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Ask-A-BioWare - Older game Q&A?


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#276
Tpiom

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I'm a lot interested in the actual development behind the games... I read somewhere in the KotOR script (dev files) that Korriban was supposed to have a maze/tunnels connecting the tombs. Can anyone confirm/deny that? If it's true, do you have any specifics?

You made a map of Thedas in Dragon Age and the first game only covered Ferelden. I thought this was an interesting move... Who drew the map and did you have any inputs? Any cool stuff surrounding it? Did you first drew the map and then made up the stories (like the Orlais-Ferleden war) or the other way around?

Obviously, areas had to be cut for whatever reason in games. Sleyheron for instance in KotOR... Did it hurt to cut it - where cool ideas lost? Did you cut any areas in Dragon Age (so far I've only heard about the different Origins)

Who came up Taris' destruction? I thought it was a really interesting move... Even better than the twist in some ways.


When I hear certain people in your games, I'm often like, "Oh... what a voice!" or "I recognize this guy" and write down his name to look for in the credits later on, but usually to no avail. Almost all the non-main characters are listed as "additional voice actors" Do you have a list available somewhere (ideally for KotOR and DA:O)?

Also, I'm a big fan of your concept arts. You should take the time to share them and/or game documentation after release. I get that you aren't always allowed to talk about certain stuff but still. Who can enjoy them if they are locked in a vault? =]

Modifié par Tpiom, 15 janvier 2013 - 07:45 .


#277
Nameless one7

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I believe www.imdb.com has a lot of the voice actors for games listed there.

#278
Tpiom

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Nameless one7 wrote...

I believe www.imdb.com has a lot of the voice actors for games listed there.


They do... but not all and sometimes (rarely though) they are wrong.

#279
Puzzlewell

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Lukas Kristjanson wrote...
I can't narrow that to one. I suppose I could bookend them all by
calling out Jaheira and Aveline, because I like to think they went some
interesting places. But also Leliana. I didn't get to create her or
define her voice, but I did get to craft a contained story moment with
Leliana's Song that I found really satisfying.


I realize I'm nine months late in taking a look at this response but I just wanted to chime in on appreciation. Jaheira and Aveline are very beloved characters to me (and funny enough, on first starting DA2 I thought that Aveline reminded me a lot of Jaheira, nice to know why in a little way), so thank you for writing these two. Leliana's Song was also quite enjoyable, considering she is my favorite character out of DAO so getting the more fleshed out version of her backstory was interesting.

#280
Dragoonlordz

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I always wondered what individual developers from Bioware considered to be their favorite side-quest or companion style quest (non-main plot) were from games prior to the ME and DA franchise. From such ones as BG, Kotor and NwN... Hear so much complaining about the fluff nature of side-quests but to me they can enhance the enjoyment and there are some hidden gems of good ones over the years.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 17 janvier 2013 - 12:27 .


#281
Fast Jimmy

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I'll give this thread a poke because it is, hands down, one of the most fascinating I've seen here on the BSN.


What's the cafeteria/eating situation like in the Edmonton office? I've found you can tell a lot about a company by their eating facilities.


Also, probably more on topic... what type of differences do you find writing for DLC's versus writing for core game content? Obviously, length is going to be different, but is there also a different flavor for how everything is structured?

#282
Beerfish

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Not sure if it has changed but when the Dr's ran the place they'd have breakfast brought in every morning with muffins, fruit etc. They had a fridge just for ice cream and had their own brand of coffee ground for them.

#283
Fast Jimmy

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Beerfish wrote...

Not sure if it has changed but when the Dr's ran the place they'd have breakfast brought in every morning with muffins, fruit etc. They had a fridge just for ice cream and had their own brand of coffee ground for them.


Wow, are you serious? That's crazy. 

I've seen some of the Sprint Review tweet's showing a fully catered breakfast menu, but I thought that may have just been for the meeting. If they get something like that on an everyday basis, I can't imagine leaving. 

I'm pumped about just getting free coffee everyday from my work. 

#284
Lukas Kristjanson

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The thread, it liiiiiives.

I'll ask....what is the strangest inspiration you've gotten for something of past games? I recall reading about Dave's oddball inspiration off of a BBC show for HK-47.

CBC, not BBC . Arty-farty answer, No inspiration is strange if it takes you somewhere new. Newish, even. But I've taken elements from old tabletop games, sitcoms, oscar winners. Side plots have tiny bits of everything because they are moments.

I read somewhere in the KotOR script (dev files) that Korriban was supposed to have a maze/tunnels connecting the tombs.

The original narrative plan that Dave wrote assumed a more dungeon-like path. No specifics because it was never implimented, just bendy with more rooms, etc. An example of a design assumption that got lost somewhere. It happens, and it's expensive. No department wants that.

Who drew the (DA) map and did you have any inputs?

Dave sketched the original DA map on a scrap piece of paper. No one was more surprised than he when they actually used it as the base for the real thing. He positioned things according to some rough ideas of national conflicts, so I suppose proto-plots were concurrent with the proto-map. Both were later expanded and polished.

Obviously, areas had to be cut for whatever reason in games. Sleyheron for instance in KotOR... Did it hurt to cut it - where cool ideas lost? Did you cut any areas in Dragon Age (so far I've only heard about the different Origins)

Cuts always hurt, but they are necessary and you suck it up and shelve your precious word-babies for later use. Sometimes the idea is unique to the moment and gets lost, but more often it is simply worked into something else. Features like Interrupt came from dead things, as did some new conversation functionality you'll see in Inquisition.
In Origins we cut the Landsmeet. Then uncut it. Then cut it again. Then uncut it. Then cut it again and, obviously, uncut it once more. Somewhere, somehow, Mary just shivered. That was an example of continually weighing a BIG chop versus sudden leaps in process that freed up resources and people.

Who came up Taris' destruction?

Don't know. Probably James Ohlen, as whomping a city in someone else's IP takes some high-level bargaining. Even back then when pretty much all that existed in that time period were a few Dark Horse comics.

Do you have a list (of voice actors) available somewhere (ideally for KotOR and DA:O)

Not available, no. Some actors do dozens of small parts, maybe only one or two lines each, so I suppose "additional" is a necessary catch-all. But despite not getting the "name" characters, actors who can bust out tons of little roles are highly valued.

Also, I'm a big fan of your concept arts. You should take the time to share them and/or game documentation after release. I get that you aren't always allowed to talk about certain stuff but still. Who can enjoy them if they are locked in a vault?

I couldn't agree more. There are some crazy things that I wish we could show, but some are creeping out for DA with the World of Thedas lorebooks.

I always wondered what individual developers from Bioware considered to be their favorite side-quest or companion style quest (non-main plot) were from games prior to the ME and DA franchise. From such ones as BG, Kotor and NwN...

It wasn't one of mine... I don't think it was one of mine, maybe Dave's. In BG2. A young group of adventurers come to you with a story of a minor threat in some cave. You can tell them to take care of it for you. They come back with a harrowing tale of struggle and heroism, and having to cast *gasp* magic missile! You pay them. And then, like every group of adventurers ever, they take a shot at killing you. You turn into the Bhaalspawn and obliterate them. The game fades to black, a line says x group "reloads", and then, fade-up, everyone is alive again. They sheepishly take their money and run for the freaking hills.
Best. Plot. Ever.

For the most part I remember characters better than plots. Kang was a lot of fun. Sir Roderick Ponce von Fontlebottom THE Magnificent Bastard of course. Small things in BG2 were great, just because sheer volumn meant you had to try new things. Lilarcor was fun. Writing Minsc's answers for riddles. Oh, there was one jerk I did for BG1 where I had a ridiculous option the player could choose to rant at him because they were sick of fetch quests. Portalbendarwinden. Man, was I tired by that point. I also had a lot of fun writing the thief-only stuff with Narlen Darkwalk and Rededge. They spoke in "thieves' cant" sourced from the 1811 Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue. Obnoxious, I must have been a translator's nightmare.

What's the cafeteria/eating situation like in the Edmonton office?

Fruit and such in the mornings, bagged from the store, not laid out like a buffet or anything. Coffee machines through the day because NEED. Supper is brought in when there's crunch hours. That varies from "awesome" to "I'll bring my own." But it all beats the different-pizza-every-day for months during the BG days before Ray and Greg hired someone to make better life choices.

Also, probably more on topic... what type of differences do you find writing for DLC's versus writing for core game content?

Not really a functional difference, unless you have constraints like needing to slot into the main plot, or pass variables to it. Which, of course, you often do. But the tone is mainly different because you're in a different place as a designer. Sometimes you're just really tired and punchy because DLC is effort above and beyond the already monumental task of the main game, and all these puns just come out of nowhere and suddenly Varric is surrounded by ghastholes and whose fault is that really?

And sometimes it's a farewell, because you're likely never writing those characters again. Remember, we've been with these stories sometimes years longer than you guys. Can feel like putting down a pet.

Personally, I liked working on the self-contained stuff like Leliana's Song or (slightly less contained) Mark of the Assassin and Legacy. All let me expand on characters in ways that weren't available in the main game. MotA and L essentially had 5 new followers, because in addition to Tallis, the siblings were back, and I did Carver and Bethany's Act2/3 Templar/Warden/Circle mage writing very different. It let me answer some things in their voice. I also really liked branching the ending of Legacy with Act 1 still around mom, or the later memory of mom that can only speak how you remember her. Subtle things. Too subtle. Subtle can be a bad word.

Modifié par Lukas Kristjanson, 23 août 2013 - 08:47 .


#285
Beerfish

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Lukas, who was primarily responsible for Durlags Tower? It's one of the very best dungeon adventures ever design wise and story wise.

#286
Lukas Kristjanson

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Beerfish wrote...
Lukas, who was primarily responsible for Durlags Tower? It's one of the very best dungeon adventures ever design wise and story wise.


I don't remember who suggested the location, but we all agreed that we wanted to do a big "proper" dungeon, and Durlag's Tower was a legendary D&D spot that became the obvious choice because of location. And probably because we weren't mean enough to go full Tomb of Horrors on your butts. I was lead again, but Kevin Martens and Rob Bartel wrote on it as well. And yeah, most of the credit should go to art and tech design for that place. One of the most important lessons you can learn in game writing is get the hell out of the way. I want to integrate and write to support the art and gameplay, not dictate. And in turn, art and gameplay should support story inherently. And as always, I'll let you know when I actually learn how to reliably do any of this.

Modifié par Lukas Kristjanson, 23 août 2013 - 09:31 .


#287
Beerfish

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Our DnD team played tomb of horrors. I hated Gygax for a while there. lol

#288
OdanUrr

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I was wondering, who came up with the origin story for the Tuskens in KotoR?

#289
Lukas Kristjanson

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OdanUrr wrote...

I was wondering, who came up with the origin story for the Tuskens in KotoR?


I wrote Tatooine. I remember wrestling with "Sand People" a lot because "Tusken Raiders" came from an event 100 years or so before the movies, and we were 4000 years before. At the time, there was very little specific detail in the lore. There were various "source books" from art books and RPG materials, but they had nonsensical fire-and-forget mentions of things like Banthas introduced to Kashyyyk adapting to the canopy in about 3000 years, which from an evolutionary standpoint seems to require that they breed like fruit flies. There were massive gaps that didn't pay much attention to the cause-effect nature of history. On Kashyyyk I explained things with a giant radioactive terraformer run amuck. For the Sand People, lore had only broad strokes, so I threw the filter of human emotion on it and tried to draw some logical lines. They were trying very hard to stay apart from everyone else, which leant itself, of course, to the heresy that perhaps they aren't so apart.

I though it was an interesting twist. I also thought having HK47 actively translate was fun, a feeling not shared by audio who had to implement it.

Modifié par Lukas Kristjanson, 23 août 2013 - 08:46 .


#290
Fast Jimmy

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Personally, I liked working on the self-contained stuff like Leliana's Song or (slightly less contained) Mark of the Assassin and Legacy. All let me expand on characters in ways that weren't available in the main game. MotA and L essentially had 5 new followers, because in addition to Tallis, the siblings were back, and I did Carver and Bethany's Act2/3 Templar/Warden/Circle mage writing very different. It let me answer some things in their voice. I also really liked branching the ending of Legacy with Act 1 still around mom, or the later memory of mom that can only speak how you remember her. Subtle things. Too subtle. Subtle can be a bad word.


I find this incredibly fascinating.

Do you ever shoot the shirt with your ME writing counterparts (I'd have to imagine you would in some way)? Did you ever pick their brains on writing some of the ME3 DLC, and how that process felt for them after the way the ME3 endings panned out?

#291
OdanUrr

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Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

I was wondering, who came up with the origin story for the Tuskens in KotoR?


I wrote Tatooine. I remember wrestling with "Sand People" a lot because "Tusken Raiders" came from an event 100 years or so before the movies, and we were 4000 years before. At the time, there was very little specific detail in the lore. There were various "source books" from art books and RPG materials, but they had nonsensical fire-and-forget mentions of things like Banthas introduced to Kashyyyk adapting to the canopy in about 3000 years, which from an evolutionary standpoint seems to require that they breed like fruit flies. There were massive gaps that didn't pay much attention to the cause-effect nature of history. On Kashyyyk I explained things with a giant radioactive terraformer run amuck. For the Sand People, lore had only broad strokes, so I threw the filter of human emotion on it and tried to draw some logical lines. They were trying very hard to stay apart from everyone else, which leant itself, of course, to the heresy that perhaps they aren't so apart.

I though it was an interesting twist. I also thought having HK47 actively translate was fun, a feeling not shared by audio who had to implement it.


Well, kudos and thanks then! I thought it was a pretty engrossing tale in and of itself and I really wanted to scavenge around for any signs of that ancient civilization. Maybe if there's a KotoR 3 I could do just that?:)

#292
Lukas Kristjanson

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Do you ever shoot the shirt with your ME writing counterparts (I'd have to imagine you would in some way)? Did you ever pick their brains on writing some of the ME3 DLC, and how that process felt for them after the way the ME3 endings panned out?

Sure, but it was personal enough for me too, even if I wasn't on ME3. After all, I helped create and wrote many of those characters while on 1 and 2. And we're not worlds apart, Patrick sits behind me now on Inquisition. I'm not going to pick at that particular fuss, except to say that the entire game is "the end." The weave under the hood of ME3 is mind-boggling.


I thought it was a pretty engrossing tale in and of itself and I really wanted to scavenge around for any signs of that ancient civilization. Maybe if there's a KotoR 3 I could do just that?

If cost was your barrier, I really recommend giving SWtOR a try now that it's free to play. There's 8 sequels worth of content there and the project director was Lead Designer of the original KotOR. I especially like the non-force-user story arcs. My trooper is drifting dark and it feels good.

#293
OdanUrr

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Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

If cost was your barrier, I really recommend giving SWtOR a try now that it's free to play. There's 8 sequels worth of content there and the project director was Lead Designer of the original KotOR. I especially like the non-force-user story arcs. My trooper is drifting dark and it feels good.


Cost wasn't really a barrier to be honest. The problem was that I felt I was required to do a lot of grinding in order to advance a bit of story. Add to that the fact that I prefer playing solo most of the time and it can become quite tiresome to grind for the required XP.

#294
Elhanan

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OdanUrr wrote...

Cost wasn't really a barrier to be honest. The problem was that I felt I was required to do a lot of grinding in order to advance a bit of story. Add to that the fact that I prefer playing solo most of the time and it can become quite tiresome to grind for the required XP.


Have to disagree, at least how I understand the term grinding. I was able to create three 50th Lvls (ie; Sith Inquisitor, Bounty Hunter, Trooper), as well as start on a Jedi Knight, and never was made to feel that grinding was a needed part of the game. Sure there was some Kill X quests, but almost all of these were bonus XP sidequests added to the area you were already exploring; completely optional.

And I played it almost completely solo, including Flashpoints for storylines.

#295
OdanUrr

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Elhanan wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Cost wasn't really a barrier to be honest. The problem was that I felt I was required to do a lot of grinding in order to advance a bit of story. Add to that the fact that I prefer playing solo most of the time and it can become quite tiresome to grind for the required XP.


Have to disagree, at least how I understand the term grinding. I was able to create three 50th Lvls (ie; Sith Inquisitor, Bounty Hunter, Trooper), as well as start on a Jedi Knight, and never was made to feel that grinding was a needed part of the game. Sure there was some Kill X quests, but almost all of these were bonus XP sidequests added to the area you were already exploring; completely optional.

And I played it almost completely solo, including Flashpoints for storylines.


It's just that you get bored after having to kill enemies 90% of the time.

#296
Elhanan

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OdanUrr wrote...

It's just that you get bored after having to kill enemies 90% of the time.


Not me, though I died so frequently that I used the Med Transports like cabs; should have had a Med Center given my Legacy name.

Image IPB

#297
Fast Jimmy

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Lukas, can you tell us anything about the early, EARLY BG days? I mean, were they spent heavily with TSR folks, determining what could and could not be done? Were you all left to your own devices until you had a strong plot, and then TSR had to approve it?

Also, was the game planned from the start to have the main character be a Bhaalspawn, on the run from another Bhaalspawn? How far in advance was the pantheon of gods incorporated into the story?

Thanks again for keeping this thread on life support for years. It really is full of insanely cool information.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 24 août 2013 - 06:05 .


#298
Guest_simfamUP_*

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Who wrote Saemon Havarian? Because you should totally sue Disney for stealing your character xD

#299
In Exile

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Lukas Kristjanson wrote...
Personally, I liked working on the self-contained stuff like Leliana's Song or (slightly less contained) Mark of the Assassin and Legacy. All let me expand on characters in ways that weren't available in the main game. MotA and L essentially had 5 new followers, because in addition to Tallis, the siblings were back, and I did Carver and Bethany's Act2/3 Templar/Warden/Circle mage writing very different. It let me answer some things in their voice. I also really liked branching the ending of Legacy with Act 1 still around mom, or the later memory of mom that can only speak how you remember her. Subtle things. Too subtle. Subtle can be a bad word.


I just want to say that this scene was by far my favourite moment of DA2. I didn't even realize the dialogue was different until I decided to try Legacy before Act 3, and it was very, very interesting to see the shift. 

#300
Lukas Kristjanson

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Lukas, can you tell us anything about the early, EARLY BG days? I mean, were they spent heavily with TSR folks, determining what could and could not be done? Were you all left to your own devices until you had a strong plot, and then TSR had to approve it?

More the latter. When you license an IP, you're paying to use the setting, not to make the game with the IP owner. So they raised issues, but their concern was guarding the setting, not making BG. They rejected several plots, including an early version of the storyline for BG2, as being "too big." Which seemed more about not understanding the scale of the project. They were in a real Journey to the Rock mindset about the little game we were making. And to be fair, at the time, D&D was hot and RPGs were not. And given what had come before, how big could it be? Certainly not eight hundred thousand words.

And then we pretty much outsold all other D&D branded products combined, which probably scared the crap out of some people. And us.

Also, was the game planned from the start to have the main character be a Bhaalspawn, on the run from another Bhaalspawn? How far in advance was the pantheon of gods incorporated into the story?

The bhaalspawn angle was always a part of it, far as I know. Maybe not the super early concepts, but that would have been long before any production started. The D&D pantheon were always--and would always be--involved. In that world, divine power is manifested literally daily for any number of people. A big campaign, it's just inevitable their influence or agents are going to show up.

Who wrote Saemon Havarian? Because you should totally sue Disney for stealing your character xD

I wrote him in BG2. But I've no defensible claim to the template, he was specifically requested by James Ohlen as pure homage to a character in a Jack Vance novel. Dying Earth, but I can't remember exactly. Those books were a huge influence on James and Ray both, and one year we gave Ray a signed copy as a Christmas present. Aw, I just Googled and realized Vance died in May this year. Vancian magic is a term occasionally thrown around and for good reason. There is no Dungeons and Dragons, no Baldur's Gate, without inspiration from Jack Vance.

I just want to say that this scene was by far my favourite moment of DA2. I didn't even realize the dialogue was different until I decided to try Legacy before Act 3, and it was very, very interesting to see the shift.

Thanks. Jon Epp nailed the cine on that moment. Carries the whole thing.