96 réponses à ce sujet

[mmu1]

Chris Priestly wrote...

The surest way to promise cutscene cosistancy with weapons, is to offer a very limited number of weapons to choose from. So instead of needing to create 10 versions of the same scene with assasut rifle, pistol, sniper rifle, etc, etc, we just give you pistols. That way, your cutscenes are consistant.

That really what you want?

I suppose we could cut a lot of story and dialog to make room for all teh different weapon based cutscenes. Would that be better?

Sure, just cut  out the same sex romance crap. Or as much romance (of any kind) as necessary.  Win-win.

[Dave666]

Chris Priestly wrote...

The surest way to promise cutscene cosistancy with weapons, is to offer a very limited number of weapons to choose from. So instead of needing to create 10 versions of the same scene with assasut rifle, pistol, sniper rifle, etc, etc, we just give you pistols. That way, your cutscenes are consistant.

That really what you want?

I suppose we could cut a lot of story and dialog to make room for all teh different weapon based cutscenes. Would that be better?

Oh?  You would need to cut something in order to have the resources to implement it?

Then I nominate 'Kinect' and 'Mission Complete Screens'...

Cut those and you should have plenty of spare resources...

Modifié par Dave666, 16 juin 2011 - 12:07 .

[Chromie]

mmu1 wrote...

Sure, just cut  out the same sex romance crap. Or as much romance (of any kind) as necessary.  Win-win.

Just cut Tali. 

[Zkyire]

Ringo12 wrote...

mmu1 wrote...

Sure, just cut  out the same sex romance crap. Or as much romance (of any kind) as necessary.  Win-win.

Just cut Tali. 

Nobody cuts mah Tali!


Sidenote: I agree with the OP in that it would be a nice feature fo have, but I'm not that pushed either way. Sure it might "break your immersion" (what doesn't these days?) but it's not really that big of a deal.

[MadLaughter]

Priestly's post started well enough. A valid reason explained concisely. Then, of course, he adds the snark. I wish Bioware would have hired someone that actually liked the community he or she was supposed to manage.

[JayhartRIC]

I'm pretty sure it was just a joke.

[RainyDayLover]

Chris Priestly wrote...

The surest way to promise cutscene cosistancy with weapons, is to offer a very limited number of weapons to choose from. So instead of needing to create 10 versions of the same scene with assasut rifle, pistol, sniper rifle, etc, etc, we just give you pistols. That way, your cutscenes are consistant.

That really what you want?

I suppose we could cut a lot of story and dialog to make room for all teh different weapon based cutscenes. Would that be better?

Does it HAVE to be an Assault Rifle though? I think what bugs people is that when the class they're playing doesn't use an Assault Rifle and they see their character wielding one in a cutscene. Why not only use pistols/SMGs or a weapon that is common to all classes and NOT one that is restricted to a particular class?

[MadLaughter]

There are jokes, and then there's sarcasm. The latter is lazier and has an undercurrent of mean spirited-ness beneath it. Any number Bioware Employees, aside from David Gaider, perhaps, could have responded with the first paragraph and gotten the point across without trying to make the topic creator feel stupid.

[Krimson_Wolf]

I'm kinda hoping the cutscenes will be like Dead Space 1&2. No black or loading screen just fluid gaming fun. I think I've said this before either here or with my friends, but I hope BW is listening please make the cutscenes as canon friendly as possible.

[mcsupersport]

The cut-scenes already look at your armor and use your model to run the scene, why can't you just run a check on the weapon drawn at the time of trigger and use that ???? It shouldn't be any harder than checking for all the dlc armor's , helms, random pieces that can be put together to be used in the scenes?? And if you are trying to tell me it is, then I can't really say I believe you, because you CAN do it with all the pieces and styles of armor.

[Inspectre]

Chris Priestly wrote...

The surest way to promise cutscene cosistancy with weapons, is to offer a very limited number of weapons to choose from. So instead of needing to create 10 versions of the same scene with assasut rifle, pistol, sniper rifle, etc, etc, we just give you pistols. That way, your cutscenes are consistant.

That really what you want?

I suppose we could cut a lot of story and dialog to make room for all teh different weapon based cutscenes. Would that be better?

Wait... is this confirmation that each and every weapon will have different animations?  It's not going to be by type?

If so, awesome.

[Rivercurse]

How did you get that from what he said? :blinks:

[Jebel Krong]

RainyDayLover wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

The surest way to promise cutscene cosistancy with weapons, is to offer a very limited number of weapons to choose from. So instead of needing to create 10 versions of the same scene with assasut rifle, pistol, sniper rifle, etc, etc, we just give you pistols. That way, your cutscenes are consistant.

That really what you want?

I suppose we could cut a lot of story and dialog to make room for all teh different weapon based cutscenes. Would that be better?

Does it HAVE to be an Assault Rifle though? I think what bugs people is that when the class they're playing doesn't use an Assault Rifle and they see their character wielding one in a cutscene. Why not only use pistols/SMGs or a weapon that is common to all classes and NOT one that is restricted to a particular class?

you can use any weapon as any class in ME3 so it won't matter. i think people ignore/don't understand how difficult it is to render the in-game scenes - you can't just drop in/out weapons specifically, and really - does it matter that much?

[Beerfish]

onelifecrisis wrote...



I'm not raging at the lack of weapon consistency in cutscenes (I already said earlier in the thread it's not important to me). I'm raging at the BS. I hate being BSed.

As for the weapon mechanics, it's a doddle. At certain points in each scene, Shepard (or whoever) fires. If he's using an auto weapon a burst is fired, if not then a single shot. It doesn't even need to be coded seperately - all of this info is in the weapons config file, which means the whole thing could be softcoded easily. All they need to do is put in the cutscene that Shepard fires here, here, and here.

I've been a software developer for 14 years. This is nowhere near as hard a CP makes it sound. They would need 2 mocap sets, that's all. Nothing else would need to be duplicated, and certainly nothing would need to be done 10 times.

If you are going to base it on two weapon sets you would need two cutscenes for each cutscene instance and you would have to check which weapon the player had equipped just before the cutscene starts via script.  You would have to be very aware of the differences in the weapons for movement and such and might have to move characters around.  This is not trivial.

If you want to test this out a bit get the Dragon Age toolset, create a cutscene then account for the player attacking as a mage, as a 2 handed fighter, as a dual wielding fighter and as a sword and board fighter.

[Whyp_2]

I don't really mind. Assault rifles are cool. It looks better when the whole teams fires rapid fire with their gun. It would look stupid if two where using AR and someone a shotgun and someone a sniper. I mean it would laugh myself to death of stupidity

[Beerfish]

mcsupersport wrote...

The cut-scenes already look at your armor and use your model to run the scene, why can't you just run a check on the weapon drawn at the time of trigger and use that ???? It shouldn't be any harder than checking for all the dlc armor's , helms, random pieces that can be put together to be used in the scenes?? And if you are trying to tell me it is, then I can't really say I believe you, because you CAN do it with all the pieces and styles of armor.

Your armour in essence is your body and skeleton and adheres pretty close to the body, no problems there.  You can have the actor in the cutscene do most things and armour does not affect things.  You could check to see what weapon they have but then you have to account for the space difference, possible different animations and such for actually doing anything with the weapon.

I do agree with the people asking about the actors in a cutscene holding inappropriate weapons though that is for sure.  Even a small thing to help immersion would be nice such as showing the player unequip their present weapon and take out the weapon to be used in the cutscene would help rather than having those 'bing!' moments of the player suddenly holding a different weapon.

[Blooddrunk1004]

Chris Priestly wrote...

The surest way to promise cutscene cosistancy with weapons, is to offer a very limited number of weapons to choose from. So instead of needing to create 10 versions of the same scene with assasut rifle, pistol, sniper rifle, etc, etc, we just give you pistols. That way, your cutscenes are consistant.

That really what you want?

I suppose we could cut a lot of story and dialog to make room for all teh different weapon based cutscenes. Would that be better?

Yeah sure, game is 9 months away from release. Development team sure has time too implent crap - Kinect support  but they sure don't have enough time to polish cutscenes for specific class.

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 16 juin 2011 - 02:38 .

[Tasker]

mcsupersport wrote...

The cut-scenes already look at your armor and use your model to run the scene, why can't you just run a check on the weapon drawn at the time of trigger and use that ???? It shouldn't be any harder than checking for all the dlc armor's , helms, random pieces that can be put together to be used in the scenes?? And if you are trying to tell me it is, then I can't really say I believe you, because you CAN do it with all the pieces and styles of armor.

Always wondered the same thing myself. Not doing it with weapons is just lazy.

You could put it down to needing different animations for the characters but surely you only need one animation for each weapon type - not each individual weapon, and you just need to specify a weapon priority list.


Cutscenes should go something along the lines of ...

What armour is character equipped with?  -  Display equipped armour.

What is the weapon priority order?  -  Pistol/Shotgun/Assault/Sniper

What weapons is character equipped with?  -  Display first equipped weapon type from priority list.

What weapon type is selected for display?  -  Load animation for equipped weapon type.



Yes this still adds up to a fair few animations given the amount of characters but how many cutscenes actually have more than Shep and 2 team mates in and how many have anyone other than Shep with their weapons drawn?


At most, each character needs 4 animations for the weapon types. So number of actual weapons being a factor is rubbish.



-Edit-

Changed the wording to be a little less antagonistic.

Modifié par Orkboy, 16 juin 2011 - 02:54 .

[Daiyus]

Orkboy wrote...

At most, each character needs 4 animations for the weapon types. So number of actual weapons being a factor is either down to rubbish programing or laziness.

It wouldn't even be four. It's been confirmed that squad mates still only carry two weapons, so that's two apiece. If you want to simplify it further you could just set it so each party member always uses a specific weapon type, so Tali always uses a Pistol, Garrus always uses an Assault Rifle, etc. At least there wouldn't be completely irrelevant weapons coming from nowhere.

Don't  get me wrong, I still think it's a minor thing, but I don't think it's as complicated as people make out (although it's not exactly easy either).

[Tasker]

Daiyus wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

At most, each character needs 4 animations for the weapon types. So number of actual weapons being a factor is either down to rubbish programing or laziness.

It wouldn't even be four. It's been confirmed that squad mates still only carry two weapons, so that's two apiece. If you want to simplify it further you could just set it so each party member always uses a specific weapon type, so Tali always uses a Pistol, Garrus always uses an Assault Rifle, etc. At least there wouldn't be completely irrelevant weapons coming from nowhere.

Don't  get me wrong, I still think it's a minor thing, but I don't think it's as complicated as people make out (although it's not exactly easy either).

Actually, that's a good point.

Each character using pre-set weapon types would cut down the number of animations needed.

And, surely when it comes to the individual weapons themselves - each one should already have it's own set of unique firing animations and sounds attached to it anyway, so it's not as if they have to be specially animated for the cutscenes, just the characters need to be.

Modifié par Orkboy, 16 juin 2011 - 02:54 .

[Clonedzero]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The problem with the "10 different types of weapon animations" claim is that, for instance, seeing Jack, Thane, and Miranda in a SM cutscene wielding assault rifles is just *wrong*. None of them can use assault rifles, and yet they were programmed to be in that cut scene using them.

I'm not saying check to make sure Jack is using the GPS over the Eviscerator, but if you're going to dedicate the resources to putting her in a cutscene, can't you at least make her be using a shotgun?

I don't care if it's not the specific weapon they're using, but each squadmate should have a weapon type they pull out in cut scenes.

Ashley: Assault Rifle
Kaiden: Pistol
Wrex: Shotgun
Garrus: Assault Rifle
Liara: Pistol
Tali: Shotgun
Miranda: SMG
Jacob: Who cares, nobody ever uses him
Grunt: Shotgun
Jack: Shotgun
Mordin: Pistol
Samara: Assault Rifle
Thane: SMG
Zaeed: Assault Rifle
Kasumi: SMG
Legion: Assault Rifle

yeah, except make legion and garrus use sniper rifles. if you have garrus or legion using assault rifles you're doing it wrong

[onelifecrisis]

-Moderator edit:
Do not respond to posts with comments like "Fail harder." This is considered flame bait, and is a punishable offense if repeated enough.
-

Modifié par javierabegazo, 16 juin 2011 - 06:16 .

[Beerfish]

-Please don't respond to flamebaiting-

Modifié par javierabegazo, 16 juin 2011 - 06:17 .

[mineralica]

Clonedzero wrote...

yeah, except make legion and garrus use sniper rifles. if you have garrus or legion using assault rifles you're doing it wrong

Not all of cutscenes happen when enemy is in suitable range for sniper rifle. For example, Thane's recruitment when he walks before one of the squadmate - snipers will look strange.
Just occured to me - the end of Earth demo for ME3 where Shepard runs to Normandy, Ashley shoots from Avenger. Please tell me what if Kaidan is going to shoot, it will be SMG instead of AR. Please?

[onelifecrisis]

Beerfish wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...



I'm not raging at the lack of weapon consistency in cutscenes (I already said earlier in the thread it's not important to me). I'm raging at the BS. I hate being BSed.

As for the weapon mechanics, it's a doddle. At certain points in each scene, Shepard (or whoever) fires. If he's using an auto weapon a burst is fired, if not then a single shot. It doesn't even need to be coded seperately - all of this info is in the weapons config file, which means the whole thing could be softcoded easily. All they need to do is put in the cutscene that Shepard fires here, here, and here.

I've been a software developer for 14 years. This is nowhere near as hard a CP makes it sound. They would need 2 mocap sets, that's all. Nothing else would need to be duplicated, and certainly nothing would need to be done 10 times.

If you are going to base it on two weapon sets you would need two cutscenes for each cutscene instance and you would have to check which weapon the player had equipped just before the cutscene starts via script.  You would have to be very aware of the differences in the weapons for movement and such and might have to move characters around.  This is not trivial.

If you want to test this out a bit get the Dragon Age toolset, create a cutscene then account for the player attacking as a mage, as a 2 handed fighter, as a dual wielding fighter and as a sword and board fighter.

You apparently didn't read the previous posts. Fail harder.

Nice logical counter post, rude and provides zero rebuttle information. 

Yeah I was only half awake when I wrote that.

Re. your second paragraph:
Swords and axes and spells are different. There's more types, and they are nothing like each other (nor are they anything like guns). It's basically a straw man argument. If we're going to talk ME let's talk ME.

Re. your first paragraph:
Yeah, you have to check which weapon the player had equipped. You somehow managed to make that sound like a lot of work. It's not. And differences in movement? This would hold true for the swords and spells and whatnot, but these are guns we're talking about. You aim them and shoot. That's true of all guns. I don't see a problem, and certainly nothing that would result in the need to "move characters around".