't finished to justify making her DLC, and that EA-BioWare has outright lied to us and insulted our intelligence by pretending that Shale wasn't ready after an arbitrary and possibly nonexistant lockdown (if they were polishing the game and creating content it wasn't locked down).

Yes, because this sort of thing has NEVER happened in a game before. That's why there are gay and lesbian romance options for Kaidan and Ashley respectively in Mass Effect, right? Or why there's a Droid planet and an ending in KotOR 2, no? Things get cut for various reasons all the time and whatever arbitrary number some programmer decided to assign to something has no realistic bearing on the development timeline. And if you bought the game, you got it for free! So how could Bioware even be accused of milking the fanbase?

ValentineHeart82 wrote...
All that aside, the way the DLC is handled, especially Warden's Keep and the upcoming Return to Ostagar, actually encourages piracy. People are less willing to buy a game if they know that they will also have to buy DLC for the game, and since the DLC and the Game are both already cracked and pirated it's legitimate gamers like us who get shafted. I don't blame BioWare for any of this though, I blame EA. EA's CEO clearly announced his intentions to use DLC as a means of income over traditional means, he compared selling retail games to being the guy at the video store trying to rent out DvDs in an age of Pay Per View.

If Bioware had released this game in its entirety without ever offering DLC, could you have possibly called it an unfinished game? Nobody is making you buy any of this, it's merely additional content for people who enjoyed the game and want to extend their playtime. This is no different from being able to buy more songs in Guitar Hero, or getting additional questlines like Oblivion's Nights of the Nine and Shivering Isles.

ValentineHeart82 wrote...
This type of thing angers and insults many gamers who feel that they should not have to buy an unfinished game only to buy back the parts that should have been there in the finished product, it's a major driving force behind piracy and it's a major reason that so many pirates now target EA, intentionally doanloading and seeding games they never even intend to play.

Yes, people will be irrationally hateful of whatever logos are peppered across the bottom of the gamebox, and they're certainly not encouraging developers to keep seeking to make money in "traditional" means for their products by doing so. And once again, this is clearly not finishing out an unfinished game. Your self-entitlement knows no bounds.

[KalosCast]

Wintermist wrote...

Modders can do anything a company can. A company are just people gathered under the direction of a tyrant or more. Modders can also unite under a leader and produce products of the very same quality.

And considering that Bioware gave us the mod tools... for free.. and made mods very easy to add and implement... OH MY GOD THEY'RE FORCING US TO BUY THEIR DLC OH MY GOD THE WORLD IS GOING TO END! RUNNNNNNN!

[The Angry One]

Wintermist wrote...

Modders can do anything a company can. A company are just people gathered under the direction of a tyrant or more. Modders can also unite under a leader and produce products of the very same quality.

That is an outrageous claim!!

... mod team leaders can be quite tyrannical too.

[ValentineHeart82]

The Angry One wrote...

Elessen wrote...

Jowan would make a fine addition to an evil party, as Wynne always whine when you kill innocents...Duh...

Jowan would whine if you kill innocents.
He'd also whine if you killed evil people.
He'd whine if the moon was slightly off colour.

I like the guy, but he's a tremendous wet blanket, terribly inept and carries a cloud of bad luck with him that infects anyone close to him.

Yeah I don't want Jowan to be particularly evil, maybe he should be able to be persuaded to take a more evil view on things, like if you're evil then after a bit of dialogue he has an "I never looked at it that way" moment and all of his reactions afterward are more aligned with an evil character, eventually leading to an "I've created a monster" moment for your main character which you have to choose how to deal with.

Modifié par ValentineHeart82, 20 novembre 2009 - 10:56 .

[Wintermist]

The Angry One wrote...

Wintermist wrote...

Modders can do anything a company can. A company are just people gathered under the direction of a tyrant or more. Modders can also unite under a leader and produce products of the very same quality.

That is an outrageous claim!!

... mod team leaders can be quite tyrannical too.

Hey, don't ruin my rebellious outburst by stating the truth!

[ValentineHeart82]

KalosCast wrote...
If Bioware had released this game in its entirety without ever offering DLC, could you have possibly called it an unfinished game? Nobody is making you buy any of this, it's merely additional content for people who enjoyed the game and want to extend their playtime. This is no different from being able to buy more songs in Guitar Hero, or getting additional questlines like Oblivion's Nights of the Nine and Shivering Isles.

Alright pal I'm going to ignore the rest of what you said, I might even agree with it, but the way Warden's Keep DLC is handled in game is a disgrace. You aren't forced to buy it but if you don't you're forced to put up with an unfinished quest and an NPC with a huge quest marker over his head (In your main camp no less) begging you to do the quest and when you go to agree it basically says "Give us money for cut content that should have been in the finished game". That's an insult, and it justified piracy in the minds of many gamers. It even makes me sympathetic to pirates and I bought the damn game. It was a stupid, stupid move and the gaming community at large has been upset by it, BioWare should seek to make amends somehow truly, but so long as people like you act like they can do no wrong then they'll repeat this sort of mistake and they'll suffer record piracy next time around because of it.

Modifié par ValentineHeart82, 20 novembre 2009 - 10:59 .

[KalosCast]

ValentineHeart82 wrote...

KalosCast wrote...
If Bioware had released this game in its entirety without ever offering DLC, could you have possibly called it an unfinished game? Nobody is making you buy any of this, it's merely additional content for people who enjoyed the game and want to extend their playtime. This is no different from being able to buy more songs in Guitar Hero, or getting additional questlines like Oblivion's Nights of the Nine and Shivering Isles.

Alright pal I'm going to ignore the rest of what you said, I might even agree with it, but the way Warden's Keep DLC is handled in game is a disgrace. You aren't forced to buy it but if you don't you're forced to put up with an unfinished quest and an NPC with a huge quest marker over his head begging you to do the quest and when you go to agree it basically says "Give us money for cut content that should have been in the finished game". That's an insult, and it justified piracy in the minds of many gamers. It even makes me sympathetic to pirates and I bought the damn game. It was a stupid, stupid move and the gaming community at large has been upset by it, BioWare should seek to make amends somehow truly, but so long as people like you act like they can do no wrong then they'll repeat this sort of mistake and they'll suffer record piracy next time around because of it.

If a block of pixels in an area of the game where you don't even really spend that much time and can be easily ignored for a DLC that has no bearing on the main quest whatsoever has you this upset... you might want to take a long walk outside and think about what's really important in life.

I will agree that it's definitely not worth paying for in the slightest, that's why I didn't buy it, but considering the guy doesn't even appear until after you apply a patch to the game (at least for me at any rate) I find it hard to believe that this is some massive milking of something that was "totally supposed to be in the game already" especially considering how jarring and out of place his appearance is in camp.

[ValentineHeart82]

KalosCast wrote...

If a block of pixels in an area of the game where you don't even really spend that much time and can be easily ignored

He appeared in the game first thing when I entered camp for the first time before there even was a patch and you start out with the quest as soon as you create your character and the only way to get rid of it and get rid of the huge quest marker in the main camp is to buy the DLC. Sorry but I spend a lot of time in camp and his quest marker is a huge beacon and a lot of people are completionist. My sentiments are not simply my own, you're stance is the minority position on this issue and we're done talking, this is all off topic anyway.

Modifié par ValentineHeart82, 20 novembre 2009 - 11:06 .

[Walina]

Oh, great how did it end up like that ? XD

[KalosCast]

ValentineHeart82 wrote...

KalosCast wrote...

If a block of pixels in an area of the game where you don't even really spend that much time and can be easily ignored

Sorry but I spend a lot of time in camp and my sentiments are not my own alone, you're stance is the minority stance on this issue and we're done talking, this is all off topic anyway.

Your stance is held by reptoid shapeshifting aliens who secretly control The Pirate Bay! We're done talking now!

See? I can make baseless claims and then attempt to invalidate response too.

[ValentineHeart82]

*sigh* some people just don't know when to stop trolling.

[Never]

rumination888 wrote...

mynameisdanza wrote...

That's a very good point, but he just doesn't seem... Idk, stable enough?  I can't imagine him devoting himself to the cause 100%.  After Redcliffe I really felt bad for him, but I was proud of him at the same time, for taking responsibility for his actions.  Then, in Howe's dungeon, you find out he blew people up and escaped again.  Then again, Daveth had become a cut purse to survive, and Duncan recruited him... Oh I don't know   I've always been so torn about him.  I guess you could say it's just a 'feeling' that he wouldn't cut it as a Warden.  If only we could have spent more time with Mr. McLovleyBeard to find out what he looked for in recruits.

If you haven't played the City Elf origin and Dwarf Commoner origin, do so.
Try to back out of being a Grey Warden and question him why he wants to recruit you.
You'll catch a glimpse as to what Duncan looks for(summary: he wants a highly skilled combatant that can get any dangerous job done).

As I said in my earlier posts, someone that can break into the Circle of Magi vault to destroy his phylactery, poison the most powerful Arl in Fereldan, and defeat a demon of Desire in the Fade certainly has what it takes and more to be a Grey Warden.

Wait, you can poison him?!  I assume you're talking about the City Elf origin.  I always just killed him with mah stabbity stab.

[The Angry One]

You have to admit the NPC acting as a DLC salesman in game is rather bad form.

Though BioWare are by no means the first to pull this (I'm looking at you, Nippon Ichi).

[David Gaider]

ValentineHeart82 wrote...
I highly suspect that EA-BioWare has been dishonest with us regarding Shale, since Shale is character number 5 in the Console and has dialogue throughout the entire game. I suspect that BioWare already had Shale finished but pretended that she wasn't finished to justify making her DLC, and that EA-BioWare has outright lied to us and insulted our intelligence by pretending that Shale wasn't ready after an arbitrary and possibly nonexistant lockdown (if they were polishing the game and creating content it wasn't locked down).

All that aside, the way the DLC is handled, especially Warden's Keep and the upcoming Return to Ostagar, actually encourages piracy. People are less willing to buy a game if they know that they will also have to buy DLC for the game, and since the DLC and the Game are both already cracked and pirated it's legitimate gamers like us who get shafted. I don't blame BioWare for any of this though, I blame EA. EA's CEO clearly announced his intentions to use DLC as a means of income over traditional means, he compared selling retail games to being the guy at the video store trying to rent out DvDs in an age of Pay Per View.

This type of thing angers and insults many gamers who feel that they should not have to buy an unfinished game only to buy back the parts that should have been there in the finished product, it's a major driving force behind piracy and it's a major reason that so many pirates now target EA, intentionally doanloading and seeding games they never even intend to play.

Well that was awkward.

[Akka le Vil]

mynameisdanza wrote...

Wait, you can poison him?!  I assume you're talking about the City Elf origin.  I always just killed him with mah stabbity stab.

He's talking about Jowan.

[KalosCast]

ValentineHeart82 wrote...

*sigh* some people just don't know when to stop trolling.

Because every time I troll, you respond. It's what keeps me coming back [/basic primer on dealing with people on the interent]

[KalosCast]

The Angry One wrote...

You have to admit the NPC acting as a DLC salesman in game is rather bad form.
Though BioWare are by no means the first to pull this (I'm looking at you, Nippon Ichi).

It is awkward and jarring, but incredibly easy to ignore and not something to start a widespread rebellion over.

[ValentineHeart82]

The Angry One wrote...

You have to admit the NPC acting as a DLC salesman in game is rather bad form.
Though BioWare are by no means the first to pull this (I'm looking at you, Nippon Ichi).

Exactly, it's extremely bad form, and it's generated a lot of hate. Contrary to what a confessed troll said, it's not easy to ignore because it's a huge honking marker right there in your base camp which is a place that any player who cares about the story is going to spend a lot of time in dialogue, and some of the dialogue has that huge honking quest marker in the back ground. BioWare should provide an optional patch/fix to remove him for people who don't want the Keep.

We're not talking about a quest marker in the Spoiled Princess Tavern, we're takinging about a huge honking quest marker in the main camp and a quest forced into our log without us ever accepting it. I would have bought Warden's Keep anyway but I almost didn't on principle.

Modifié par ValentineHeart82, 20 novembre 2009 - 11:21 .

[The Angry One]

Unfortunately for all the angst it may generate, it also generates a lot of money

Like I said BioWare/EA are following in the footsteps of a lot of other successful in-game advertisers. However much we may dislike it, it's the way of the future as long as it makes money.

[Malkut]

EA's CEO clearly announced his intentions to use DLC as a means of income over traditional means

THAT INSIDIOUS BASTARD!



Who ever heard of a company trying to make money?

[KalosCast]

Malkut wrote...

EA's CEO clearly announced his intentions to use DLC as a means of income over traditional means

THAT INSIDIOUS BASTARD!

Who ever heard of a company trying to make money?

I know, right? I thought that big corporations were so big so I'd have lots of people to play kickball with.

[Never]

Akka le Vil wrote...

mynameisdanza wrote...

Wait, you can poison him?!  I assume you're talking about the City Elf origin.  I always just killed him with mah stabbity stab.

He's talking about Jowan.

Ooooh, right.  I suppose he was still the Arl's son at the time anyhow.

[David Gaider]

ValentineHeart82 wrote...
Exactly, it's extremely bad form, and it's generated a lot of hate. BioWare should provide an optional patch/fix to remove him for people who don't want the Keep.

And while we're at it, something should really be done about those commercials they've been showing while I'm watching my stories on the television. I don't like them! They interrupt my immersion, and I don't think they are informative or convince anyone to actually buy anything anyway. It's just rude, and I paid for the television so nothing on it should ever change! Back to the days of no commercials, please!

Sorry, I know that's not really related to the point of this thread, but I just had to rant for a moment. I know my brother says I can just ignore those commercials or fast-forward on the PVR to get back to my stories, but the principle still makes me SOOOOO MAD! I really don't know why the TV people don't listen to me when I write them sternly worded letters and tell them how angry everyone is! They won't be long for this world, mark my words, and that's all I'll say on the subject.

Anyway. *ahem* Back to Jowan.

Modifié par David Gaider, 20 novembre 2009 - 11:26 .

[ValentineHeart82]

Malkut wrote...

EA's CEO clearly announced his intentions to use DLC as a means of income over traditional means

THAT INSIDIOUS BASTARD!

Who ever heard of a company trying to make money?

There's nothing wrong with making money, but there are wrong ways to do it. If your method of making money is also costing you customer loyalty and making customers angery, and causing otherwise legitimate customers to become sympathetic to thieves and making it easier for thieves to justify theft and convince otherwise legitimate customers to also commit theft then you are trading success today for a slow death tomorrow.