330 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarevok Synder]

Crimson_Rose07 wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

I couldn't care less if Fem-Shep is on the box or not. Style, not substance. I've seen this marketing strategy before, DA2. There was a good reason they went with style, the game had no substance. Now I'm seeing the same thing with ME3. This has me a little concerned. I don't consider sticking a picture on the box, which will cost them nothing anyway, listening. If that's good enough for you then you're easily pleased. Do you really think anybody will care about that if the game turns out to be a soulless shooter?

From what I've been seeing, you're basing this off one game DA2. While there were/are many problems w/ DA2 it's only one of Bioware's games. They took a risk w/ several things w/ DA2, and many were not sucessful, they recognize that, but Bioware has consistently said that they are willing to push the envelope in hopes of moving forward and making better and newer types of games. Like many, I would say that Bioware has a good track record for making great games. Yes, again DA2 flopped in a lot of areas, but it was one game and they have been working to fix many of the problems (the ones they can at least...can't change story arc now). Besides, the writers as well as many of members of the DA2 team are not part of the ME team. ME has put out 2 great games...their track record is good.

I think that basing what the quality of the game will be like on how much they advertise the art on the CE box this early on is bit premature. Give them a chance. I think this is getting blown way out of proportion. 

I don't think it is. They are all under the control of EA and they want maximum profit. They care little for quality. The marketing campaign is exactly the same as with DA2, and that is setting alarm bells ringing in my head. It's all the E3 marketing not just the meaningless box, just a lot more of "press a buhon, somthin awesome hasta happen." They didn't take a risk, they made cuts and shipped it out in a sorry state, and hoping people wouldn't notice the quality drop. It didn't work.

BTW: ME2 for me at least, felt soulless, so I don't consider it a great game either. It was average in my opinion.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 15 juin 2011 - 06:32 .

[Sarevok Synder]

Ottemis wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...
He's supposed to be marketing a game, not box art.

Box art is marketting, so are posters, trailers. Pretty much everything announced. 

Really? Who knew!

Way to miss my point.

[brain_damage]

If I may be so bold as to put it eloquently: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[LuPoM]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Wow. femShep gets a spot on the back cover of the CE and one trailer and the world goes to hell. I'm very satisfied w/ what I've seen and heard so far w/ ME3 as opposed to DA2 (which worried me from the start). Until someone says "awesome button" I'm still on board w/ the game.

There is no back and there is no front cover of the metal case it all depends which side you open it so it's pretty relative!
I'm happy tho that she'll be there

[greed89]

LuPoM wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Wow. femShep gets a spot on the back cover of the CE and one trailer and the world goes to hell. I'm very satisfied w/ what I've seen and heard so far w/ ME3 as opposed to DA2 (which worried me from the start). Until someone says "awesome button" I'm still on board w/ the game.

There is no back and there is no front cover of the metal case it all depends which side you open it so it's pretty relative!
I'm happy tho that she'll be there

Most People Will open the case like they do a book

She will be on the Back

[Thrombin]

Ottemis wrote...
Another thing, the assumption femshep would only hold greater appeal to female gamers is utter nonsense, as many male gamers can no doubt testify to.

Speaking personally, a female main character on a box cover is always the best way to attract me to buy a game.
I've always preferred to play female characters even though I'm male. I don't identify with being a female myself I just like the idea of a female protagonist. 

The way I see it, if I'm going to spend 50 hours on a game I may as well enjoy the view 

One thing, though, I don't agree with the people saying they don't want the default femshep in the marketing. I've got three femsheps and the only one that deviates from the default by anything other than hair colour is the Renegade femshep I deliberately created to look nasty.

I could never get any other femshep to look halfway decent so default femshep is my femshep and I'd love to see her in the trailer 

Regards

Julian

Modifié par Thrombin, 15 juin 2011 - 07:20 .

[Eradyn]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

I couldn't care less if Fem-Shep is on the box or not. Style, not substance. I've seen this marketing strategy before, DA2. There was a good reason they went with style, the game had no substance. Now I'm seeing the same thing with ME3. This has me a little concerned. I don't consider sticking a picture on the box, which will cost them nothing anyway, listening. If that's good enough for you then you're easily pleased. Do you really think anybody will care about that if the game turns out to be a soulless shooter?

People asked for a trailer with femShep. People asked for femShep on the box. BW asked if that's what was wanted and received an enthusiastic "yes." So they said "okay, we're doing it." Sounds like they are listening, to me.

DA2 didn't fail because femHawke was marketed. That has nothing to do with it. It failed because of the game itself. Whether ME3 thrives or dies will not be reliant on one femShep trailer and her face on the back of a CE tin. It will fail or thrive on the merits of the game.

[Sarevok Synder]

Eradyn wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

I couldn't care less if Fem-Shep is on the box or not. Style, not substance. I've seen this marketing strategy before, DA2. There was a good reason they went with style, the game had no substance. Now I'm seeing the same thing with ME3. This has me a little concerned. I don't consider sticking a picture on the box, which will cost them nothing anyway, listening. If that's good enough for you then you're easily pleased. Do you really think anybody will care about that if the game turns out to be a soulless shooter?

People asked for a trailer with femShep. People asked for femShep on the box. BW asked if that's what was wanted and received an enthusiastic "yes." So they said "okay, we're doing it." Sounds like they are listening, to me.

DA2 didn't fail because femHawke was marketed. That has nothing to do with it. It failed because of the game itself. Whether ME3 thrives or dies will not be reliant on one femShep trailer and her face on the back of a CE tin. It will fail or thrive on the merits of the game.

Where did I say it failed because of the marketing of FemHake? I've clearly stated it failed because of the game itself. I don't care about FemShep. It's listening to the criticism of their game play “choices” (really cuts) I care about, and so far their track record on that front hasn’t been great. Again I don’t care whether they stick a bloody picture on a box or not. That's my whole point. Read back over the posts.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 15 juin 2011 - 07:40 .

[rasblak]

Jebel Krong wrote...
seriously don't understand why BW suddenly feel it's necessary to stuff femshep on the cover when defaultmaleshep was specifically created to market the game, if anything you'll just confuse the more casual gamer not vested in the universe (perhaps why they are keeping it for the CE). the casual market is still a far more important segment than the few percent that play a femshep.

given all the marketing possibilities for mass effect, i also don't get why mr silverman is so hung up on femshep than exploring other avenues as well. compared to other EA franchises, and even dragon age, mass effect has had markedly less marketing/ancillary products on LIVE/Home etc than the others.

Don't you just love it when ppl play BioWare-employee-wannabe?
[Where's EliteMidget btw? Is he still claiming all the killable wouldn't be teammates?]

Actually, yeah, trying to teach Professionals how to do their jobs, that's the kind of things meant for the forums.

For some reason, that's about the only thing on Mass Effect 3 I've heard that has actually piqued my interest as a fan so far; and this change could very well be reason enough for me to grab my copy. I am interested and *want* to see this.

Modifié par rasblak, 15 juin 2011 - 07:42 .

[LGTX]

rasblak wrote...

trying to teach Professionals how to do their jobs, that's the kind of things meant for the forums.

[LuPoM]

greed89 wrote...

LuPoM wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Wow. femShep gets a spot on the back cover of the CE and one trailer and the world goes to hell. I'm very satisfied w/ what I've seen and heard so far w/ ME3 as opposed to DA2 (which worried me from the start). Until someone says "awesome button" I'm still on board w/ the game.

There is no back and there is no front cover of the metal case it all depends which side you open it so it's pretty relative!
I'm happy tho that she'll be there

Most People Will open the case like they do a book

She will be on the Back

I open the game cases like the japanese open theyr books, so she will be on the front.

It's all points of view

[cactusberry]

I think this is great news.

[HTTP 404]

I am all for more trailers

[Strugz]

I guess Bioware cracked against whiners . Whiners is what you ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Crimson_Rose07]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Crimson_Rose07 wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

I couldn't care less if Fem-Shep is on the box or not. Style, not substance. I've seen this marketing strategy before, DA2. There was a good reason they went with style, the game had no substance. Now I'm seeing the same thing with ME3. This has me a little concerned. I don't consider sticking a picture on the box, which will cost them nothing anyway, listening. If that's good enough for you then you're easily pleased. Do you really think anybody will care about that if the game turns out to be a soulless shooter?

From what I've been seeing, you're basing this off one game DA2. While there were/are many problems w/ DA2 it's only one of Bioware's games. They took a risk w/ several things w/ DA2, and many were not sucessful, they recognize that, but Bioware has consistently said that they are willing to push the envelope in hopes of moving forward and making better and newer types of games. Like many, I would say that Bioware has a good track record for making great games. Yes, again DA2 flopped in a lot of areas, but it was one game and they have been working to fix many of the problems (the ones they can at least...can't change story arc now). Besides, the writers as well as many of members of the DA2 team are not part of the ME team. ME has put out 2 great games...their track record is good.

I think that basing what the quality of the game will be like on how much they advertise the art on the CE box this early on is bit premature. Give them a chance. I think this is getting blown way out of proportion. 

I don't think it is. They are all under the control of EA and they want maximum profit. They care little for quality. The marketing campaign is exactly the same as with DA2, and that is setting alarm bells ringing in my head. It's all the E3 marketing not just the meaningless box, just a lot more of "press a buhon, somthin awesome hasta happen." They didn't take a risk, they made cuts and shipped it out in a sorry state, and hoping people wouldn't notice the quality drop. It didn't work.

BTW: ME2 for me at least, felt soulless, so I don't consider it a great game either. It was average in my opinion.

Quality and profit go hand in hand to some extent. There are formulas for figuring out the maximum profit based on quality and quantity. While companies can miss this mark (sometimes by a long shot) it's the goal they're shooting for. DA2 was a mess and it hurt Bioware and EA. It not only disappointed many fans (myself included), but turned away many new potential fans. In a gamer's (and probably development teams) perfect world quality would be all that matters.

But in most cases quality costs-time, money, resources- and the higher the quality the higher the costs of all those resources. One of the biggest concerns for the gaming industry is profit: they'tre a business. Sure there are those dedicated individuals who want to see their story, art designs, etc, and overall hard work completed to the best of  their ability with little to no restraint, but that's highly unrealistic and practically impossible w/out a large surplus of funds.

What I'm getting at w/out being too long-winded is that there is always going to be the friction between profit and product quality. You hear the writers and developers complaining about it all the time. However, in my opinion, EA and more specifically Bioware, has done an excellent job of putting out quality games w/in a reasonable time frame at a reasonable price (again, my opinion). I get that there are going to be messups (aka DA2) but hopefully the companies learn and improve, otherwise they lose their fan base or customers. 

From what you're saying, your a fan that was somewhat disappointed w/ ME2 and very let down by DA2. There are likely many others that feel the same way as you as far as quality is concerned. Bioware and EA will have to do better to keep fans like you, but on ther other hand there are fans who are perfectly happy w/ ME2 (and possibly DA2...after the repairs more likley). I, for instance, loved ME2. It wasn't soulless to me but intriguing and represented a new aspect to ME. It comes down to opinion and "taste" so to speak. Some hate shooters, some don't, some like RPGs, some don't, some hate that ME is a shooter RPG, again (redundant I know) some don't. 

Sorry you didn't enjoy those games more...but some of us did.

[Sarevok Synder]

Crimson_Rose07 wrote...

Quality and profit go hand in hand to some extent. There are formulas for figuring out the maximum profit based on quality and quantity. While companies can miss this mark (sometimes by a long shot) it's the goal they're shooting for. DA2 was a mess and it hurt Bioware and EA. It not only disappointed many fans (myself included), but turned away many new potential fans. In a gamer's (and probably development teams) perfect world quality would be all that matters.

But in most cases quality costs-time, money, resources- and the higher the quality the higher the costs of all those resources. One of the biggest concerns for the gaming industry is profit: they'tre a business. Sure there are those dedicated individuals who want to see their story, art designs, etc, and overall hard work completed to the best of  their ability with little to no restraint, but that's highly unrealistic and practically impossible w/out a large surplus of funds.

What I'm getting at w/out being too long-winded is that there is always going to be the friction between profit and product quality. You hear the writers and developers complaining about it all the time. However, in my opinion, EA and more specifically Bioware, has done an excellent job of putting out quality games w/in a reasonable time frame at a reasonable price (again, my opinion). I get that there are going to be messups (aka DA2) but hopefully the companies learn and improve, otherwise they lose their fan base or customers. 

From what you're saying, your a fan that was somewhat disappointed w/ ME2 and very let down by DA2. There are likely many others that feel the same way as you as far as quality is concerned. Bioware and EA will have to do better to keep fans like you, but on ther other hand there are fans who are perfectly happy w/ ME2 (and possibly DA2...after the repairs more likley). I, for instance, loved ME2. It wasn't soulless to me but intriguing and represented a new aspect to ME. It comes down to opinion and "taste" so to speak. Some hate shooters, some don't, some like RPGs, some don't, some hate that ME is a shooter RPG, again (redundant I know) some don't. 

Sorry you didn't enjoy those games more...but some of us did.

What's with the wall of text? "Brevity is the soul of wit;" William Shakespeare

The evidence speaks for itself. Bioware made one improvement in ME2, combat. They cut everything else. If you're happy paying the same price, or more, for less; that's your business. Opinions will always differ. I for one see it as the gradual slide into the inevitable EA work ethic of more money for less quality. Look at the C&C series for just one example.

I don't hate shooters. I play them all the time, ME2 was a basic shooter. Compared to most the combat mechanics are average. But I was willing to forgive if they kept the RPG elements as they made up the difference. Instead we have the current situation. Things aren't looking a whole lot better for ME3 either.

[JamieCOTC]

Eradyn wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

I couldn't care less if Fem-Shep is on the box or not. Style, not substance. I've seen this marketing strategy before, DA2. There was a good reason they went with style, the game had no substance. Now I'm seeing the same thing with ME3. This has me a little concerned. I don't consider sticking a picture on the box, which will cost them nothing anyway, listening. If that's good enough for you then you're easily pleased. Do you really think anybody will care about that if the game turns out to be a soulless shooter?

People asked for a trailer with femShep. People asked for femShep on the box. BW asked if that's what was wanted and received an enthusiastic "yes." So they said "okay, we're doing it." Sounds like they are listening, to me.

DA2 didn't fail because femHawke was marketed. That has nothing to do with it. It failed because of the game itself. Whether ME3 thrives or dies will not be reliant on one femShep trailer and her face on the back of a CE tin. It will fail or thrive on the merits of the game.

Thank you. 

[Sarevok Synder]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

I couldn't care less if Fem-Shep is on the box or not. Style, not substance. I've seen this marketing strategy before, DA2. There was a good reason they went with style, the game had no substance. Now I'm seeing the same thing with ME3. This has me a little concerned. I don't consider sticking a picture on the box, which will cost them nothing anyway, listening. If that's good enough for you then you're easily pleased. Do you really think anybody will care about that if the game turns out to be a soulless shooter?

People asked for a trailer with femShep. People asked for femShep on the box. BW asked if that's what was wanted and received an enthusiastic "yes." So they said "okay, we're doing it." Sounds like they are listening, to me.

DA2 didn't fail because femHawke was marketed. That has nothing to do with it. It failed because of the game itself. Whether ME3 thrives or dies will not be reliant on one femShep trailer and her face on the back of a CE tin. It will fail or thrive on the merits of the game.

Thank you. 

Why are you thanking him? I didn't say that. Like him you need to read the damn posts.

[Thrombin]

Sarevok Synder wrote...
The evidence speaks for itself. Bioware made one improvement in ME2, combat. They cut everything else. If you're happy paying the same price, or more, for less; that's your business. Opinions will always differ. I for one see it as the gradual slide into the inevitable EA work ethic of more money for less quality. Look at the C&C series for just one example. 

I don't hate shooters. I play them all the time, ME2 was a basic shooter. Compared to most the combat mechanics are average. But I was willing to forgive if they kept the RPG elements as they made up the difference. Instead we have the current situation. Things aren't looking a whole lot better for ME3 either.

I don't see it that way at all. With ME1 I think they threw the dart a little too far to the left, with ME2, a little too far to the right. Both were still brilliant games. Everything I've heard about ME3 sounds like they're heading straight for the bullseye!

[Sarevok Synder]

Thrombin wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...
The evidence speaks for itself. Bioware made one improvement in ME2, combat. They cut everything else. If you're happy paying the same price, or more, for less; that's your business. Opinions will always differ. I for one see it as the gradual slide into the inevitable EA work ethic of more money for less quality. Look at the C&C series for just one example. 

I don't hate shooters. I play them all the time, ME2 was a basic shooter. Compared to most the combat mechanics are average. But I was willing to forgive if they kept the RPG elements as they made up the difference. Instead we have the current situation. Things aren't looking a whole lot better for ME3 either.

I don't see it that way at all. With ME1 I think they threw the dart a little too far to the left, with ME2, a little too far to the right. Both were still brilliant games. Everything I've heard about ME3 sounds like they're heading straight for the bullseye!

I hope you're right. Time will tell. It's the whole vibe I'm getting that's putting me off.

It wasn't just a little too far to the right in ME2, it was way to hell too far. They improved combat, but rather than tweak everything else; they simply cut it.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 15 juin 2011 - 09:44 .

[f1r3storm]

Best marketing decision ever.

[Captain Crash]

@Sarevok: Getting a little off topic.   Not that post or the content of the quote pyramid is even about the thread title.  

Just dont want a lockdown is all 

Eradyn wrote...

People asked for a trailer with femShep. People asked for femShep on the box. BW asked if that's what was wanted and received an enthusiastic "yes." So they said "okay, we're doing it." Sounds like they are listening, to me.

Exactly this.  David was swamped with feedback.  Not by one or two fans but by hundreds of fans showing their support.



If its such a minority it just wouldnt be done.  Additionally Bioware did a poll on facebook a couple of weeks back asking whether players preferred maleshep/femshep.  Out of almost 20,000 votes she got just over a third of the vote.   My point being its not just a few "whiners" as some people are suggesting causing this.  There are alot of femshep fans out there who would like Bioware to flaunt her a bit more.   Now they are and were really pleased about it

Modifié par Captain Crash, 15 juin 2011 - 10:10 .

[Sarevok Synder]

Captain Crash wrote...

@Sarevok: Getting a little off topic.   Not that post or the content of the quote pyramid is even about the thread title.  

Just dont want a lockdown is all 

Eradyn wrote...

People asked for a trailer with femShep. People asked for femShep on the box. BW asked if that's what was wanted and received an enthusiastic "yes." So they said "okay, we're doing it." Sounds like they are listening, to me.

Exactly this.  David was swamped with feedback.  Not by one or two fans but by hundreds of fans showing their support.



If its such a minority it just wouldnt be done.  Additionally Bioware did a poll on facebook a couple of weeks back asking whether players preferred maleshep/femshep.  Out of almost 20,000 votes she got just over a third of the vote.   My point being its not just a few "whiners" as some people are suggesting causing this.  There are alot of femshep fans out there who would like Bioware to flaunt her a bit more.   Now they are and were really pleased about it

Nope, I'm not off topic. It's these meaningless marketing gimmicks and lack of meaningful details that are the topic. It's all very DA2ish.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 15 juin 2011 - 10:16 .

[Sarevok Synder]

Double post, sorry.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 15 juin 2011 - 10:15 .