489 réponses à ce sujet

[TheHawkeWhoFlies]

More retcons? I'm hyped for the book itself and will probably buy it (especially if it comes out around christmas), but I hope the "book canon" doesn't become "game canon" too; they've already made enough DAO choices utterly pointless, in my opinion.

I also hope it doesn't become another mage bash-fest - they really seemed to go out of their way to vilify just about every mage in DA2.

Beyond those little nags, this is pretty good news

[NinaDA]

Really looking forward to this! I enjoyed the first two books because I cannot get enough of the DA universe. Having characters we interacted with and grew attached to in this novel is a big fat glistening cherry on the cake.

[VioletTheirin]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Wynne can die in Origins on 2 occassions. Same goes for Shale, you could leave her as a statue or you could kill her at the end of the Anvil of the Void quest. I take it Bioware doesn't care about our choices and is establishing a canon then?

While I can't explain Shale (and I doubt anyone killed Shale because she's so awesome), Wynne was given an explanation the moment you met her:


A Spirit saved her life once. There's no reason it couldn't do it again, albeit at the cost of weakening itself.

And aside from that, even if we kill her it doesn't mean that she didn't have a son from before.  The moment she dies he doesn't automatically get snuffed from existance.

[Nerevar-as]

It seems DA will have a canon, even if it´s a loose one. But if something as major as character deaths can be retconned, I´m quite worried about other major decisions. OGB? Ferelden Throne? I guess we can already infer Ferelden Circle wasn´t Annuled.

[TEWR]

For the love of....


*sigh*


It's not a retcon. You still tried to kill Leliana (whether you were successful remains to be seen. You could've left her for dead or she could've died and was brought back. Not to mention Rogues know feign death).

You still made the choice to kill her and that choice will be reflected upon.


You still attacked Wynne, but she has a spirit inside her that saved her once before. There is no reason why it couldn't do it again. She also says that she's able to call upon the spirit at will. Should she become alive in game canon, I would think that choice would be reflected upon too.


Retcon is when your choice is thrown out the window and it never happened. Bioware seems to be very careful as they are saying it still happened, it will be reflected upon, but there's a good reason why they're still alive.


Retcon =/= valid explanation.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 14 juin 2011 - 08:23 .

[Greimore]

And here I was hoping for a book in Weisshaupt. Oh well; I get to see more of Shale! She was an amazing character.
P.S. For those of you who have read The Stolen Throne you should have made the assumption that Wilhelm's golem was Shale before she was chiseled down "with a lot of nerve."

[Brockololly]

Nice- that area to the West of Orlais always sounded and looked interesting on the map. With all the ominous sounding names like "Arl Dumat," "The Abyssal Reach," "Urthemiel Plateau," "Sulfur Point" and all the sort of Mordor-ish sounding stuff.

Sounds more interesting than Kirkwall, thats for sure. Although I do wonder if this book sets the stage for future DA stuff at all in terms of canon.

Modifié par Brockololly, 14 juin 2011 - 08:23 .

[rolson00]

David Gaider wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...
Did you shoot at them with a bee-bee gun?

Worse. I glared at them and wrote words of derision.

good to see you outside of the da2 owner thread but the pigeons where i live arnt scared of humans that much sometimes you have to walk slowly in front of them because they wont bloody move or they'll fly close to your face  im always scared of getting a disease

Modifié par rolson00, 14 juin 2011 - 08:28 .

[Greimore]

Brockololly wrote...

Nice- that area to the West of Orlais always sounded and looked interesting on the map. With all the ominous sounding names like "Arl Dumat," "The Abyssal Reach," "Urthemiel Plateau," "Sulfur Point" and all the sort of Mordor-ish sounding stuff.

Sounds more interesting than Kirkwall, thats for sure. Although I do wonder if this book sets the stage for future DA stuff at all in terms of canon.

Sounds like a great place to start a new blight!

[Aeowyn]

Filament wrote...

How do you pronounce Rhys..?

Some people with the name Rhys pronounce it "Reese", others "Riss". Really depends what pronunciation Gaider has in his head.

Also, looking forward to the upcoming novel

[wildannie]

Good news! sound very interesting and can't wait to read more about Shale

[Huntress]

Can't wait!!.. So many good books coming this year, July 12 Dance with dragons, agust 16 the omen machine and now dragon age by "december" maybe? woot!!!

[LobselVith8]

According to Peter David: "retroactive continuity (often shortened to retcon) refers to the alteration of previously established facts in a literary work. Retcons may be carried out for a variety of reasons, such as to accommodate sequels or further derivative works in the same series, to reintroduce popular characters, to resolve chronological issues, to reboot a familiar series for modern audiences, or to simplify an excessively complex continuity structure."

[wildannie]

vampyresheepy wrote...

Well, i will admit i haven't got the first two books yet, but with news of a third on its way i've just ordered them and will hope to have them both read in time for the third. Can not wait =D

I just did that too .... 

[Huntress]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Wynne can die in Origins on 2 occassions. Same goes for Shale, you could leave her as a statue or you could kill her at the end of the Anvil of the Void quest. I take it Bioware doesn't care about our choices and is establishing a canon then?

OUR choices?? You mean you're choice because I'll never do such a thing!!
Why do people like you think that what they did in thier game is what  DA should reflect?
what about the rest of US, the ones who do not go killing companions because is just stupid or just because we don't kill companions and we rather have them as friends??

Any way I can't wait to hear more about Dragon age: asunder and the characters that join wynne son that we meet in DA2, oh I wish was Beth/carver!! hehe I really like them:P

[Skilled Seeker]

VioletTheirin wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Wynne can die in Origins on 2 occassions. Same goes for Shale, you could leave her as a statue or you could kill her at the end of the Anvil of the Void quest. I take it Bioware doesn't care about our choices and is establishing a canon then?

While I can't explain Shale (and I doubt anyone killed Shale because she's so awesome), Wynne was given an explanation the moment you met her:


A Spirit saved her life once. There's no reason it couldn't do it again, albeit at the cost of weakening itself.

And aside from that, even if we kill her it doesn't mean that she didn't have a son from before.  The moment she dies he doesn't automatically get snuffed from existance.

The Pulse interview seems to state that Wynne in person will be in the book as well though it could be flashbacks from before Origins.

And Eth I've already mentioned Shale to which you have no answer for. She can be killed too, or are you going to come up with some cheap excuse as to why she can't die either.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 14 juin 2011 - 08:57 .

[Skilled Seeker]

Huntress wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Wynne can die in Origins on 2 occassions. Same goes for Shale, you could leave her as a statue or you could kill her at the end of the Anvil of the Void quest. I take it Bioware doesn't care about our choices and is establishing a canon then?

OUR choices?? You mean you're choice because I'll never do such a thing!!
Why do people like you think that what they did in thier game is what  DA should reflect?
what about the rest of US, the ones who do not go killing companions because is just stupid or just because we don't kill companions and we rather have them as friends??

Any way I can't wait to hear more about Dragon age: asunder and the characters that join wynne son that we meet in DA2, oh I wish was Beth/carver!! hehe I really like them:P

I don't want any canon of any kind established. Because otherwise OUR choices, as in the community's different choices, not just mine, are pointless. Either don't let us make these choices or respect them if you allow us.

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 14 juin 2011 - 08:58 .

[TEWR]

LobselVith8 wrote...

According to Peter David: "retroactive continuity (often shortened to retcon) refers to the alteration of previously established facts in a literary work. Retcons may be carried out for a variety of reasons, such as to accommodate sequels or further derivative works in the same series, to reintroduce popular characters, to resolve chronological issues, to reboot a familiar series for modern audiences, or to simplify an excessively complex continuity structure."

Well since the Warden didn't say "Welp, they're dead" I don't see how anyone can say that they were dead. He could've knocked them unconscious on purpose.


It was never established as fact Wynne or Leliana were actually dead. The players are only assuming they are dead because that's what they want. But the player is just as restricted in who he/she kills as they are in what he/she makes their Warden say.

[wildannie]

Huntress wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Wynne can die in Origins on 2 occassions. Same goes for Shale, you could leave her as a statue or you could kill her at the end of the Anvil of the Void quest. I take it Bioware doesn't care about our choices and is establishing a canon then?

OUR choices?? You mean you're choice because I'll never do such a thing!!
Why do people like you think that what they did in thier game is what  DA should reflect?
what about the rest of US, the ones who do not go killing companions because is just stupid or just because we don't kill companions and we rather have them as friends??

Any way I can't wait to hear more about Dragon age: asunder and the characters that join wynne son that we meet in DA2, oh I wish was Beth/carver!! hehe I really like them:P

This x 1000000

Modifié par wildannie, 14 juin 2011 - 08:58 .

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

According to Peter David: "retroactive continuity (often shortened to retcon) refers to the alteration of previously established facts in a literary work. Retcons may be carried out for a variety of reasons, such as to accommodate sequels or further derivative works in the same series, to reintroduce popular characters, to resolve chronological issues, to reboot a familiar series for modern audiences, or to simplify an excessively complex continuity structure."

Well since the Warden didn't say "Welp, they're dead" I don't see how anyone can say that they were dead. He could've knocked them unconscious on purpose.

It was never established as fact Wynne or Leliana were actually dead. The players are only assuming they are dead because that's what they want. But the player is just as restricted in who he/she kills as they are in what he/she makes their Warden say.

The codex entry does mention their deaths in Origins. That said, I liked Shale, but I can see how this can be an issue for people who killed one of three characters (or even all three) and feel it's another example of their choices being ignored.

I'll only accept Hawke in the novel if he's siding with Xenon the Antiquarian and his trusty sidekick Thaddeus Gigantus Crumbum the Third.

[KennethAFTopp]

Who said this was about Wynne's son?
Nevermind..

"You'd probably have to play Dragon Age 2, because stuff in Dragon Age 2 is referenced." haha good try.

Modifié par KennethAFTopp, 14 juin 2011 - 09:06 .

[TEWR]

Gaider.


@Lob: We've been told codexes aren't exactly reliable that we can trust them completely.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 14 juin 2011 - 09:06 .

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Gaider.


@Lob: We've been told codexes aren't exactly reliable that we can trust them completely.

We've been told that after the developers kept changing what we were told happened in Origins.

[Nerevar-as]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Gaider.


@Lob: We've been told codexes aren't exactly reliable that we can trust them completely.

Yeah, don´t trust anything because it can get changed in the future. Well, at least for DA2 that won´t be much trouble, with choices ususally having the same results.

I really hope the book gives a reason for the Templar-Mage war that is Actually beliavable.

[TheHawkeWhoFlies]

Huntress wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Wynne can die in Origins on 2 occassions. Same goes for Shale, you could leave her as a statue or you could kill her at the end of the Anvil of the Void quest. I take it Bioware doesn't care about our choices and is establishing a canon then?

OUR choices?? You mean you're choice because I'll never do such a thing!!
Why do people like you think that what they did in thier game is what  DA should reflect?
what about the rest of US, the ones who do not go killing companions because is just stupid or just because we don't kill companions and we rather have them as friends??

Any way I can't wait to hear more about Dragon age: asunder and the characters that join wynne son that we meet in DA2, oh I wish was Beth/carver!! hehe I really like them:P

But it was a choice(s). It was a choice(s) presented to us, the players. They chose to put it in the game. Which inevitably means that someone is going to take it. Besides, most of the times you had to kill companions you don't actively try to do so; they turn against you. You have no choice not to kill Leliana/Wynne if you destroy the ashes (unless you pull off an intimidation check while she's hardened in Leliana's case). You can't convince Wynne that you're in the right if you decide to heed Cullen's advice and cull all the mages in the harrowing chamber.

The point is, why should the players who made those choices have to be cheated? How would the players that chose Harrowmont as king in their playthroughs have reacted if it was later retconned so that Bhelen becomes king automatically despite what they chose (now, I don't think they'll actually do something that drastic, but the point still stands)? If character death is presented as an option, it should be respected just like every other choice you can make. If you value some choices over others, it's inevitably going to upset people.

Now, Wynne and Shale (and Leliana - my personal favorite DAO companion) are really cool characters, and I see nothing wrong with them returning. But if BW absolutely must annul some choices to make comebacks possible (and not, you know, have them not be there as a consequence of said choice, because that isn't acceptable ), they should at least give a good in-game reason for why said choices were annulled (Leliana's role in DA2 was really so minor that it wasn't necessary to make her be alive no matter what - Cassandra or someone else could just as easily have taken her place - plus, her explanation if she died in DAO was the worst handwave in the history of handwaves). Otherwise, the people who made the choices that resulted in those outcomes have every right to be angry.

That's just my opinion, but I think it's one that many share. It's not that we want those specific choices to be more important than any/all the others - we want them to be acknowledged somehow and not just handwaved/ignored.

Modifié par TheHawkeWhoFlies, 14 juin 2011 - 09:23 .