16 réponses à ce sujet

[kenng]

This probably seems like old hack to you veterans, but I am trying out a berserker/mage solo and these are my observations thus far about the differences in gameplay compared to a kensai/mage. The character in question is a human berserker (18 str/dex/con/int, 10wis, 8cha) to be dualled to a mage at lv9. It may also serve as a journal of sorts. I don't plan on no-reloading, and don't expect anything fancy. 

The game is a normal BG2+ToB install, plus patches and baldurdash fixes, no mods, normal difficulty (but start at normal for max hp). 

Irenicus' Dungeon

First major observation: The massive AC improvement from simply being able to wear splint mail does wonders for keeping me alive. Before this, my kensai was taking massive damage from every foe conceivable, even lowly goblin archers. Granted, my melee capabilities are a tad weaker, but this is offset by my longer longevity. Godsend against tougher foes like the cambion and when surrounded by crossbow-wielding duergars.

The first use of berserk came in the air portal room (the one with the genie). Normally, the memphits can be a handful (especially when one of them can stun, and the other blinds you to uselessness). This time, with a decent AC, I was able to avoid being hit (and blinded), and berserk prevented stun, so they was just little flying nuisances. My hp was still being chipped away from spells, but nothing that won't heal.

The second use of berserk came in the memphit portal room. I remember this part giving me fits because the radiant memphit had a rather high chance of sleeping my kensai (effectively a death sentence). Not with berserk, which made me immune. I was chuckling with glee as my character whacked away at the portals with impudence.

Other than that, the rest of the dungeon was quite uneventful. Hung onto as many scrolls as I could carry, the wand of cloudkill and some misc loot. 

Only annoyance - for some reason, time seemed to pass faster. I took 7 hours to exit the dungeon, meaning time was advanced to the next day. I know time has no significance in the game, but still annoying because I was aiming for 6 hours max. 

More to come later as I collect my thoughts.

[kenng]

After exiting the dungeon, sell off my excess loot and attempt the circus quest. Reach lv9 after answering the riddle, and I dual to mage immediately. Attain 5th lv in mage after reading my scrolls, rest to regain my spells and cast find familiar. Funny, it gives me more hp than normal.

Talk to Aerie, then contemplate how to attack the 2 orcs. Open up with fireball, then DUHM and whack them with staff. They eventually cave in. The gnome goes down to magic missiles and a whack of the staff.

Again, sell off loot, read scrolls, then leave for slums. After talking to Gaele, I leave to do the non-combat related quests (buried alive/skinner/no paladin though). After leaving bridge district, I encounter the slavers. I end up using my only cloudkill charge (no attack spells left). The xp from them and the mage's scrolls are just enough to get me to lv10, reactivating my berserker abilities.

I now head back to 7 vales den, rest, buff with stoneskin/blur/mirror image/pot of str/oil of speed, then open up the fight vs mencar and party with 2 fireballs, which take out the imp and wizard. I lure the barb and mencar downstairs, where I slay them both, before heading back upstairs. It takes me 2 reloads, but I finally manage to finish off the thief with magic missile before he flees. Their loot are mine (I keep the fullplate and cloak of non-detection, sell the rest).

Head back to slums to start the slaver quest. This is the easy part, just weak mooks which I have no trouble finishing off. Head down to the sewer, I end up using 1 berserk against the hobgoblin party to avoid their hold persons. Fast forward to the slaver's compound, which isn't any problem either (another use of berserk here against the wizards' hold person/confusion spells).

Will continue typing tomorrow, but I have just obtained celestial fury and am about to enter the planar prison. lv9/12, close to 13. Berserk really saved the day, preventing stun by Koshi (the fighter wielding celestial fury), stun from power word: stun by the mage in the sewers, and I am looking forward to it warding against the demon's paralyze in the prison. I can see why people are praising the berserker so, its special ability can really trivialise these save-or-die encounters which used to give my other characters fits.

For most combats, I pre-buff, then wear my fullplate and go to town. This means no combat spells/breaches etc, so I am thinking how to work around that. Contingency is working well so far, trying to shop around for a scroll of minor sequencer. But for now, sleep beckons. Also, where can I find a scroll of improved haste?

Modifié par kenng, 15 juin 2011 - 02:46 .

[touch_of_the_void]

You can buy one from the cutpurse who appears in the night time by Neb's house. Same chap sells Minor Spell Sequencer as well.

[kenng]

Quick update - now lv 9/14, just completed planar prison + maevar's quest, funny, xp seems to be flowing like water. Purchased a scroll of sequencer from copper coronet, look forward to using it vs the vampires. About to invade their lair.

Hmm...apparently, a fence sells minor sequencer scrolls at night at the bridge district. Time to check it out.

[AnonymousHero]

Just thought I'd mention it: You can also buy Imp. Haste from the merchant in the tent (beside the Djinni tent) if you've completed the Trademeet quests. (The merchant apparently has the exact same store inventory as the cutpurse.)

[kenng]

Currently 9/16, but taking a break from it, since I believe I have had enough experience with it to make the necessary conclusions. 
All in all, I find that yes, it does appear to offer more options/versatility than the classic kensai/mage build. The usefulness of berserk cannot be understated, though its duration isn't all that long, so you are far from invulnerable, and there is a tendency to want to save it for the "big fights", so there are still times when I overestimate myself and get held/confused by regular mooks like hobgoblins and yuanti. 

For a kensai/mage, your eq choices are more or less dictated by what you cannot use (eg: ioun stones because no helms, robes because no armour). Normally, this isn't a problem; you are still more powerful than a single-classed mage because of your superior thaco/hp. However, it is all too easy to forget the utility of even a simple set of fullplate. I do find I am more reliant on buffs, since as a K/M, I typically open up combat with an AoE spell like skull-trap or sunfire, something I can't quite do as often as a B/M due to armour disabling spells. Or maybe I am not playing right, I dunno. 

Anymore tips/hints/observations/feedback you wish to add, please do so. I will likely have overlook some aspects, so would appreciate the extra heads-up. 

[Dante2377]

You always have the option if you want to do more than pre-buff to not wear armor for a given fight. The deeper you go and the more enemy Mages you get to, you'll find you use the armor less and less. Just buy the Bracers AC3 and go from there, it's only 2 AC pts worse than full plate.

[Windfoot]

I've been playing around with the B/M build as well (doing it solo).

I'm doing the B(8)/M(31) rather than the B(9)/M(30) {assuming you're keeping the cap at 8M exp} This makes it alot easier to unlock the Berserker. I'm working on the premise at higher levels you'll be using tenser's transformation anyways to reach the THAC0 that a high level fighter would have. The only way I could make this work is to clear all of the beginning dungeon and switch before exiting. This allowed me to learn all the scrolls found there and to take out somem loot too. (I don't cheat in scroll cases or bags of holding) The down side is I threw away about 68k worth of exp. after learning all those scrolls and getting the quest exp from exiting the beginning dungeon I was B(8)/M(8) with only 32k exp to level 9 and unlocking the berserker.

imo, you're throwing away half of the beauty of a fighter/mage by wearing armor. Spirit armor = AC1...not as good as the best plate but damn good. Blur effectively gives you 3 better AC => -2, dex bonus for 18 => -6 add a shield (-1) with dakkon's zerth blade(-1) =>-8 which is damn close to the best fighter's and with the blade you get and extra 1, 2, 3 and 4th level spell (note: the effect of blur wil not show up on character screen so you should show -5 with it being effectively -8) also, you can wear the robe of vecna on top of this to lower casting time and give 10% magic resistance.

[Windfoot]

Bah, forgot to add helm (-1), ring (-2), ring of gygax (-2), cloak of sewers (-1) for a total of -14 (-11 on char screen)

[silenceall]

Windfoot, you can add Improved Invisibility for another -4 and if you're gonna use a shield for AC purposes it better be one that gives better than -1...

[kenng]

 But...but...,my avatar just looks so cool with fullplate!!! 

I think you have a point, but as mentioned earlier, my decision to wear armour was more out of a desire to conserve spells, seeing as to how my berserker9 part suffices in dealing with the normal riff-raff you encounter in Amn. You are right in that the beauty of the combination is somewhat lost though, because I cannot cast spells, and prebuffing is not always possible (such as with the slaver ambushes).

I am also falling back on ghost armour, because spirit armour uses up precious 4th lv slots which could have been extra stoneskins/improved invis. The loss of +3 to spell saves is much bemoaned though, being one of my bigger weaknesses. And potions of invulnerability seem ridiculously hard to find. The fence in the sewers sells only cursed versions!  

That said, I don't know if it is just my selective memory, but I do find I am missing more than usual. Not sure if that loss of +2 to-hit/3damage is really so much of a big deal (after bracers of expertise), but foes are noticeably taking longer to die. 

Lastly, this is also the 1st time I am playing at 60 frames. Gameplay goes so much more quickly and smoothly. Why didn't I think of this before? 

[Dante2377]

@windfoot - Blur shows the -3 AC just fine on my character screen. It's the -4AC from Imp Invis that doesn't show up. Also, in a vanilla game, don't believe you can wear all those protection items together (although I usually tweak that with BG2 Tweaks too, but not everyone will).

@ kenng - what are you worried about getting +3 for save vs spells that your Berserker rage can't protect you from?

also, if you plan well enough and level squat the last bunch of mage levels (level squat = don't level up right away, but wait until you can jump several levels all at once) to the point where you reactivate your fighter class, you can take some of those proficiency points in fighter weapons and not stuck with wizard weapons. In this example, if you can collect enough XP while as a 5th level mage to jump directly to level 9 mage (e.g. after level 5, don't level up again until 135,000 XP), your 6th level mage proficiency can be spent on any weapon. Of course you need to be able to collect that much XP as just a 5th level mage, but it's doable.

[kenng]

I don't always rage, so there will definitely be times when the save to spells come in handy. There may be times when berserk runs out in the middle of a fight, so having low saves would still be paramount. Rage also doesn't protect against insta-kills spell; I recall my berserker having fallen to a finger of death spell more than once.

[ussnorway]

I have to say that this sort of reads like forcing a square peg into the round hole...
How did this unwashed warrior ever manage to adjust to the hours of study needed to learn scrolls?
Why be a mage at all when cleric allows you to wear that armour you love so much?
It's your game Kenng and Windfoot... more power to you!

[kenng]

Well, I set out simply to test for myself the effectiveness of the berserker/mage, so I didn't really bother seeking to rationalise how this combination came about. Maybe after being impressed by the mighty displays of magical might by Irenicus, our intrepid hero concluded that arcane magic was the quickest route to power to defeat everything that stood before him, so he decided to abandon his berserking ways?

[AnonymousHero]

I have to say that this sort of reads like forcing a square peg into the round hole...
How did this unwashed warrior ever manage to adjust to the hours of study needed to learn scrolls?

The description for the berserker kit explicitly states being a berserker may be a "concious choice that a warrior in training makes" (rather than just being "barbarian-like in nature".).

IMO a Berserker->Mage fit reasonably within that description.

Still, after reading the posts here, I agree that kenng's playing style may not really be suited to B->M. I wouldn't presume to tell other people how to play, but obviously, using armor on a B->M means you're foregoing the main strength of the B->M, namely combat-casting arcane magic.

[kenng]

AnonymousHero is spot on. I replayed a kensai/mage (again) today and I find that I am still most comfortable with it and the choices such a decision takes away (eg: being able to only wear robes means no more agonizing over what armour to wear).