17 réponses à ce sujet

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Through several play throughs of ME1, I've never really cared about 'optimized' builds. I tend to chose bonus powers to fit theme, while some optimization is inevitible (Specter Master Gear/Colossus and Preadator L-M-H armor/Savent tools and amps) mods are still pretty wide.

After my first game after selling my Tungs/Shred 7s without realizing there was no anti-organic/synthetics level 8+ and used Inferno 10s. Since then I've been keeping 7s and selling/gelling everything else, even 10s. I've done an insanity with VIIs and it didn't feel particularly harder then my very first Normal with inferno, so the question becomes:

Is one ammo mod more 'powerful' over others? This is for general use guns as HighEx ammo always finds it's way into my Sniper Rifles along with Scram Rails and I'm not changing that set up.

[Crackseed]

Haha - HighEx ammo + Sniper is basically ME1's Widow. Gotta love it.

I always tend to pick my ammo based on what weapons I'm using. I usually like to have Inferno on my AR, with Cryo/Sledgehammer on my Shottie. HighEx on the Sniper too [it's way too damn fun that way] and for pistol I'll usually keep a random ammo I want to goof off with there since I don't use my pistol much..

[kstarler]

On the higher difficulties, HE Ammo is really only useful for the physics, since the AoE won't do enough damage to insta-kill anyone (except maybe with Shotgun Carnage, which I've never tried). For max damage, Tungsten/Shredder V or higher will give better returns against single targets. However, I still like HE because it's a lot more fun to use, and plan to try it with Carnage at some point, since Carnage generates no heat, which means two HE shots in a row.

I'm actually in the middle of an ME1 play through right now (all the E3 ME3 stuff got me excited, so I'm running through both games again) and I'm finding it very tedious to swap ammo for the correct enemy type all the time (I'm playing on Hardcore in ME1, because Insanity is just tedious). Inferno/Polonium (and to a lesser extent Sledgehammer) are good "general" ammo mods in my experience. I like Sledgehammer for Insanity because it can knock most enemies to the ground, and keep them there, provided you maintain a good rate of fire on the target.

Honestly though, I don't see much difference even when using Tungsten (accidentally) against organic enemies, so I'm seriously thinking of just switching to Inferno/Sledgehammer once I start getting X mods.

Modifié par kstarler, 14 juin 2011 - 07:58 .

[Crackseed]

Haha, I'm doing the same K. I swore I'd never touch ME1 again due to how tedious the combat was, but I am having fun and trying to get my main canon Shep to 60 [lost the 60 a couple years back >_<] instead of just 50 and making a new Space Shep with Ash romance. Pinnacle Station was rather tedious but overall it's not as agonizing to run through again as I worried it would be. I'm just not stressing on perfect builds or 100% best optimization in favor of completionist for missions/all the choices I want.

I'm more worried about my main Soldier playthrough since I recall having to almost do 3 playthroughs to get from 1 to 60 total - I mean it's not ultra critical since the difference from importing a level 50 Shep to a 60 Shep is pretty minor, but I just want to have it all maxed out if possible.

Edit: *coughs* Sorry, drifted off topic there. I actually wasn't aware that Shredder/Tungsten were better for their specified enemy types. Good to know.

Modifié par crackseed, 14 juin 2011 - 08:05 .

[kstarler]

It's gonna be a long 9 months...

Anyway, I thought of something to add, which is to avoid Snowblind ammo on pistols/ARs like the plague. The reduction in RoF makes it so that, even with double rail mods, you'll only do something like 10 more damage than the base weapon damage before any mods/ammo. Proton is also pretty lousy on all weapons.

There was actually a good discussion on this very topic a week or two ago (here's the link: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/261/index/7475788). The Grey Ranger provides some number crunching using Spectre X Pistols and Snowblind rounds.

I'm actually interested to test whether an SR with heat sinks will do more DPS than an SR with double rails, since I don't think it's possible to one-shot enemies on Insanity, even with dual Rail Extension VII's and Tungsten/Shredder ammo. I'm thinking there might be better returns from avoiding the overheat wait (4.0 seconds with level X weapons, from what I read).

[Crackseed]

Yeah I avoid Snowblind rounds on anything with a good ROF. Usually keep it for my shotgun though I tend to like Sledgehammer there for the knockdown/poison when being up close.

[mcsupersport]

The sad thing about Explosive rounds is the max damage they increase is 29%, while tungsten/shredder add about 50% damage. The only advantage explosive ammo gives you is damaging more than one person per shot, and the fun of seeing them fly. In Insanity plays I actually found this annoying more than fun, because it didn't kill everyone and threw them all over which gave them time to reimmunity and made it hard to find them sometimes as in they fell down a cliff.

An Infiltrator with Scram Rail X, Frictionless X and using Shredder/Tungsten rounds can fire forever with Specter X sniper rifle. I personally think this gives faster killing power than explosives, because with it I can put 3 rounds downrange in the same time as explosives can one. With this setup you don't even have to take you finger off the trigger, just hold the button and every time it is ready to fire it will, which is handy against turrets and the like.

Modifié par mcsupersport, 15 juin 2011 - 01:19 .

[kstarler]

mcsupersport wrote...

An Infiltrator with Scram Rail X, Frictionless X and using Shredder/Tungsten rounds can fire forever with Specter X sniper rifle. I personally think this gives faster killing power than explosives, because with it I can put 3 rounds downrange in the same time as explosives can one. With this setup you don't even have to take you finger off the trigger, just hold the button and every time it is ready to fire it will, which is handy against turrets and the like.

Just for reference, Tungsten/Shedder VII give 40% against their corresponding target type.

I've been playing around with a Spectre X SR (Commando Soldier and max SR) and I'm inclined to agree that going with a Scram Rail/Frictionless Material and Tungsten/Shredder gives a better return in DPS, since the cooldown for an overheat is 4 seconds, and the SR can be fired 2 times in 4 seconds (1.67*2=3.34, reload time taken from the wiki). 2 shots in 4 seconds gives a much greater damage increase than the extra 25% using a dual Rail Extension VII setup (29%*2=58% - 26% for Scram X, -7% from Frictionless X).

Does anyone know of a source for how squad powers, weapon mods, and ammo factor into weapon damage? If it's all additive (like with ME2), then I'm seeing that the difference between Inferno X and Shredder/Tungsten VII is relatively small (less than 50 points) and thus it's probably not worth the effort to min/max with Shredder/Tungsten. However, if the percentages are applied differently, and ammo mods are applied to total damage after mods/abilities, then the difference would be considerably greater in favor of the specialized ammo mods.

[The Grey Ranger]

Here is how ME1 weapons and armor work

http://social.biowar...1/index/5026848

Note it is in the guide sticky at the top of the board.

As far as one shotting enemies, not gonna happen on insanity.  I've tried some experimentation (quite a while back, as in before it came out on pc) against husks (using shredder) with a spectre x sniper and a very solid commando infiltrator. IIRC it took three normal shots or one assassinate and one normal shot to kill a husk with a level 60 infilrator on insanity.

I find explosive to be situationally useful. It can sometimes damage enemies behind cover, and if you have a class that is non skilled in Sniper, you can load it and just shoot the floor near them.  That said if you're skilled in the weapon you're using it's better to load tungsten, shredder, cryo, incendiary/inferno, or even polonium.  The HE has kind of the same effect that snowblind does of really cutting into your rate of fire which really hurts your damage output on higher difficulties.

Modifié par The Grey Ranger, 15 juin 2011 - 03:26 .

[kstarler]

Thanks for the link Grey Ranger! Doing the calculations using a Spectre X SR with a Scram Rail X, Frictionless Material X, and Tungsten/Shredder VII will give an increase of about 80 total damage per shot over Inferno, though it's important to note that Inferno damage is applied over 5 seconds, so the difference in damage per shot is greater over multiple shots(140 damage for an SR).

Ultimately, it looks like using specific target ammo will likely result in a decrease in killing times regardless of the weapon used, though I'm still inclined to say it's easier to just set it up and forget it (with Inferno/Polonium/Sledgehammer), as I don't find even Insanity ME to be hard, just tedious (with the exception of the Engineer class, which can die WAY too easily without Barrier).

Modifié par kstarler, 15 juin 2011 - 05:40 .

[mcsupersport]

I generally switch my ammos, and give my squad a type each ie one gets poison and the other fire. The reason is I don't feel like switching among 3 characters and it also helps see when they are shooting into something so I can move the right one, especially when it is the back of my character making sniping harder!!!!!! One will flash green, the other red to tell the difference.

[Eurhetemec]

kstarler wrote...

Anyway, I thought of something to add, which is to avoid Snowblind ammo on pistols/ARs like the plague. The reduction in RoF makes it so that, even with double rail mods, you'll only do something like 10 more damage than the base weapon damage before any mods/ammo.

Does that hold with party members other than Shepard? Reason I ask is that in my current play-through I have Garrus toting a Spectre AR with Snowblind ammo and a couple of mods (I think at least one of the high-end heat sinks), and what I've seen is that he holds down the trigger and just never stops firing until  the enemy is dead. His ROF isn't that high but the continuous fire seems to be very effective because he never suddenly stops shooting unless he ducks into cover. I've literally seen him fire for minutes on end (where an enemy was in cover and he was being dim). Whereas Ash with her AR, which I have with some kind of high-damage ammo and one heat sink, one increase damage, frequently stops shooting. Sometimes at annoying moments.

Of course I'm probably missing something.

Modifié par Eurhetemec, 16 juin 2011 - 06:44 .

[mcsupersport]

Snowblind stinks on all. IF you give him a Specter X AR and Scram X/Frictionless X combo he will do the exact same ie fire forever like an autoturret. Snowblind because of the firespeed reduction totally kills dps.

[Eurhetemec]

mcsupersport wrote...

Snowblind stinks on all. IF you give him a Specter X AR and Scram X/Frictionless X combo he will do the exact same ie fire forever like an autoturret. Snowblind because of the firespeed reduction totally kills dps.

I don't have access to the X stuff yet, only on a first play-through and I don't think those appear until NG+, so I'll guess that'll wait. The best scram and frictionless I have are on Ashley and she's regularly stopping (though she does fire several-second bursts).

[mcsupersport]

You would actually get better utility by putting dual frictionless and a decent ammo, like schredder on him. The numbers come out to snowblind being like a stock gun with frictionless material which gives 5-8% bonus at higher levels, and nothing else. So if you double up frictionless and stack a 40% bonus in shredder you are better off.

[kstarler]

Something I have yet to figure out is, aside from enemy Sabotages, do squad mates overheat? It seems like I get the same RoF from Garrus (using SR) with dual rails and any given ammo as I do using lower heat mods.

[mcsupersport]

The times I have tried high heat mods on squad mates they switch guns. On AR they will stop shooting for a time as if to prevent overheating.

[kstarler]

I think I'll load up ME1 and see if I can observe a difference. I have noticed my squad mates changing weapons when entering new areas/at the beginning of combat, but never really during combat. To be honest, I never really pay much attention to what they're doing in ME1, because you can't hotkey their powers or monitor their cool downs in real time, so I usually just put them on auto and forget they're there.