222 réponses à ce sujet

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

Kid Buu wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

JosephDucreux wrote...

Kid Buu wrote...

Lol. Keep thinking that.

Wait a minute....... Did you just admit to making a new account after being banned? Or even in jeapordy of being banned? Thats bannable right there.

On a  side note, can I try and guess who you are? Melarche. I GOT IT.

Nope. Original account started with an 'A' (try guessing).

And I'll report you for being Quole, and you report me. Fair deal.

P.S. Mel is still not verboten, and he hasn't chalked up any warnings so far.

No reporting eachother pretty please.....we need you guys around. 

I thought you went to bed... or something. Glad your back though.

I ate a late dinner, I will be hitting the sack here soon though. I just had to pop back in to see what was going on. Darn BSN has me hooked. 

[Errationatus]

Now, now, kids - play nice.  I'd say "act like adults", but I'd be hard-pressed to find one sometimes.  

As to Tali's face?  According to Bioware, they have decided on that issue, and what she actually looks like.  No intimation as to whether they'll show us, however.  Personally, I don't care, and never did.  They can just follow the current business model and offer her face as a DLC scene that costs fifteen bucks.  Tali 'Zorah Horse Armor! Yay!  

Who honestly cares what she looks like?  Many, many people worship her without knowing. They didn't need to know. That's no small feat.  Her face revealed could be icing on the cake or the cake could be a lie.  Disappointment will come, regardless.

One or two other points:

 - Garrus is a cop. He has a cop's mentality.  It leaned more toward the 'bad cop" side of things (his desire to 'streamline' interrogations for one). Police training and military training are not the same thing.  However, Garrus may have acquired specific training when he first applied to the Spectres, way back when (a competant sniper, police or otherwise, is always a solid asset).  He has specific skills, that if not actual marine-level combat-oriented, would nevertheless not be out of place on the Normandy in the hunt for Saren.

 - Liara is, and this is a rather pointed point to make - not 20 years old.  She's over a hundred.  She's been digging more or less alone and defending herself for at least fifty years, according to her.

Let me stress this again: This is no small point.  Technically, she could have more combat experience than Shepard by mere dint of being an asari.  There is a huge trade in Prothean artifacts, so the game intimates.  That means pirates, bandits, corporate troops.  Fifty years of fighting and avoiding them is nothing to sneeze at.  Experience counts for one helluva lot.  She also interprets the Beacon vision, which leads to the Conduit, which leads to Saren's actual defeat, which on a scale of things is slightly more important than knowing how to hack a fecking geth.  Tali's info could have been uncovered any number of other ways, she was simply the most expedient and convenient way for Shepard (story-wise) to get it (and to be introduced into the story).  Sorry, fappas.

 - What kind of military training do quarians get, anyway?  Do quarian troopers have extra-armored suits?  Didn't see any. It would make sense.  It seems to me that any military training for quarians would emphasize suit discipline over pretty much everything else - or they'd have some serious power armor/bulky combat shells.  Oops.  They don't have those kinds of resources, do they?  Hmmmm.  War would be very suicidially stupid for quarians.  Hence the geth.  Oops, again.  How smart are the quarians supposed to be, again?

Also, why, I wonder, is teenage Tali flinging explosives around in an enclosed alley on a space station?  One, explosives create shrapnel.  Two, quarians would doubtless be instilled from birth about ship integrity and what one should and shouldn't do in a completely contained environment like a ship or space station.  Like flinging explosives about.  Either she's kinda stupid for a quarian, or she was written poorly.

Maybe she has commando-type training, you could counter.  Not far-fetched, but unlikely.  She is first and foremost an engineer.  Her job is ship maintenance and upkeep.  Fabrication and design as well, most likely, given her apparent knowledge.  However, ME2 depicted her having no skill in commando anything.  

Her squad on Freedom's Progress had zero respect for her.  Whether she had effective plans for finding Veetor is a moot point.  They failed because she did not have the support of her team. That they died is her fault, plans or not. The great hacker also ran upon first seeing the YMIR.  Bad form, Tali.  Bad form.

On Haestrom she was in overall command. Reegar says so. However, Shepard and two others managed to not only slaughter the geth and a Colossus, but also rescue Kal-Reegar - who was supposed to have actual combat training (which apparently skipped the reconnaissance part of the training) as a marine himself.  These people are planning a war against the geth?  Holy sh!t.  They won't last ten minutes if Tali and Reegar are any standard.  Simply put, if Shepard didn't constantly save her, she'd have long since been dead.  Quarian toast. Meat in a suit. Geth chow. This is not a debatable point.  It's a simple fact going by the game itself.  Too bad, but there it is.

Sheesh.  Making her an admiral only means she can kill entire shiploads of quarians ineptly.  Sad but true.

 - Wrex is over 1500 years old and one of the last krogan battlemasters.  Enough said.

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 21 janvier 2012 - 03:19 .

[Ron87]

JakeMacDon wrote...


 - Garrus is a cop. He has a cop's mentality.  It leaned more toward the 'bad cop" side of things (his desire to 'streamline' interrogations for one). Police training and military training are not the same thing.  However, Garrus may have acquired specific training when he first applied to the Spectres, way back when (a competant sniper, police or otherwise, is always a solid asset).  He has specific skills, that if not actual marine-level combat-oriented, would nevertheless not be out of place on the Normandy in the hunt for Saren.

 - Liara is, and this is a rather pointed point to make - not 20 years old.  She's over a hundred.  She's been digging more or less alone and defending herself for at least fifty years, according to her.

Let me stress this again: This is no small point.  Technically, she could have more combat experience than Shepard by mere dint of being an asari.  There is a huge trade in Prothean artifacts, so the game intimates.  That means pirates, bandits, corporate troops.  Fifty years of fighting and avoiding them is nothing to sneeze at.  Experience counts for one helluva lot.  She also interprets the Beacon vision, which leads to the Conduit, which leads to Saren's actual defeat, which on a scale of things is slightly more important than knowing how to hack a fecking geth.  Tali's info could have been uncovered any number of other ways, she was simply the most expedient and convenient way for Shepard (story-wise) to get it (and to be introduced into the story).  Sorry, fappas.

 - What kind of military training do quarians get, anyway?  Do quarian troopers have extra-armored suits?  Didn't see any. It would make sense.  It seems to me that any military training for quarians would emphasize suit discipline over pretty much everything else - or they'd have some serious power armor/bulky combat shells.  Oops.  They don't have those kinds of resources, do they?  Hmmmm.  War would be very suicidially stupid for quarians.  Hence the geth.  Oops, again.  How smart are the quarians supposed to be, again?

Also, why, I wonder, is teenage Tali flinging explosives around in an enclosed alley on a space station?  One, explosives create shrapnel.  Two, quarians would doubtless be instilled from birth about ship integrity and what one should and shouldn't do in a completely contained environment like a ship or space station.  Like flinging explosives about.  Either she's kinda stupid for a quarian, or she was written poorly.

Maybe she has commando-type training, you could counter.  Not far-fetched, but unlikely.  She is first and foremost an engineer.  Her job is ship maintenance and upkeep.  Fabrication and design as well, most likely, given her apparent knowledge.  However, ME2 depicted her having no skill in commando anything.  

Her squad on Freedom's Progress had zero respect for her.  Whether she had effective plans for finding Veetor is a moot point.  They failed because she did not have the support of her team. That they died is her fault, plans or not. The great hacker also ran upon first seeing the YMIR.  Bad form, Tali.  Bad form.

On Haestrom she was in overall command. Reegar says so. However, Shepard and two others managed to not only slaughter the geth and a Colossus, but also rescue Kal-Reegar - who was supposed to have actual combat training (which apparently skipped the reconnaissance part of the training) as a marine himself.  These people are planning a war against the geth?  Holy sh!t.  They won't last ten minutes if Tali and Reegar are any standard.  Simply put, if Shepard didn't constantly save her, she'd have long since been dead.  Quarian toast. Meat in a suit. Geth chow. This is not a debatable point.  It's a simple fact going by the game itself.  Too bad, but there it is.

Sheesh.  Making her an admiral only means she can kill entire shiploads of quarians ineptly.  Sad but true.

 - Wrex is over 1500 years old and one of the last krogan battlemasters.  Enough said.

Despite me being a Tali fan, I agree that it doesn't make much logical sense for Tali to be on the frontlines. If this were a realistic scenario, she would be a chief engineer and advisor on tech and the Geth at best.

The reason this does not bother me, or most other people, is that this is hardly a realistic scenario. With Liara, despite her being relatively old doesn't automatically mean that she has extensive combat experience. Maybe some, but not much as it isn't pointed out. Also, Mordin and Kasumi in ME2 don't have any practical reason to join combat either. Furthermore, most RPGs and fantasy or sci-fi based games tend to have playable characters that don't make sense in a combat-scenario, but we have them anyway because they add to the gameplay and fun-factor.

As for your other points...

Yes, Tali is not a brilliant leader, but then again we haven't yet seen a good Quarian leader, so I would not pour this on Tali alone. You could say she was really unlucky in those situations. And somewhat incompetent as a leader. Quarians suck at war and could get their asses handed to them, unless they come up with some brilliant plan. But I think this actually adds to Tali's character.

The hallway scene in ME1 was in a completely enclosed hallway. And Shepard can throw grenades too. So this is a pointless gripe.

Anyway, good, valid points. Good discussion.

And yes, the face isn't that important.

[Goldendroid]

JosephDucreux wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

You say this, yet still provide nothing, while I have. I've provided several scenarios, sources, and reasons behind her being on the squad, her legitimacy in staying there, and counterpoints to your staggeringly blind accusations. On the other hand, you casually wave them away without providing anything concrete other than your obvious disagreement.

I have provided several compelling reasons that actually make sense, but you dismiss them all as just disagreement. Just because she has intel on Saren, is a good grease monkey, and can fight off a bunch of street thugs doesn't mean she's able to take on geth. And she's a civilian who would NEVER be allowed anywhere near a theatre of ops no matter what year. IRL she would've NEVER been allowed onto the battlefield because she's a civilian, NOT a combatant. Yet you convieniently ignore all that and pin it on me instead. Oh the stupidly blind hypocrisy you're churning out here is staggering.

Street thugs?? If I remember correctly, those were either assassins hired by the shadow broker himself, or  hired by Saren. if somebody had utmost proof I was conspiring with the geth to overthrow the heart of the galactic government... I damn sure will hire at least above average assassins.

Sure, I romanced Tali, but I just provided a proper source. You are making assumptions that she could not fight the geth, yet canonically in the video games (the original sources of any lore from Mass Effect related issues), she very evidently does fight them effectively. As the game is a representation of life in the Mass Effect Universe, she obviously can fight. Furthermore, the nickname "empress of overkill" did not just come with her birth certificate or the Quarian equivalent. It indeed came from her proficiency in combat in Mass Effect 1 no less.

Grease Monkey indeed...

[Errationatus]

Ron87 wrote...

Despite me being a Tali fan, I agree that it doesn't make much logical sense for Tali to be on the frontlines. If this were a realistic scenario, she would be a chief engineer and advisor on tech and the Geth at best.

 

Pretty much.  Despite how it may look from time to time, I am also a Tali fan, more or less.  I'm just not a blind one.

 
The reason this does not bother me, or most other people, is that this is hardly a realistic scenario. With Liara, despite her being relatively old doesn't automatically mean that she has extensive combat experience.

 

True, but fifty years is at least twenty more than anyone else individually on the Normandy.  That's plenty of time to pick up skills.  At least thirty years more time than say... Tali.

 
Maybe some, but not much as it isn't pointed out. Also, Mordin and Kasumi in ME2 don't have any practical reason to join combat either.  

 

True, and both would rather not, which is why I personally don't take them anywhere except their particular missions. Both are bullet sponges, and Kasumi doesn't have the bleed'n sense to stay still for five minutes at a time.  *rolls eyes*.  I'm not fifteen, I don't need frigg'n eye candy!  Medigel don't grow on trees, y'know!

 
Furthermore, most RPGs and fantasy or sci-fi based games tend to have playable characters that don't make sense in a combat-scenario, but we have them anyway because they add to the gameplay and fun-factor.

 

Which, exactly?  Just off the top of my head, both DA:O and DA2 consisted of characters with both the skill and experience for combat and no one seemed extraneous or fresh-faced to said combat... well, except your character. But that's a given. Hell, even the damn dog had more combat experience than Tali does, however.

 
As for your other points...

Yes, Tali is not a brilliant leader, but then again we haven't yet seen a good Quarian leader, so I would not pour this on Tali alone.

 

I don't believe I did.  It's no wonder they lost the Morning War, and pretty much every encounter with them since. Seems kinda endemic to the race, really.

 
You could say she was really unlucky in those situations. And somewhat incompetent as a leader. Quarians suck at war and could get their asses handed to them, unless they come up with some brilliant plan. But I think this actually adds to Tali's character.

 

"Unlucky" is an odd way to say "suicidal incompentance".  Which, I fear, is not a trait I tend to find endearing myself, and no amount of "cute" hand-wringing would compensate me for it.  I won't even get into how much of a turn-off "I could die if you even look at my Taliboobies!" truly is.  It's not because of her immunodeficiency, just the constant reminder of it over and over from her just annoys the sh!t outta me.  

It's hard to maintain the flow of ShepMojo if I'm continually told, "remember, that'll potentially kill me,  That too.  Oh, and that.  That.  This.  That thing, and those other things will give me much, much mucus in the morning.  Sorry, that causes hyperhives.  That makes me itch like three sets of krogan testicles.  Sorry about the laminate suit you have to wear..."

Pass.  I admit it, I'm just not that devoted. Or patient.

 
The hallway scene in ME1 was in a completely enclosed hallway. And Shepard can throw grenades too. So this is a pointless gripe.

 

Not hardly.  Any experienced - and non-retarded - space traveller knows that any enclosed environment - like a space ship or space station is just that: enclosed.  I don't care what TV or the movies do, because they haven't got a clue, but you do not smoke on a spacecraft, you do not barbeque on a spacecraft, you do not - Dead Space-like - have fecking candles everywhere!  

Space craft and space stations are - and I'm going to bold this to make it as unambiguous as possible:  Are In Space. SPAAAACE.  An experienced space traveller reminds himself that he is on a space station IN SPAAAACE,  and there really are no isolated areas.  He does this so he doesn't do anything stupid and get himself and many others killed.  Being in space and all.  Even a station as big as the Citadel must have prohibitions against explosives being dropped everywhere.  How many power conduits, electrical conduits, water supplies, coolant pipes, etc, etc, may be under the floors, ceilings and walls?  

Someone who has spent her entire life on a spaceship should know better.

Yet - boom -Taligrenade up the salarian wazoo.  That's not just stupid, it's dangerously stupid.  And it's lazy writing.

 
Anyway, good, valid points. Good discussion.

 

Thanks.

 
And yes, the face isn't that important.

Only inasmuch as the outrage it will engender. 

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 21 janvier 2012 - 07:16 .

[Ron87]

JakeMacDon wrote...

 
Furthermore, most RPGs and fantasy or sci-fi based games tend to have playable characters that don't make sense in a combat-scenario, but we have them anyway because they add to the gameplay and fun-factor.

 

Which, exactly?  Just off the top of my head, both DA:O and DA2 consisted of characters with both the skill and experience for combat and no one seemed extraneous or fresh-faced to said combat... well, except your character. But that's a given. Hell, even the damn dog had more combat experience than Tali does, however

 

"Unlucky" is an odd way to say "suicidal incompentance".  Which, I fear, is not a trait I tend to find endearing myself, and no amount of "cute" hand-wringing would compensate me for it.  I won't even get into how much of a turn-off "I could die if you even look at my Taliboobies!" truly is.  It's not because of her immunodeficiency, just the constant reminder of it over and over from her just annoys the sh!t outta me.  

It's hard to maintain the flow of ShepMojo if I'm continually told, "remember, that'll potentially kill me,  That too.  Oh, and that.  That.  This.  That thing, and those other things will give me much, much mucus in the morning.  Sorry, that causes hyperhives.  That makes me itch like three sets of krogan testicles.  Sorry about the laminate suit you have to wear..."

Pass.  I admit it, I'm just not that devoted. Or patient.

Examples of RPGs with battle incompetent squaddies...

I don't play that many WRPGs, but as far as I know, quite often in those the player character is a complete nobody who just happens to save the world. Not always, though. Also, several characters in almost ANY JRPG. Even the good ones. Any Final Fantasy, the Persona series, you name it. Half Life 2 also has Gordon Freeman and Alyx, who are relatable to Tali.

No need to explain why you don't want to romance Tali. The reasons not to should be obvious, as well as those in favour. Anyone who fails to see this is a doofus=]. Glad you still appreciate the character to an extent. To me the character itself is the most important thing and her loyalty mission is her high point so far. The romance is merely an interesting and gripping addition.

Modifié par Ron87, 21 janvier 2012 - 07:48 .

[Errationatus]

Ron87 wrote...

Examples of RPGs with battle incompetent squaddies...

I don't play that many WRPGs, but as far as I know, quite often in those the player character is a complete nobody who just happens to save the world. Not always, though. Also, several characters in almost ANY JRPG. Even the good ones. Any Final Fantasy, the Persona series, you name it. Half Life 2 also has Gordon Freeman and Alyx, who are relatable to Tali.

 

Ah.  I'm not an RPG fan as a rule (unless you mean "Rocket Propelled Grenade", then I don't mind so much.).  Does Diablo count?

 
No need to explain why you don't want to romance Tali.

 

Oh, but I did romance her.  At least three times out of some twenty-odd playthroughs.  She's a sweetheart, but I just couldn't do it on an emotional level.  It was too much like doing my best friend's little sister. However, if I spend a hundred bucks on a game, I get every last nuance out of it I bloody can.   

 
The reasons not to should be obvious, as well as those in favour. Anyone who fails to see this is a doofus=]. Glad you still appreciate the character to an extent.  

 

Absolutely.  She's a  fine character, but she has far too many fanatics, unique to her character, and not enough "regular" fans -  and fanatics ruin everything.

 
To me the character itself is the most important thing and her loyalty mission is her high point so far. The romance is merely an interesting and gripping addition.

Of all of the boy-girl (me being a old boy) relations, I prefered them in order of Samara, Jack, Liara, and down from there.  FemShep gets the short end of the stick and that needs to change. Once around for her in my playthroughs with boys.  Every other time - Liara.  It was as close as I could get to something sincere for her.

[Ron87]

JakeMacDon wrote...

Ron87 wrote...

Examples of RPGs with battle incompetent squaddies...

I don't play that many WRPGs, but as far as I know, quite often in those the player character is a complete nobody who just happens to save the world. Not always, though. Also, several characters in almost ANY JRPG. Even the good ones. Any Final Fantasy, the Persona series, you name it. Half Life 2 also has Gordon Freeman and Alyx, who are relatable to Tali.

 

Ah.  I'm not an RPG fan as a rule (unless you mean "Rocket Propelled Grenade", then I don't mind so much.).  Does Diablo count?

 
No need to explain why you don't want to romance Tali.

 

Oh, but I did romance her.  At least three times out of some twenty-odd playthroughs.  She's a sweetheart, but I just couldn't do it on an emotional level.  It was too much like doing my best friend's little sister. However, if I spend a hundred bucks on a game, I get every last nuance out of it I bloody can.   

 
The reasons not to should be obvious, as well as those in favour. Anyone who fails to see this is a doofus=]. Glad you still appreciate the character to an extent.  

 

Absolutely.  She's a  fine character, but she has far too many fanatics, unique to her character, and not enough "regular" fans -  and fanatics ruin everything.

 
To me the character itself is the most important thing and her loyalty mission is her high point so far. The romance is merely an interesting and gripping addition.

Of all of the boy-girl (me being a old boy) relations, I prefered them in order of Samara, Jack, Liara, and down from there.  FemShep gets the short end of the stick and that needs to change. Once around for her in my playthroughs with boys.  Every other time - Liara.  It was as close as I could get to something sincere for her.

I feel sorry for you:blush:. Regrettable as it may be, the character of Tali DID make a lasting impression on many people here (me included). There's not much we can do about it, as being silent tends to be difficult among a crowd this large.

[Errationatus]

Ron87 wrote...

I feel sorry for you:blush:.

 

I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm cool with it.  It just makes it hard to talk critically about her without someone drooling and/or demanding obedience to the Sacred Tali.  Bog forbid you point out a flaw!  They will huntcha and they will cutcha.

 
Regrettable as it may be, the character of Tali DID make a lasting impression on many people here (me included).

 

Tali leaving the impression is not regrettable.  The at-times uber-creepy jamboree certainly can be.

 There's not much we can do about it, as being silent tends to be difficult among a crowd this large.

Well, it's kinda how Christians and Muslims get a bad rap - the fanatics yell too loud and put on their clown makeup and everyone ignores the sane and give the cretins all the face time. The sane stay silent, which they probably shouldn't.  It's up to the sane Talifans to save her from being slimed with too much Taliloveslobber.

[t3HPrO]

JakeMacDon wrote...

I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm cool with it.  It just makes it hard to talk critically about her without someone drooling and/or demanding obedience to the Sacred Tali.  Bog forbid you point out a flaw!  They will huntcha and they will cutcha.

Tali leaving the impression is not regrettable.  The at-times uber-creepy jamboree certainly can be.

Well, it's kinda how Christians and Muslims get a bad rap - the fanatics yell too loud and put on their clown makeup and everyone ignores the sane and give the cretins all the face time. The sane stay silent, which they probably shouldn't.  It's up to the sane Talifans to save her from being slimed with too much Taliloveslobber.

So true. Whenever someone says something derogatory but true about Tali, the reaction is like that of a hardline Taliban Muslim upon seeing a Jew. Instant flamewar and suicide bombings and death threats and-yeah, it goes on and on. Sure, I personally know a few sane Talifans (Sergius, Calinstel, DarkDanny, Dilandau), but the rest are the terrorist type Talifans. Can't disagree with them without them wailing for a mod to swing the banhammer because they can't beat your argument.

[Not the Droid]

Whats this thread about??

No I do not need to see her face and I like the character Alot.

Also (kicking the dead horse) Jake yer logic is right on the grenade but the setting for it wrong the fiction part of science fiction bites ya in the butt. As well you shoot yer guns in said enclosed space alot. Could be that in ship/station combat flettechet type ammo used (ceramics and plastics) that do wonders on soft tissue but wont hull breach. (unfortunatly you would think well armor would stop this uhh ya it would i suppose... grr give me a break Im not a writter)
(err also thats not my idea many space roleplay games reason it this way)

just stuff your supposed to overlook as its a game

[Indigo the Cat]

I think that if they do reveal Tali'Zorah vas Normandy's face in ME3, they had better only do it at the pinnacle of her relationship with Sheperd towards the end of the game, and only if he/she has been faithful to her.

However, I think that they shouldn't reveal it to us.  Or maybe at most, just a little bit.  The idea of mystery and intrigue is fun with Tali, but most important, what her romantic archetype stands for is that she's the awkward nerd-girl, and despite the fact that she's different, and most "regular" people wouldn't find her beautiful, her relationship with Sheperd transcended her appearance.  (Remember, most of the galaxy harbors at least some racism against the Quarians, save for that one sleazy turian on Ilium who kept hitting on the quarian who just broke up with her last boyfriend.)

I don't know if BioWare meant to have that hidden meaning behind her romance option, but it's definitely there. 

[Ron87]

JakeMacDon wrote...

Ron87 wrote...

I feel sorry for you:blush:.

 

I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm cool with it.  It just makes it hard to talk critically about her without someone drooling and/or demanding obedience to the Sacred Tali.  Bog forbid you point out a flaw!  They will huntcha and they will cutcha.

 
Regrettable as it may be, the character of Tali DID make a lasting impression on many people here (me included).

 

Tali leaving the impression is not regrettable.  The at-times uber-creepy jamboree certainly can be.

 There's not much we can do about it, as being silent tends to be difficult among a crowd this large.

Well, it's kinda how Christians and Muslims get a bad rap - the fanatics yell too loud and put on their clown makeup and everyone ignores the sane and give the cretins all the face time. The sane stay silent, which they probably shouldn't.  It's up to the sane Talifans to save her from being slimed with too much Taliloveslobber.

Indeed. If someone has a well-placed argument with good points to back it up (like you did), then that point should be respected, even if one disagrees on a personal level.

Fortunately I'm quite sure Tali's character in ME3 will not be negatively affected by the fans. Even so, her reputation in the eyes of some fans has turned sour due to certain Talifans (and also due to certain choices made by Bioware), and yes, it IS the job of us sane Talifans to get the situation under control:police:.

Still, mindless hate towards us should not be tolerated, but not all hate is mindless;).

[Ron87]

Indigo the Cat wrote...

I think that if they do reveal Tali'Zorah vas Normandy's face in ME3, they had better only do it at the pinnacle of her relationship with Sheperd towards the end of the game, and only if he/she has been faithful to her.

However, I think that they shouldn't reveal it to us.  Or maybe at most, just a little bit.  The idea of mystery and intrigue is fun with Tali, but most important, what her romantic archetype stands for is that she's the awkward nerd-girl, and despite the fact that she's different, and most "regular" people wouldn't find her beautiful, her relationship with Sheperd transcended her appearance.  (Remember, most of the galaxy harbors at least some racism against the Quarians, save for that one sleazy turian on Ilium who kept hitting on the quarian who just broke up with her last boyfriend.)

I don't know if BioWare meant to have that hidden meaning behind her romance option, but it's definitely there. 

It's definitely there and that's what make the romance interesting from a storytelling perspective:D.

And if they have no proper reason to show the face, then they should not show it.

[Errationatus]

t3HPrO wrote...

So true. Whenever someone says something derogatory but true about Tali, the reaction is like that of a hardline Taliban Muslim upon seeing a Jew. Instant flamewar and suicide bombings and death threats and-yeah, it goes on and on. Sure, I personally know a few sane Talifans (Sergius, Calinstel, DarkDanny, Dilandau), but the rest are the terrorist type Talifans. Can't disagree with them without them wailing for a mod to swing the banhammer because they can't beat your argument.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.  Don't start swinging if you're just gonna cry for mom when your butt starts getting whupped.  Then you deserve a fist in the head.  Friggin' cowards.

[Errationatus]

Not the Droid wrote...

Whats this thread about??

 

The desire to see Tali's face.  It's had its tangets (I should know, I took it there), but it's generally stayed on topic.  So far, if I do say so myself, it's been sane discussion with sane people.  Rather refreshing, actually, especially on BSN.  

 
No I do not need to see her face and I like the character Alot.

Also (kicking the dead horse) Jake yer logic is right on the grenade but the setting for it wrong the fiction part of science fiction bites ya in the butt. As well you shoot yer guns in said enclosed space alot. Could be that in ship/station combat flettechet type ammo used (ceramics and plastics) that do wonders on soft tissue but wont hull breach. (unfortunatly you would think well armor would stop this uhh ya it would i suppose... grr give me a break Im not a writter)

 

No worries, good point.  It's a perfectly reasonable assumption to assume that they armor - as it were - major parts of the station, just in case.  That's not my only gripe with the Citadel.  The Reapers did a helluva job, all that open space and near-limitless energy generation.  It just pushes credibility, but only with nitpickers like me, I guess.

 
(err also thats not my idea many space roleplay games reason it this way)

just stuff your supposed to overlook as its a game

Usually I do.  But conveniently ignoring logic and sense for the sake of drama is just bad storytelling and lazy writing.  It would have been far more tense if Tali had to shut those fellas down like an engineer (are there combat engineers?  That would make more sense for her) instead of a friggin' commando.  There's no excuse for shoddy writing - unless you think your fans are stupid.

[Errationatus]

Indigo the Cat wrote...

I think that if they do reveal Tali'Zorah vas Normandy's face in ME3, they had better only do it at the pinnacle of her relationship with Sheperd towards the end of the game, and only if he/she has been faithful to her.

However, I think that they shouldn't reveal it to us.  Or maybe at most, just a little bit.  The idea of mystery and intrigue is fun with Tali, but most important, what her romantic archetype stands for is that she's the awkward nerd-girl, and despite the fact that she's different, and most "regular" people wouldn't find her beautiful, her relationship with Sheperd transcended her appearance.  (Remember, most of the galaxy harbors at least some racism against the Quarians, save for that one sleazy turian on Ilium who kept hitting on the quarian who just broke up with her last boyfriend.)

I don't know if BioWare meant to have that hidden meaning behind her romance option, but it's definitely there. 

It's more fear of the geth smearing the quarians's good name, I think.  

As to Tali's Face Reveal, I think they should do it like this:

It's the end of her story arc, she and Shep are kicking back in the big relax after the Reaper-whupp'n and it's getting all hearts and flowers time.  She coos, he grins like a maniac, and turns the lights down.  She stops him at half-illumination, and bows her head. We hear the seals of her mask release.  (Was it just me or was her faceplate waaay too easy to remove in ME2?)  We are looking straight at her as she raises her head.  Lit properly, we just get a glimpse of her bare face in the soft shadows of her hood.  She smiles - which we can see in closeup, but only her smile - and moves out of frame. Happy times for Shep!

After a month of vid captures and intense (oft-times frothy) scrutiny, the fans can piece together her face for themselves.  Those of us who don't care or don't want to see it just get the glimpse, but those who do get to have fun seeing just how much detail they can pull from that soft-shadowed half-face and smile.

That would work, I think.  I'd enjoy that.

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 22 janvier 2012 - 01:31 .

[Errationatus]

Ron87 wrote...

Indeed. If someone has a well-placed argument with good points to back it up (like you did), then that point should be respected, even if one disagrees on a personal level.

 

One of the sure signs of a mature, thinking adult.

 
Fortunately I'm quite sure Tali's character in ME3 will not be negatively affected by the fans. Even so, her reputation in the eyes of some fans has turned sour due to certain Talifans (and also due to certain choices made by Bioware), and yes, it IS the job of us sane Talifans to get the situation under control:police:.

 

Indeed it is.

 
Still, mindless hate towards us should not be tolerated, but not all hate is mindless;).

I`ve always believed that hate is the exclusive domain of the uneducated, children and the fanatically religious. Reasonable people don`t hate, and they certainly don`t hate something as ultimately meaningless as a fictional character.  Personally I try to argue the argument put forward.  I never make it personal first, if you follow me.  One of the more underhanded ways of getting around that is to accuse the other (in the case of the Tali thread, as an example) that hating Tali is the same as hating the person defending her.  This is, of course, complete bullsh!t, but you`d be surprised how often it gets used and how often it works.

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 22 janvier 2012 - 01:32 .

[Ron87]

JakeMacDon wrote...

Ron87 wrote...

Indeed. If someone has a well-placed argument with good points to back it up (like you did), then that point should be respected, even if one disagrees on a personal level.

 

One of the sure signs of a mature, thinking adult.

 
Fortunately I'm quite sure Tali's character in ME3 will not be negatively affected by the fans. Even so, her reputation in the eyes of some fans has turned sour due to certain Talifans (and also due to certain choices made by Bioware), and yes, it IS the job of us sane Talifans to get the situation under control:police:.

 

Indeed it is.

 
Still, mindless hate towards us should not be tolerated, but not all hate is mindless;).

I`ve always believed that hate is the exclusive domain of the uneducated, children and the fanatically religious. Reasonable people don`t hate, and they certainly don`t hate something as ultimately meaningless as a fictional character.  Personally I try to argue the argument put forward.  I never make it personal first, if you follow me.  One of the more underhanded ways of getting around that is to accuse the other (in the case of the Tali thread, as an example) that hating Tali is the same as hating the person defending her.  This is, of course, complete bullsh!t, but you`d be surprised how often it gets used and how often it works.

Good point again, good Sir!

[t3HPrO]

TankingTick wrote...

You're despicable and I'm putting you on ignore.

Comparing Talimancers with Taliban terrorists/hardliners is a gross insult to all terrorists.

Terrorists have families. They work for a living, or at least try to. They can stand up unassisted and walk with relative ease. They have clear goals in life and don't leech state welfare. And while most of them haven't tried, I can bet a terrorist could flip a burger successfully without it landing on the floor.

Stop insulting terrorists. Cthulhu42, Quole Boo and Sally with Mass are nowhere near that standard.

You sir, are a true hero.