517 réponses à ce sujet

[henno13]

For arguments sake, let's just say that Bioware keeps the same system that they had in ME2 when it came to romances and dialouge.

Okay, Bioware's romance system (or dialouge on the Normandy as a whole) is pretty damn ridiculous. It takes only a few dialouge sequences for someone to come on to you, where you then make a choice to continue or not. If you don't continue (or if you can romance at all), after the few dialouge sequences, the rest of the dialouge could be summed up by:



For Mass Effect 3, I really hope that Bioware has thought this through, and re-worked the Normandy dialouge system accordingly. For example, I really don't want to talk to Garrus on the Normandy, and then he comes on to Shepard out of the blue, becasue that is what would happen under the current system. Not only would that be extremely awkward and cringe worthy, that would just destroy whatever characterisation they built up for Garrus over the past two games just for the sake of a same-sex romance scene. As a consequence, they also need more proper Normandy dialouge: comments on previous missions; banter etc, becasue I really don't want to be met with CALIBRATIONS after a few conversations.

How can they fix this? I'm no designer, but they could offer a very subtle choice somewhere, or turn it off completely if you import a LI(s) from the previous games. The obvious one is don't talk to them at all, but that is not an option.

Somehow, I don't think that the general thread is the place for this. You may take this has homophobia, but I think it's common sense. I have no problem with same-sex relationships IRL, but I don't want it to ruin the experience, as the characters are an intergral part of that experience.

Modifié par henno13, 15 juin 2011 - 02:24 .

[Comsky159]

So what's the integral issue you're proposing here? You seem to be complaining about dialogue and character consistency simultaneously. Mind clarifying your intentions?

[78stonewobble]

There's some point to this.

Getting to know a character somewhat automatically led to romance. Just thought about this.

Atleast it should be a bit more obvious which conversation options initiate "romance" and choice of answers that are more meant in a more friendly manner.

[AlphaDormante]

In relation to your Garrus example specifically, I highly doubt that situation would ever arise. Garrus was one of the few characters in which Shepard had to initiate the romance entirely with absolutely no come-ons from the LI, and if that's IC for FemShep, there's absolutely no reason it shouldn't be IC for Sheploo.

I'm hoping they'll take a gameplay design from DA2: the ability to know when you're choosing a romance-oriented dialogue option. I thought that was a great addition in avoiding romance traps, which was unfortunately soiled by the fact that it was useless because nobody cared and wanted to jump you anyway.

While I don't support a "no ******" check button in any way, I agree that work should be done into avoiding stupid romance traps unless it's IC for the LI in question to slather him/herself all over hot saviors of the galaxy.

[henno13]

Comsky159 wrote...

So what's the integral issue you're proposing here? You seem to be complaining about dialogue and character consistency simultaneously. Mind clarifying your intentions?

Yes, a part of it is the Normandy's dialouge, but the romance system ties in with that. Bioware should give us a subtle yet difinitive choice when it comes to same-sex relationships. Or they could turn it off completely according to certain circumstances if you've imported.

[ElitePinecone]

Bioware are improving the dialogue system for ME3, including giving more 'friendship' paths if you don't romance a character. They've learnt from criticism in ME/ME2 (and threads like this) about the gaping void of Normandy dialogue if you don't romance a character.

On your specific concern about Garrus - in my opinion the chances of him becoming a same-sex love interest are infinitely small. It won't happen.

I agree with a lot of the concerns you have here. However, a solution would not be 'turning it off completely'. It's trivially easy to ignore the one or two lines of dialogue in a 40-hour game.

[henno13]

ElitePinecone wrote...
On your specific concern about Garrus - in my opinion the chances of him becoming a same-sex love interest are infinitely small. It won't happen.
 

While Garrus is a concern, I was just using him as an example.

I agree with a lot of the concerns you have here. However, a solution
would not be 'turning it off completely'. It's trivially easy to ignore
the one or two lines of dialogue in a 40-hour game.

It would be trivially easy to avoid it if they re-work the dialouge system, as you say they have done.

Thanks.

Modifié par henno13, 15 juin 2011 - 10:07 .

[tagoloan boy]

Maybe they could adopt a similar system like Dragon Age 2? You know a message choice with a heart on it to signify that it is a romantic option/line. I am not too keen on s/s relationships in the game accept for females. Heck i would wish there would be a way to get into a three way with my love interests with my male character. Remember in Mass effect 1 shepperd has the option to try to get both liara and ashley? haha but ashley backs off from it. A straight guy can only hope... ;-)

[TexasToast712]

He is basically saying he doesnt want another DAII where Anders is suddenly homosexual and you are forced to get negative points because Anders seems interested after 2 conversations. I agree. No rewriting the sexuality of pre established characters. I need that banner. Seen it somewhere.

[Zeratul20]

I can actually understand the OP's point, but that doesn't just apply to the same-sex relationships. I do hope there's some dialog for ALL LI's, regardless of their LI status. (As in: they still talk to you after you turn'em down, etc.)

[Zeratul20]

Very mature, makalath.

[Shepard Lives]

I wonder how ****ing long before people realize Rivalry points aren't "negative points". They're quite the opposite, in fact.

[TexasToast712]

Shepard Lives wrote...

I wonder how ****ing long before people realize Rivalry points aren't "negative points". They're quite the opposite, in fact.

Well they are considered negative if you are trying to get frienship points instead of building a rivalry with someone.

[Clonedzero]

the whole whining about rivalry points wiht anders in DA2 is a bit silly. its stupid easy to get friendship with him all you do is go "mages yay!" everytime that comes up.

[SennenScale]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

I wonder how ****ing long before people realize Rivalry points aren't "negative points". They're quite the opposite, in fact.

Well they are considered negative if you are trying to get frienship points instead of building a rivalry with someone.

And it's trivially easy to gain them back. Or you just pick the snark option once in that conversation and the flirting never happens.

[Bolboreta]

I have the same concerns, but not about same sex relationships, about any relationship. Talking to Kaidan/Jacob and trying to be nice was "sending signals" to them >.< I want to be nice to other guys without make them to think I'm trying to hit them.

[Shepard Lives]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

I wonder how ****ing long before people realize Rivalry points aren't "negative points". They're quite the opposite, in fact.

Well they are considered negative if you are trying to get frienship points instead of building a rivalry with someone.

Yeah, but they are not to be considered negative in the sense that you still get additional content and character development if you build them up, as opposed to getting locked out of content like in DAO.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

This has been an o/s problem for both Mass Effect games. Kaidan thinks femshep likes him if she's polite to him, my paragon Shep that wanted to romance Liara was forced into being somewhat rude to Kaidan just to let him know she wasn't interested. In ME2 I couldn't even let her chat to Jacob because I knew she'd end up flirting. So I'd be happy to see the romance conversations better handled, I don't really mind if a character (male or female) flirts with Shep so long as there is a polite way to say Shep isn't interested (think Liara in ME1).

[AerisBru]

I want to be nice to other guys without make them to think I'm trying to hit them.

But usually this is a problem in the REAL world too LOL

About the topic...I'm not a fan of the idea of rewriting sexuality, too. If there was a hint of homossexuality, it's ok (and I know that it's difficult to estabilish WHAT is a hint of homossexuality, too). But deciding that some character is ****** just because A FRACTION of the fanbase decided that it would be good...I can't agree with this. It's just my opinion, so please don't burn me at the stake just because you disagree with me (sometimes it's difficult to express a point of view around here without all the bashing). But a character that is a s/s option since the beginning...why not? It wouldn't be my option, but if it would make people happy without hurting previous character development, I'm all for it.

[78stonewobble]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

This has been an o/s problem for both Mass Effect games. Kaidan thinks femshep likes him if she's polite to him, my paragon Shep that wanted to romance Liara was forced into being somewhat rude to Kaidan just to let him know she wasn't interested. In ME2 I couldn't even let her chat to Jacob because I knew she'd end up flirting. So I'd be happy to see the romance conversations better handled, I don't really mind if a character (male or female) flirts with Shep so long as there is a polite way to say Shep isn't interested (think Liara in ME1).

Agreed. As it is... being friendly equals love interest.

[Robhuzz]

I think Casey Hudson already explained on twitter BW is improving the friendship paths so we'll actually have some dialogue even if you don't romance a character. Further I think he also stated Shepard will need to use a certain dialogue option to actually activate s/s romance dialogue. I was a little scared at first and I shuddered at the thought of a previously straight male character hitting on my male Shepard.

I still don't approve of suddenly turning straight characters into bi characters but at least this makes it tolerable if it works out as I think and there's no normal paragon dialogue that actually turns out to be flirty dialogue...

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

This has been an o/s problem for both Mass Effect games. Kaidan thinks femshep likes him if she's polite to him, my paragon Shep that wanted to romance Liara was forced into being somewhat rude to Kaidan just to let him know she wasn't interested. In ME2 I couldn't even let her chat to Jacob because I knew she'd end up flirting. So I'd be happy to see the romance conversations better handled, I don't really mind if a character (male or female) flirts with Shep so long as there is a polite way to say Shep isn't interested (think Liara in ME1).

Agreed. As it is... being friendly equals love interest. 

This is why I thought the symbols in DA2's dialogue wheel were a HUGE improvement. It actually stopped me from accidently flirting with Fenris with my MaleHawke. Who ever thought offering fenris to help him learn to read is meant as a flirt...

Modifié par Robhuzz, 15 juin 2011 - 11:54 .

[Gheth O]

They didn't say that no one will turn bi ? Same sex relationship concern just the new squadmate no ?

[Sarcastic Tasha]

I don't get the "straight characters turning bi" thing that people don't seem to like. Isn't it more like finding out a character is (and always was) bisexual when you just assumed the character was straight. IRL people assume I'm straight all the time, I don't care but I would certainly think it strange if they complained when they found out they were wrong "hey you were straight before and now your not, that's such bad writing!"