27 réponses à ce sujet

[knightnblu]

With the Reaper invasion in full swing, what happened to the Citadel? It has to be as high a priority as Earth because it is linked to all of the other mass effect gates. Additionally, as the seat of government for the galaxy it holds all of the records of the major civilizations. From the Prothean record relayed by Vigil, we learned that was the jump off point for the war when the Protheans were annihilated.
 
Therefore, it does not make sense for the Reapers to leave it unmolested for long. As time goes by C-Sec and government officials will have time to evacuate the population, destroy records, and to secure the Council. So if it has not been hit when the Earth was invaded, the Reaper strike force to take it down is on the way and will be there soon.
 
A simultaneous assault makes the most sense because you decapitate the galactic government, seize the records, and assume control of the gating system limiting the movements of your enemies. Such a move by the Reapers maintains the initiative they have established by keeping the galactic civilizations off balance.
 
That immediately places the Council races on the defensive, disorganizes them, creates fear in the civilian populations, and reduces the morale of any remaining military forces. I guess I am saying that I would be surprised if the Citadel was still in the Council's hands when Earth gets hit.

[Paula Deen]

My guess--and it really is just a guess--is that Vigil's special file prevents the Reapers from using the Citadel to shut out everyone but the Reapers from the Relay network. Or, the Council/C-Sec may have found a way to deny access of anyone from using the relays linked to the Citadel, securing it from a Reaper attack.

Yeah, I really don't get it either. A quick assault on the Citadel with a handful of Reapers would allow them to take it in short order, and if they can use it like in previous invasions, they'll cut off the Relay network from any non-Reaper. In other words, destroying whatever chance the galaxy might have had.

[KotorEffect3]

I've been wondering about the citadel as well since the reapers could still use it to control the relay network one would think they would still go after it. I really think the citadel will be a big factor in ME 3 since there are areas of the citadel that the reapers have sealed off, if we can somehow find a way in those areas we may find something the reapers don't want us finding out.

Modifié par KotorEffect3, 15 juin 2011 - 10:31 .

[zeoduos]

I think the Citadel will be a "faction" wherein you'd have to gain their loyalty to back you up. I say this because, frankly, I don't think Shepard has really won over the Council yet (given that you saved them. If not then this is a whole different matter.)

But at some point in the game, you're going to have to convince the Council to follow you because throughout ME1 and ME2 they show contempt towards Shepard. So no, I don't think we're just going to lose the Citadel just like that. Maybe down the line the Citadel will be lost or even destroyed, but not until you win over the Council for good.

[KotorEffect3]

zeoduos wrote...

I think the Citadel will be a "faction" wherein you'd have to gain their loyalty to back you up. I say this because, frankly, I don't think Shepard has really won over the Council yet (given that you saved them. If not then this is a whole different matter.)

But at some point in the game, you're going to have to convince the Council to follow you because throughout ME1 and ME2 they show contempt towards Shepard. So no, I don't think we're just going to lose the Citadel just like that. Maybe down the line the Citadel will be lost or even destroyed, but not until you win over the Council for good.

I don't think winning over the council is as important as winning over their respective species.  I would love to see the Turian Hierarchy tell the Turian Counselor to stuff it because he failed to act to protect the galaxy and by doing so he put their world as well as the rest of galaxy in danger.

[zeoduos]

KotorEffect3 wrote...


I don't think winning over the council is as important as winning over their respective species.  I would love to see the Turian Hierarchy tell the Turian Counselor to stuff it because he failed to act to protect the galaxy and by doing so he put their world as well as the rest of galaxy in danger.

I always thought Council > All alien species and governments (humans included). I see your point but the Council is still pretty powerful despite their mistakes right?

[R3MUS]

I think the Reapers will attack the Citadel in ME3.

[Robhuzz]

zeoduos wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...


I don't think winning over the council is as important as winning over their respective species.  I would love to see the Turian Hierarchy tell the Turian Counselor to stuff it because he failed to act to protect the galaxy and by doing so he put their world as well as the rest of galaxy in danger.

I always thought Council > All alien species and governments (humans included). I see your point but the Council is still pretty powerful despite their mistakes right?

From the codex: The Council is an executive committee composed of one representative each from the
member species. Though they have no official power over the independent governments of other species, the Council's decisions carry great weight throughout the galaxy. No single Council race is strong enough to defy the others, and all have a vested interest in compromise and cooperation.

This pretty much says the council has no power over any race, though if the council decredes something, most races will probably go along with it so as to not upset the other races and have it negatively affect their own race.

What the humans do on earth is none of their (the council) business. Also, the turian councillor would not have any real say in the independant turian governement, they might listen to him because he has a very important representative role for the turians, yet he has no official power there.

In any case, I plan to let the council get killed in ME3 if at all possible. No more listening to the council then:D

[KotorEffect3]

Robhuzz wrote...

zeoduos wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...


I don't think winning over the council is as important as winning over their respective species.  I would love to see the Turian Hierarchy tell the Turian Counselor to stuff it because he failed to act to protect the galaxy and by doing so he put their world as well as the rest of galaxy in danger.

I always thought Council > All alien species and governments (humans included). I see your point but the Council is still pretty powerful despite their mistakes right?

From the codex: The Council is an executive committee composed of one representative each from the
member species. Though they have no official power over the independent governments of other species, the Council's decisions carry great weight throughout the galaxy. No single Council race is strong enough to defy the others, and all have a vested interest in compromise and cooperation.

This pretty much says the council has no power over any race, though if the council decredes something, most races will probably go along with it so as to not upset the other races and have it negatively affect their own race.

What the humans do on earth is none of their (the council) business. Also, the turian councillor would not have any real say in the independant turian governement, they might listen to him because he has a very important representative role for the turians, yet he has no official power there.

In any case, I plan to let the council get killed in ME3 if at all possible. No more listening to the council then:D

The way I see it I think as the reaper war unfolds the current council members themselves will lose all credibility even with their respective governments,  I doubt that Shepard has been the only one warning them to do something about the reapers,  I am sure their are those in the Turian military as well as the Salarian STG that took Shepard's warnings seriously, hell the Turians reverse engineered Sovereigns main weapon into the Thanix cannon and the salarian stg was with Shepard on Virmire when he took out Saren's base and the salarian stg doesn't do anything half assed you know they have at the very least has been investigating sovereign and where it could have come from,  Not to mention there are news reports in ME 2 that the salarian stg has been investigating the missing colonies and the turians have been increasing the crew compliment.  I am guessing that there are already those in their governments that know the council is full of crap even if the official stance of those governments is deny the reaper threat, just like Hackett knows about the reaper threat despite the alliance's official stance.

[knightnblu]

I think that you may be right so far as the Council's credibility goes. As far as their home governments, we really don't know anything about how that works. Are the Asari, Turian, and Salarian Councilors the titular heads of their respective governments or ambassadors only? If they were not the chief executives of their governments, then what role did they play and what was their power on their home worlds? If they were merely ambassadors, like Anderson, then how much influence did they wield with their respective governments? Did their governments dictate their positions? As far as humanity is concerned, Anderson feels no compunction to do the will of the Alliance at all times.

The relationship between the human Councilor and the Alliance was beginning to become strained, as indicated by in game exposition. This was because Anderson was protecting Shepard and the Alliance was beginning to chafe due to his resistance.

Despite the Councilors looking like the Salarian when the tanks fall at the beginning of Miranda's loyalty mission, I suspect that they cannot be replaced quickly. Nevertheless, they remain an important target for the Reapers.

Many questions, and few answers.

[Khran1505]

The Citadel would have been an important spot to take control of originally had the Reapers had the element of surprise. But fact of the matter is even though their existence is denied by the Council, they can still monitor Citadel Space. Even with an entire Reaper fleet, they could still use the Citadel to their advantage (even if it was still a losing battle). The point of the Citadel was for a galactic communion to have their seat of power centred here. With them dead and the Citadel under Reaper control, they command all Mass Relays and can systematically wipe out the galaxy.

Without that element of surprise, the whole galaxy would be alerted to the Reaper threat and unite them all in a fight for survival. At least by attacking Earth and then key locations, the Reapers can do things subtley before landing the ultimate smackdown.

[KotorEffect3]

knightnblu wrote...

I think that you may be right so far as the Council's credibility goes. As far as their home governments, we really don't know anything about how that works. Are the Asari, Turian, and Salarian Councilors the titular heads of their respective governments or ambassadors only? If they were not the chief executives of their governments, then what role did they play and what was their power on their home worlds? If they were merely ambassadors, like Anderson, then how much influence did they wield with their respective governments? Did their governments dictate their positions? As far as humanity is concerned, Anderson feels no compunction to do the will of the Alliance at all times.

The relationship between the human Councilor and the Alliance was beginning to become strained, as indicated by in game exposition. This was because Anderson was protecting Shepard and the Alliance was beginning to chafe due to his resistance.

Despite the Councilors looking like the Salarian when the tanks fall at the beginning of Miranda's loyalty mission, I suspect that they cannot be replaced quickly. Nevertheless, they remain an important target for the Reapers.

Many questions, and few answers.

I am not saying the governments will officialy start supporting Shepard right away, the game is looking like it is going to be set up DAO style where Shepard  is going to have to win over those governments somehow and how easy they are to win over will largely depend on actions in previous games but with Liara as the SB she could point Shepard to the right people within those governments, with the alliance it is clear that not everyone is on the same page concerning the reaper threat (Hackett and Anderson take the reaper threat seriously) so I am guessing there are officials and military within those other governments that also took a look at the reaper threat even if the official stance of their governments was the opposite.

[mjh417]

It has been confirmed that we will be able to visit the Citadel again in ME3, which cant happen if its destroyed right away or tis relays shut down. If it does get attacked, it wont be early on in the game.

[WizenSlinky0]

KotorEffect3 wrote...


The way I see it I think as the reaper war unfolds the current council members themselves will lose all credibility even with their respective governments, I doubt that Shepard has been the only one warning them to do something about the reapers, I am sure their are those in the Turian military as well as the Salarian STG that took Shepard's warnings seriously, hell the Turians reverse engineered Sovereigns main weapon into the Thanix cannon and the salarian stg was with Shepard on Virmire when he took out Saren's base and the salarian stg doesn't do anything half assed you know they have at the very least has been investigating sovereign and where it could have come from, Not to mention there are news reports in ME 2 that the salarian stg has been investigating the missing colonies and the turians have been increasing the crew compliment. I am guessing that there are already those in their governments that know the council is full of crap even if the official stance of those governments is deny the reaper threat, just like Hackett knows about the reaper threat despite the alliance's official stance.

Incorrect. The STG on Virmirre had no contact with any reaper. All they saw was a rogue spectre breeding Krogan. Which was going to be bad for the universe.

The Turians reverse engineered Sovereigns weapons because they viewed it as a very advanced ship and worth salvaging for technology. Assuming they believe the story it was a Geth ship then of course they would be working to gain firepower equivalent to what they fought.

The most logical conclusion I've come to is that the reapers were defeated by their own arrogance. The Citadel was built to basically withstand any punishment a fleet could dish out once it's arms are closed. Reapers counted on the keepers signals to take control of the Citadel once their surprise attack started.

Now that they no longer have the keepers supporting them, and likely never built a back-up override, they can't get close enough to the Citadel without them closing up the arms until they manage to get some indoctrinated saboteurs on there. Brute forcing their way through would defeat the purpose and potentially harm the next cycle of extinction if the Citadel has taken damage.

[DarthSliver]

I think the Citadel Attack worked best when they were using the Citadel as a portal to enter from Dark Space. I think they know the attack wont work so well if the Races on the Citadel close it up making only one way to get in.

[ZLurps]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

The most logical conclusion I've come to is that the reapers were defeated by their own arrogance. The Citadel was built to basically withstand any punishment a fleet could dish out once it's arms are closed. Reapers counted on the keepers signals to take control of the Citadel once their surprise attack started.

Now that they no longer have the keepers supporting them, and likely never built a back-up override, they can't get close enough to the Citadel without them closing up the arms until they manage to get some indoctrinated saboteurs on there. Brute forcing their way through would defeat the purpose and potentially harm the next cycle of extinction if the Citadel has taken damage.

This has been my conclusion as well. There is one thing that is still bothering me though.
IIRC arms of Citadel weren't part of Citadel originally but created afterwards by current space faring races (I really may be wrong about this though.)
However, if Citadel arms are constructed by current spacefaring races, or even Prothean technology Reapers should be able to destroy them. Reaper main weapons, are powerfull enough to reduce planets to asteroids if several Reapers concentrate their fire so destroying arms shouldn't be a real issue for them. Then they could simply strorm the place with Husks.

[mithikx]

ZLurps wrote...

a

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

The most logical conclusion I've come to is that the reapers were defeated by their own arrogance. The Citadel was built to basically withstand any punishment a fleet could dish out once it's arms are closed. Reapers counted on the keepers signals to take control of the Citadel once their surprise attack started.

Now that they no longer have the keepers supporting them, and likely never built a back-up override, they can't get close enough to the Citadel without them closing up the arms until they manage to get some indoctrinated saboteurs on there. Brute forcing their way through would defeat the purpose and potentially harm the next cycle of extinction if the Citadel has taken damage.

This has been my conclusion as well. There is one thing that is still bothering me though.
IIRC arms of Citadel weren't part of Citadel originally but created afterwards by current space faring races (I really may be wrong about this though.)
However, if Citadel arms are constructed by current spacefaring races, or even Prothean technology Reapers should be able to destroy them. Reaper main weapons, are powerfull enough to reduce planets to asteroids if several Reapers concentrate their fire so destroying arms shouldn't be a real issue for them. Then they could simply strorm the place with Husks.

intresting idea but the arms seem to be the main part of the citadel if you look at images of the arms open.




If you look at the galaxy map in ME2 you notice that in Arrival the galaxy where the Alpha Relay in the Viper Nebula in the Bahak system (Aratoht) which at one point was considered for colonization by humans but passed on it due to it's enviornmental conditions, but the Batarians went for it. <suggesting that human territory and Batarian territory isn't too far away

Also the Viper Nebula is near the Local Cluster (where Earth is) and the Citadel is in the Serpent Nebula which is near Earth but not as near to the Bahak System (where the Reapers arrive). The Reapers could be attack en masse finding Earth the biggest threat as that is the core human world and Shepard is human.

[ZLurps]

mithikx wrote...
intresting idea but the arms seem to be the main part of the citadel if you look at images of the arms open.

I went and read ME wikia page and codex entries and you are right. Nothing indicates that arms were constructed later than Citadel itself. My memory was playing tricks with me.

But then, that's a good things because one element that could be considered nerfing Reapers is now out of question. I think we also know now how Shepard (and other inter galactic traffic) is able to move between systems. Reapers can't close and / or guard all ME relays.

[WizenSlinky0]

ZLurps wrote...

This has been my conclusion as well. There is one thing that is still bothering me though.
IIRC arms of Citadel weren't part of Citadel originally but created afterwards by current space faring races (I really may be wrong about this though.)
However, if Citadel arms are constructed by current spacefaring races, or even Prothean technology Reapers should be able to destroy them. Reaper main weapons, are powerfull enough to reduce planets to asteroids if several Reapers concentrate their fire so destroying arms shouldn't be a real issue for them. Then they could simply strorm the place with Husks.

I don't believe so. Far as I remember the arms have been there since the beginning and no one really knows what material was used in its construction to make it so resiliant.

From the mass effect wiki: "If any enemy gets close enough, the station is capable of closing in on
itself to form a long, armored cylinder, 25 kilometers in length. The
station's hull is sufficiently strong that, even when subjected to the
most advanced weaponry available, it would take several days of
sustained bombardment to inflict any serious damage to the
superstructure.
"

Now, obviously a reaper bombardment would break through faster, but I don't think damaging the Citadel is really something they want to do. Remember it's the key to their trap. And if we lost the reaper war they'd likely want to replace the keepers in order to return to the original extinction cycle.

[ZLurps]

Uh, no offence, that is correct, but you may want to check post above yours.

[Ianamus]

apparently the reapers are invading through the 'south' of the glaxy, and making their way up. That's why the batarian systems (which were at the very bottom) were conquered first, and why earth is next (it's pretty 'south' as well). The citadel is about half way up, a bit further than Tuchanka- which we know is being attacked by some reapers, so it may see conflict a bit through the game, but should be relatively safe assuming Earth holds.

Omega is even further up, and so is Illium, so they should be fairly safe as well, and from what we've seen of the Quarian/Geth systems they are at the very top of the galaxy, so they should be the safest of all.

[wexorius]

I got some predictions it's maybe stupid but if councill races won't help humanity they will atack earth after final batle could be mad but i would shash councill army. if humanity became too powerfull it will be atacked by councill, all remember what morodin said? when krogans builded much more advanced technology  after that  war had began. On other side look location list what they showed us. Most of local relays are NOT under citadel controll, even human relay, humans activated it by themself, councill will defend their systems so i think they will let humanity to die. I and other players will rerget that We did not killed councill in 1st game.

Modifié par wexorius, 17 juin 2011 - 06:21 .

[Wulfram]

I reckon Shepard will make it go boom

[shnizzler93]

The Citadel's going to survive.

[Dexi]

knightnblu wrote...

With the Reaper invasion in full swing, what happened to the Citadel? It has to be as high a priority as Earth because it is linked to all of the other mass effect gates. Additionally, as the seat of government for the galaxy it holds all of the records of the major civilizations. From the Prothean record relayed by Vigil, we learned that was the jump off point for the war when the Protheans were annihilated.
 
Therefore, it does not make sense for the Reapers to leave it unmolested for long. As time goes by C-Sec and government officials will have time to evacuate the population, destroy records, and to secure the Council. So if it has not been hit when the Earth was invaded, the Reaper strike force to take it down is on the way and will be there soon.
 
A simultaneous assault makes the most sense because you decapitate the galactic government, seize the records, and assume control of the gating system limiting the movements of your enemies. Such a move by the Reapers maintains the initiative they have established by keeping the galactic civilizations off balance.
 
That immediately places the Council races on the defensive, disorganizes them, creates fear in the civilian populations, and reduces the morale of any remaining military forces. I guess I am saying that I would be surprised if the Citadel was still in the Council's hands when Earth gets hit.

*Spoiler* the Citadel itself is a weapon, and Shep in ME3 must find a way to use it against the Reapers.