517 réponses à ce sujet

[ipgd]

Niddy' wrote...

Same Sex people are just like talimancers, they won't be happy until everyone in the game turns gay.

How exactly does this analogy work? Do Talimancers want all LIs to turn into Tali now or something?

[Badpie]

78stonewobble wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Niddy' wrote...

Same Sex people are just like talimancers, they won't be happy until everyone in the game turns gay.

Yes because the goal here is to "turn people gay" and not at all about getting equal options.  Clearly those who support same sex romance want to TAKE EVERYTHING AWAY FROM YOU!  MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

No.

Just no.

Well to be fair if you change an ingame character more to your liking you're taking it further from what another person likes about the character.

If the characters had been gay/bi/straight but set from the start of the whole franchise it wouldn't have been a "problem". Now people are used to them as they "are" ... Or atleast how they've built them up in their mind.

I don't really feel like there's anything in game aside from the active romance path to even suggest their sexual orientation.  At least not in a way that if you should decide to pursue it later it would be a huge leap for their character. 

[Badpie]

leggywillow wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

General question: if a close friend of many years turned out to be bisexual, would you accuse him or her of not respecting integrity, continuity, and overall quality?

LOL

Friend:  I-I have to tell you something.  I think I'm gay.
BSN User: WHAT?!
Friend:  I hope you'll support me in this and--
BSNU: HOW COULD YOU RETCON YOURSELF LIKE THIS?!
Friend: ....what.
BSNU:  I thought you had more respect for continuity than that!  You never indicated in the past that you were gay!
Friend: Look, it's something I've been quietly thinking about for years--
BSNU: You destroyed your characterization.  EVERYTHING IS RUINED FOREVER.  WHO IS YOUR WRITER?!

This is amazing.  Thank you. 

[upsettingshorts]

I retconned myself too. I used to be a jerk, now I'm just a dick.

In any case, I can't help but feel in general as if these arguments against S/S or "everyone is bisexual" are transparently self-serving and concealing an agenda. I have yet to read a convincing argument from any source - here or elsewhere, related to any subject gaming or otherwise - that conclusively proves some kind of rigid personality link to sexuality. But since I couldn't prove some underlying motivation, doing so wouldn't address the argument in the first place, and to level such an accusation at any particular individual would essentially be calling someone homophobic, and BioWare is probably going to do whatever they already planned anyway - I don't believe I've got anything else to add.

Short version:  I do not believe the premise for this criticism is valid. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 juin 2011 - 07:12 .

[DocLasty]

I just don't see what it takes away from the experience.

Ashely being bisexual doesn't make her any less of badass, strong, independent woman. A person's sexuality should actually be a rather minor note about their character; If John McClane turned out to be bisexual, would it make the Die Hard movies kick less ass? No, of course not. It doesn't change anything about his character, or at least not the parts that people like about him.

I could see if the game was forcing you to take a S/S path, but - at least in ME2 - I had no trouble figuring out what paths led to romance and what led to friendship. Most of the time, it was just common sense.

[Rinji the Bearded]

ipgd wrote...

Niddy' wrote...

Same Sex people are just like talimancers, they won't be happy until everyone in the game turns gay.

How exactly does this analogy work? Do Talimancers want all LIs to turn into Tali now or something?

I want Kaidan to be my kawaii onii-san.

[Sylvianus]

Badpie wrote...

Niddy' wrote...

Same Sex people are just like talimancers, they won't be happy until everyone in the game turns gay.

Yes because the goal here is to "turn people gay" and not at all about getting equal options.  Clearly those who support same sex romance want to TAKE EVERYTHING AWAY FROM YOU!  MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

No.

Just no.

And ?

The relevance of his argument remains. There is no reason to change everything for all characters. " Mwhahahahaa they are all bi. "That's sucks.

Add an option to the detriment of what has already been done for only social reasons out of the game, it is really  stupid and not at all a legitimate point of view. In any case from the point of view of history, character's personality etc,  which many are concerned. And maybe not in the same way as you.

I'm not asking that all romances are black, it's just ridiculous. And even if it would be an option, it would be ridiculous. There is a world, there are rules in the universe that was created. You aren't the gods who are to handle their personality and how they are defined.

So no

Just no, indeed. Agreed we desagree.

[Pups_of_war_76]

What's going on in here?

[DocLasty]

How is it to the 'detriment of what has already been done'? How does S/S romances make things worse?

[slimgrin]

If the writing has any subtly whatsoever, the op's premise won't be a concern.

Garrus: "Hey shep, I've been meaning to tell you something. Been on my mind for a while now."

Shepard: "Uh, not right now Garrus. I've got some calibrations to check."



Problem solved.  

Modifié par slimgrin, 17 juin 2011 - 07:18 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Funny thing, no one is asking for everyone to be bi. It just seems to be the conclusion that everyone is jumping too.

[ipgd]

RinjiRenee wrote...


I want Kaidan to be my kawaii onii-san.

うわああ～カイダンはとってもかわいいですよおお～  ぶっかけお願いします（　･ω･）ﾉうぐう～

[slimgrin]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Funny thing, no one is asking for everyone to be bi. It just seems to be the conclusion that everyone is jumping too.

I just don't think every LI should be Bi. I do take issue with that.

Modifié par slimgrin, 17 juin 2011 - 07:25 .

[78stonewobble]

Badpie wrote...
I don't really feel like there's anything in game aside from the active romance path to even suggest their sexual orientation.  At least not in a way that if you should decide to pursue it later it would be a huge leap for their character. 

In your oppinion... In my oppinion it IS a huge leap and continuity problem.

Just different points of view thats all... but at odds...


Regarding the "no toggle off"... if it isn't necessary to toggle something off ... it isn't necessary to toggle it on is it? ...


To reiterate: I don't mind bi/gay li options ingame. IMHO just making every character bi would seem weird and a non elegant way messing with my interpretation of the characters... However it's nothing that would keep me from buying the game or anything. Just think it could be handled "better" in another way thats all.

[Rinji the Bearded]

ipgd wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...


I want Kaidan to be my kawaii onii-san.

うわああ～カイダンはとってもかわいいですよおお～  ぶっかけお願いします（　･ω･）ﾉうぐう～

キタ━━━(゜∀゜)━━━!!!!! 

[DocLasty]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

DocLasty wrote...

How is it to the 'detriment of what has already been done'? How does S/S romances make things worse?

I think it was about making current LIs bi. Characters should only have so much malleability (if I spelled it right).

But it's not that malleable at all. It's a completely common thing for someone to not openly talk about their sexuality or hold off telling their friends for whatever reason. Just because Ashely doesn't say she's into women doesn't mean she's not.

[Fidget6]

henno13 wrote...
 For example, I really don't want to talk to Garrus on the Normandy, and then he comes on to Shepard out of the blue, becasue that is what would happen under the current system.

Lol, except in the current system you have to come on to Garrus and it makes him extremely uncomfortable at first. When he talks about flexibility or whatever you have to say, "Why don't we test our flexibility?" or something along those lines horribly awkward and cheesy.

[Sylvianus]

Montezuma IV wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...


Add an option to the detriment of what has already been done for only social reasons out of the game, it is really  stupid and not at all a legitimate point of view. In any case from the point of view of history, character's personality etc,  which many are concerned. And maybe not in the same way as you.

Romance in general is done for social reason?

If not then what's the difference if they add S/S......think it through.

" equal options as an argument ? " what  is it  ? Think it through.

Do you really think that those who are interested in the side of the script, the story will be convinced by such a weak argument?

There are people that we can not romanticize, there are people who have guidelines, there are people who don't like what we like. There must be diversity. Straight, bi, gay. Turn all the romance in the last episode in bi, you really think that's a development of the story ? Obviously not. So yes, just no.

And we'll see for for the s/s.

[AtreiyaN7]

The lack of dialogue after a certain point is unrelated to the same-sex romance issue. It's just pretty standard to run out of things to talk about very quickly as far as ME goes. As for the potential of sudden bisexuality...how is it going to ruin things if <x> crewmember comes on to you? I don't think it will be that...flagrant, but even if it were, so? I'm assuming he/she won't jump you and that you can gently shoot down any advances from that person. I fail to see how this will suddenly "ruin" a character. If you're not interested, it's back to pure bromance or whatever your relationship with the hypothetically bi LI is.

[Fidget6]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Funny thing, no one is asking for everyone to be bi. It just seems to be the conclusion that everyone is jumping too.

I certainly don't want them to go the DA2 route. I want new same-sex LI's, not changing pre-established characters. I would accept Mordin (since although he has a very low sex-drive, gender does not seem to be an obstacle, as he tells maleshep that if he were to try human, he would try you), Jack (she's been with at least one woman before and has hinted she was bisexual), or Kasumi (we don't know enough about her yet, so it wouldn't seem so out of the blue) as bi, but pretty much any of the other characters suddenly deciding to start hitting on a same-sex Shep out of the blue would annoy me.

[78stonewobble]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Funny thing, no one is asking for everyone to be bi. It just seems to be the conclusion that everyone is jumping too.

Hehe good point...

Allthough so far I've seen (around the forums) arguments for/suggestions that the following characters could be/should be/are either gay/bi/straight.

Mshep/femshep
Ashley
Kaidan
Thane
Garrus
Tali
Joker
Kelly
Samara
Liara
Kasumi
Morinth
Grunt
Jacob
Miranda

I might have missed some...

PS. Now I feel sad for Legion and Boo...

[AngelicMachinery]

78stonewobble wrote...

Badpie wrote...
I don't really feel like there's anything in game aside from the active romance path to even suggest their sexual orientation.  At least not in a way that if you should decide to pursue it later it would be a huge leap for their character. 

In your oppinion... In my oppinion it IS a huge leap and continuity problem.

Just different points of view thats all... but at odds...


Regarding the "no toggle off"... if it isn't necessary to toggle something off ... it isn't necessary to toggle it on is it? ...


To reiterate: I don't mind bi/gay li options ingame. IMHO just making every character bi would seem weird and a non elegant way messing with my interpretation of the characters... However it's nothing that would keep me from buying the game or anything. Just think it could be handled "better" in another way thats all.

Admittedly,  I see no drastic change in a characters persona if they decide they want to try playing for the other team.  It happens on both sides of the field on occassion,  it isn't a change in who they are it's simply a change in if they like innies/outies/or could care less.  This doesn't really define who you are,  sure,  it is a change but the core of the mind/spirit/soul or what have you remains constant.  

I admit,  I don't advocate the "Everybodies bi" route myself,  but,  I also don't find myself going against it.  If it happens, it happens,  and Garrus isn't suddenly going ro be running around in pink armor exclaiming how fabolous everything was.  

As a breif aside, I think it would be HILARIOUS but it won't be happening.

As for the toggle,  even if it's meant to turn something ON or OFF it is still acting as a way to exclude people.  It doesn't matter,  the simple suggestion that a toggle is required shows how ass backwards things still are.