1008 réponses à ce sujet

[Foolsfolly]

I think the big issue that everyone is forgetting here is the strategic importance of Mages.

I would have agreed if only Origins existed. However, DA2 added the concept that stressed mages turn into abominations. That the very fact that they're faced with death causes them to change over (We even see that Templar's daughter do just that).

So...let's add that to the chaos and stress of warfare...

...

...yeah, they can have their own forces tear themselves apart as demons and abominations destroy without thought. I'll take dedicated and trained warriors any day.

Or tech. Someone should develop gunpowder outside of the Qunari. There's plenty of reason to do it, namely mages are unreliable and the Templars are uneasy about letting mages go off to war.

[TEWR]

Furtled wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...
As far as DA2 goes however, I don't meet a non-Bethany mage that's worth dying for. They're all abominations and blood mages who would harm far more innocents.

Except Emile, who's just a misguided idiot and Fenreyl who's (depending on the players decisions) either a frightened young man or the most dangerous mage in Thedas (with god awful taste in women). 

I wouldn't blame Feynriel. He just used his powers to save her. He didn't have a crush on her. Not his fault that she's fallen for a man she only knows in her dreams.

[Harid]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...


Killing most of the mages is political and strategic suicide. If Nevarra alone decides "you know what? We're just going to go with this revolution thing" Then Orlais is going to be a smoking crater in the ground. If we don't have enough mages at the end of this, the Qunari or Tevinter will be ruling all of Thedas in mere centuries.

You could say that such things make it a bad idea for mages to revolt, because opening the door to the Qunari is tantamount to suicide. I agree that it is a risk, but a risk worth taking.

I think a few centuries is more than enough time to hit a reset button.  And when you cut down a rebellion, you generally wouldn't kill everyone.  You would still have the loyalists there.

Any aggressors would have to attack within decades.

But like I stated before, why would any non mage just go with this revolution thing.  It's essentially, working against your best interests.

Even if Orlais becomes a smoking crater, I am pretty sure the Chantry would persist with the people, with every mage in Thedas proving the chantry teachings to be true through the bedlam mage revolutions would cause and the destruction mages would leave in their wake.

You need to understand something.  Mages aren't going to destroy the chantry.  Hawke will not either, nor your warden.  Only the people will.

Modifié par Harid, 17 juin 2011 - 01:18 .

[DPSSOC]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I think the big issue that everyone is forgetting here is the strategic importance of Mages.

I would have agreed if only Origins existed. However, DA2 added the concept that stressed mages turn into abominations. That the very fact that they're faced with death causes them to change over (We even see that Templar's daughter do just that).

So...let's add that to the chaos and stress of warfare...

Isn't Kirkwall sort of a special case for that?  I seem to recall someone mentioning that the Veil is thin their, making it easier for demons to slide in and out.  Maybe, in Kirkwall, when mages are in fear of death demons offer to save them and, terrified, they accept.  This couldn't happen anywhere the Veil is stable and is just a phenomenon of Kirkwall.  Now if this is the case why the hell would you have a Circle there?

[DPSSOC]

Filament wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh yeah that's silly. But they can if they desired do alot more damage than one nuke. 

Turning into an abomination, it's unlikely they'd do nearly as much damage as a nuke (considering, the Hiroshima nuke killed hundreds of thousands, and nukes now are orders of magnitude more powerful). Abominations are generally within the people of Thedas' power to contain with enough brute force. The most powerful abominations might have a shot, but even the ones we've seen... Connor, Uldred, Baroness... didn't do nearly that kind of damage.

Relative terms my friend.  How many people could one abomination kill before it was brought down?  50? 100?  Now compare that to the most common warrior.  A dozen, maybe 2?  No abominations are not nearly as dangerous as nukes but they are vastly more dangerous than anything your average soldier/guardsmen is capable of handling.

[Furtled]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I wouldn't blame Feynriel. He just used his powers to save her. He didn't have a crush on her. Not his fault that she's fallen for a man she only knows in her dreams.

Ahh I like Feynriel (damn tricky name for spelling aside!), no harm in him killing some would be rapists. The fact he can do it from all the way over in Tevinter is a *smidge* scary power wise, but my Hawkes have nearly always trusted him not to abuse his powers (which in all likelyhood might come back and bite them on the arse later but never mind).

Modifié par Furtled, 17 juin 2011 - 01:24 .

[TEWR]

DPSSOC wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

I think the big issue that everyone is forgetting here is the strategic importance of Mages.

I would have agreed if only Origins existed. However, DA2 added the concept that stressed mages turn into abominations. That the very fact that they're faced with death causes them to change over (We even see that Templar's daughter do just that).

So...let's add that to the chaos and stress of warfare...

Isn't Kirkwall sort of a special case for that?  I seem to recall someone mentioning that the Veil is thin their, making it easier for demons to slide in and out.  Maybe, in Kirkwall, when mages are in fear of death demons offer to save them and, terrified, they accept.  This couldn't happen anywhere the Veil is stable and is just a phenomenon of Kirkwall.  Now if this is the case why the hell would you have a Circle there?

More than likely the Chantry purposely established it there to reinforce the notion that "mages are dangerous and cannot be allowed to roam the world!".


They probably knew about the Veil and used it to strengthen their position over mages. Add into that the fact that Leliana practically says the Divine will call an Exalted March on Kirkwall, and I think they were just waiting for the opportunity to present itself.

They just didn't see Meredith happening. Idiots...


I wonder if Sketch knows about Leliana being a Seeker. I wonder if anti-mage Leliana (if that's what she truly is now) would have no qualms about slaying Sketch.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Foolsfolly wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
So are you saying that if you were raped in a system where your rapist would not be punished, you would not use all resources in your power to prevent it, or to revenge yourself? Are you saying that if someone was going to destroy your mind, you would not attempt to harm them or resist them with every fibre of your being?

The point isn't that mages deserve complete autonomy. The point is that they are now in a system where the only hope for justice or vengeance is blood magic. If there was an independent, non-chantry-related council that tried and punished and in some cases executed templars found guilty of abuse, then I do not think the revolt would have ever happened. If there had been any sign from the Chantry that they were willing to start making things gradually better for mages, that they would actually move to quell the abuse internally, to do only what is necessary to keep others safe, not go insanely out of control. They've shown no indication of that whatsoever.

Of course I would.

The system's broken. I'm not going to disagree about that. I will say that both sides got covered in evil hoping that alone would add depth to the issue. Most mages you meet are evil. You hear stories about rapings and beatings. They're tranquiling mages who pass their Harrowing. They had to have a Knight Commander as insane as Meredith and they had to have only a handful of non-insane/blood mage mages in order to tell a story. Which was a huge mistake. I feel DA2 took an interesting aspect of Origins and completely ruined it. I find the whole Mage/Templar relationship much less interesting now. The lack of fraternities and both sides having less decent people than terrible people was a mistake.

They throw these things into the story and add no real depth to the issue at hand, in fact the game avoids the issues until the last act and then...look here they have nothing to say about the issue!

Tune in next time, DA fans. Same DA price. New DA game!

To the essense of your post however, yes they're oppressed and to get anything out of the system they have to challenge that system. Yes, the Kirkwall mages are horrendously oppressed.

As far as DA2 goes however, I don't meet a non-Bethany mage that's worth dying for. They're all abominations and blood mages who would harm far more innocents.

Remember the Circles exist for a reason.

EDITED: In this case more is not less. (I had more instead of less, sentence now makes sense)

What about Hawke? Whether he is a mage or not, Hawke would not exist if it weren't for his father being an apostate.

You are basically saying, as Hawke "It would be better I was not given a chance to exist. The world would be a better place if it were a place where my parents never met, where myself and my siblings were never born." At the end of a Templar playthrough Hawke should kill himself, in continued support of a world where he only exists because his father committed the unpardonable, unreasonable crime of wanting to be free.

/hyperbole

I think too few people in this argument ask themselves this question: "What would I do if I were born a mage? What would I do if I were in the circle, raped or beaten, or even if I simply fell in love with a girl and we were prevented from ever being together because mages marrying mages is WRONG." 

We can't choose how we're born, and a mage can't stop being a mage. The fact that you were born without magic (if you were born without magic) is just a random chance of fate. If, every time you stab a mage through the heart with a sword, you aren't asking "what would I do in his place?" You are doing it wrong.

The same thing goes for mages. They must put themselves in the place of someone born without magic. If you aren't thinking "what would I do in his place" every time you fireball a Templar, you are also doing it wrong.

However for me, the answer to the question of mages is usually "probably starting a revolution." and my answer to the question about the templars is "probably being nice to mages, doing everything I can to see that I take as few freedoms away from them as possible." If I were born a mage, I would be fighting. If I were born a non-magical person, I would be trying to hurt the mages as little as possible, while still keeping them and others safe. "Do as little damage as possible" would be my motto. That does not seem to be the motto of the majority of Templars.

Neither my Warden nor my Hawke are mages, but they are all deeply sympathetic to the cause, because they can imagine what it would be like to be a mage, and what they would do in their place. And, both of them being strong, free, independent, magnificent bastards, they would fight.

But they would not fight to the point where there was no structure. They'd fight for basic rights and freedoms. If the mages as a whole show an inability to compromise, I will turn on them very quickly. They will lose my sympathy. But there is little evidence that that will be the case. I will have to wait and see. As will whoever the DA3 protagonist is.

[Zanallen]

I think the real issue is that abominations, despite lore saying they are powerful and dangerous, are pretty much just melee mooks that explode when killed. It really downplays the supposed risk that mages are to the general populace.

[LobselVith8]

The Baconer wrote...

Harid wrote...

Not to mention dual classes don't exist in the Dragon Age lore anyway, so this exceptional warrior mage doesn't exist anyway.

First of all, Arcane Warrior.

Second, that's a game mechanic and entirely irrelevant in this conversation. There's nothing in the lore that states a mage can't train in the arcane arts and martial combat if he pleases.

That's what Malcolm Hawke did; he had martial skills and posed as a mercenary in the Free Marches, which is what brought him to Kirkwall.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zanallen wrote...

I think the real issue is that abominations, despite lore saying they are powerful and dangerous, are pretty much just melee mooks that explode when killed. It really downplays the supposed risk that mages are to the general populace.

I really dislike that about Origins. Abominations should have been like Arcane Horrors.

[Harid]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

Harid wrote...

Not to mention dual classes don't exist in the Dragon Age lore anyway, so this exceptional warrior mage doesn't exist anyway.

First of all, Arcane Warrior.

Second, that's a game mechanic and entirely irrelevant in this conversation. There's nothing in the lore that states a mage can't train in the arcane arts and martial combat if he pleases.

That's what Malcolm Hawke did; he had martial skills and posed as a mercenary in the Free Marches, which is what brought him to Kirkwall.

I am not certain what you are talking about, but how is being a merc and a mage two mutually exclusive things.  We fight merc mages. . .throughout both games.

He was known to be a mage in Kirkwall. . .

Modifié par Harid, 17 juin 2011 - 01:35 .

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

I think the real issue is that abominations, despite lore saying they are powerful and dangerous, are pretty much just melee mooks that explode when killed. It really downplays the supposed risk that mages are to the general populace.

I really dislike that about Origins. Abominations should have been like Arcane Horrors.

It should be something like this at the very least:

• Rage Abomination --- mindless drunkard trying to beat you up. Maybe some fire spells.
• Hunger Abomination --- tries to eat you. maybe some low level spells that vary.
• Sloth Abomination --- put you to sleep (akin to the sleep spell mages used in Origins) and use some low-mid tier spells.
• Desire and Pride Abominations --- extremely tough. Top tier spells. constantly changing their attacks so you have to change your method of attack so it's not too easy. I'd say they should keep the swirling vortex attack, but limit it to affect only one companion. Two at most.

[DPSSOC]

Filament wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Filament wrote...

Turning into an abomination, it's unlikely they'd do nearly as much damage as a nuke (considering, the Hiroshima nuke killed hundreds of thousands, and nukes now are orders of magnitude more powerful). Abominations are generally within the people of Thedas' power to contain with enough brute force. The most powerful abominations might have a shot, but even the ones we've seen... Connor, Uldred, Baroness... didn't do nearly that kind of damage.

Relative terms my friend.  How many people could one abomination kill before it was brought down?  50? 100?  Now compare that to the most common warrior.  A dozen, maybe 2?  No abominations are not nearly as dangerous as nukes but they are vastly more dangerous than anything your average soldier/guardsmen is capable of handling.

I'm not really disputing that. Mages are more dangerous than ordinary people, that's without question.

Yes but those are the terms you need to think of it in.  Nukes aren't scary because of their raw power.  If you were to tell someone the destructive force of one it'd just be a really big, weird number to them, it'd lack context.  It'd be like telling someone 100 years ago that you have 1 billion dollars.  They'd have no concept of what 1 billion is, all they know is that it sounds like a lot.  What makes nukes terrifying is their power in relation to conventional weaponry of the same type.  We're afraid of nukes, not because we know the amount of damage they can do, for example I have absolutely no idea of how much damage a 50 megatonne nuke is actually capable of, but simply because we know they're far more dangerous than normal missles or bombs.  That's what people comparing mages to nukes are referring to, the massive disparity between the amount of damage a single mage/abomination can do compared to the tools of convention.

[Ryzaki]

Filament wrote...
Turning into an abomination, it's unlikely they'd do nearly as much damage as a nuke (considering, the Hiroshima nuke killed hundreds of thousands, and nukes now are orders of magnitude more powerful). Abominations are generally within the people of Thedas' power to contain with enough brute force. The most powerful abominations might have a shot, but even the ones we've seen... Connor, Uldred, Baroness... didn't do nearly that kind of damage.

The magical power to compel people to do things and possibly compel nations to go to war has more potential, though it also seems a bit unlikely (you'd need a mage with the willingness and ability to do such a thing, it wouldn't be a simple thing to do)... and on the other hand, a nuke, in addition do destroying a whole city, could also very well embroil a nation in war. Think of 9/11, except all of NYC and its surrounding environs.

In terms of brute force, I don't think we've seen a seen a spell reach anywhere near the destructive potential of a nuke. Though it might be possible with a horrid amount of ritual sacrifices, such as the amount that possibly was used in the possible experiment which possibly created the darkspawn. (possibly)

In any case yeah it's a bit silly to compare these things. Nukes don't kill people, people kill people. Mage people kill people particularly easily.

I'm talking about blodmages. And they can easily outdamage a nuke. A nuke's true damage lies in the fact that it recks land and kills large amounts of people. Loads of bloodmagic sacrifices tends to wreck the land...and kill lots of people. It doesn't spoil as much as a nuke would but it spoils it for far longer. 

And Conner would've slaughtered an entire village on his own if not for the Warden. They do *plenty* of damage until someone stong enough can put them in their place. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 juin 2011 - 01:43 .

[Foolsfolly]

I think too few people in this argument ask themselves this question: "What would I do if I were born a mage? What would I do if I were in the circle, raped or beaten, or even if I simply fell in love with a girl and we were prevented from ever being together because mages marrying mages is WRONG."

And if you were born without magic you wouldn't feel that way. You'd think at any moment a mage could kill you because they've lost control. Which happens, and apparently really fricken often. You wouldn't want to ****** them off, you'd want them killed off so you could live without fear.

And people fear what they don't understand and the average non-mage does not know anything about magic. So, strictly speaking, I doubt you'd want to give them more freedom. Especially with Tevinter sitting up north as a shining example to every zealot of "what happens when mages are given freedom."

Meredith's insane and largely one-dimensional but she's right that people would demand blood for the Chantry explosion. In fact, there'd be crying for mage blood every time someone died mysteriously. We live in a world without magic and there are still people killed in the name of witchcraft.

Imagine how the normal people of Thedas think of mages.

[LobselVith8]

Harid wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

Harid wrote...

Not to mention dual classes don't exist in the Dragon Age lore anyway, so this exceptional warrior mage doesn't exist anyway.

First of all, Arcane Warrior.

Second, that's a game mechanic and entirely irrelevant in this conversation. There's nothing in the lore that states a mage can't train in the arcane arts and martial combat if he pleases.

That's what Malcolm Hawke did; he had martial skills and posed as a mercenary in the Free Marches, which is what brought him to Kirkwall.

I am not certain what you are talking about, but how is being a merc and a mage two mutually exclusive things.  We fight merc mages. . .throughout both games.

He was known to be a mage in Kirkwall. . .

Malcolm wasn't a known mage, not according to "The Fugitive's Mantle" codex:

"Malcolm Hawke ranged the breadth of the Free Marches as he ran from the templars who pursued him. He often posed as a mercenary, and his substantial martial skills easily secured him positions in different bands. On one assignment for the Crimson Oars he was sent to Kirkwall, the seat of templar power in the region. He had every intention of staying there briefly, but fate had other plans."

Malcolm hid his skills as a mage because he had martial skills, and acted as a mercenary throughout the Free Marches. He didn't act as a mercenary mage, he acted as a mercenary based on his martial skills. This is supported in the "Malcolm's Bequest" codex:

"In Kirkwall, Malcolm met Leandra and, despite all common sense, courted her. The few times Leandra managed to slip away from her family, Malcolm showed her a whole new world, something completely different from her cloistered existence. It was dangerous, forbidden, and she quickly fell madly in love with the dashing Malcolm Hawke. These stolen moments would end all too soon.

One day, while fighting the Carta on the docks, Malcolm used magic to save the life of the Crimson Oars' leader. The Kirkwall templars were alerted, but Malcolm wouldn't flee the city without seeing his love one last time. He devised to meet her at the masked ball for the visiting Orlesian Empress.

Disguised in Orlesian robes, Malcolm slipped past the templars to dance with his love. At the end of the night, Leandra would not hear his goodbyes and chanced at happiness rather than face her gray prearranged future. Malcolm and Leandra ran into the night and never looked back. "

[Foolsfolly]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

I think the real issue is that abominations, despite lore saying they are powerful and dangerous, are pretty much just melee mooks that explode when killed. It really downplays the supposed risk that mages are to the general populace.

I really dislike that about Origins. Abominations should have been like Arcane Horrors.

It should be something like this at the very least:

• Rage Abomination --- mindless drunkard trying to beat you up. Maybe some fire spells.
• Hunger Abomination --- tries to eat you. maybe some low level spells that vary.
• Sloth Abomination --- put you to sleep (akin to the sleep spell mages used in Origins) and use some low-mid tier spells.
  Desire and Pride Abominations --- extremely tough. Top tier spells. constantly changing their attacks so you have to change your method of attack so it's not too easy. I'd say they should keep the swirling vortex attack, but limit it to affect only one companion. Two at most.

It is extremely odd that anything would possess a mage and think "And now I'll go melee!"

Glass Cannons turn into cannonfodder in two steps.

Of course, they do say abominations are mindless....and man does it seem like it.

I will say, though, I support Arcane Horror-like Abominations instead of weak melee rushers.

[Harid]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Harid wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

Harid wrote...

Not to mention dual classes don't exist in the Dragon Age lore anyway, so this exceptional warrior mage doesn't exist anyway.

First of all, Arcane Warrior.

Second, that's a game mechanic and entirely irrelevant in this conversation. There's nothing in the lore that states a mage can't train in the arcane arts and martial combat if he pleases.

That's what Malcolm Hawke did; he had martial skills and posed as a mercenary in the Free Marches, which is what brought him to Kirkwall.

I am not certain what you are talking about, but how is being a merc and a mage two mutually exclusive things.  We fight merc mages. . .throughout both games.

He was known to be a mage in Kirkwall. . .

Malcolm wasn't a known mage, not according to "The Fugitive's Mantle" codex:

"Malcolm Hawke ranged the breadth of the Free Marches as he ran from the templars who pursued him. He often posed as a mercenary, and his substantial martial skills easily secured him positions in different bands. On one assignment for the Crimson Oars he was sent to Kirkwall, the seat of templar power in the region. He had every intention of staying there briefly, but fate had other plans."

Malcolm hid his skills as a mage because he had martial skills, and acted as a mercenary throughout the Free Marches. He didn't act as a mercenary mage, he acted as a mercenary based on his martial skills. This is supported in the "Malcolm's Bequest" codex:

"In Kirkwall, Malcolm met Leandra and, despite all common sense, courted her. The few times Leandra managed to slip away from her family, Malcolm showed her a whole new world, something completely different from her cloistered existence. It was dangerous, forbidden, and she quickly fell madly in love with the dashing Malcolm Hawke. These stolen moments would end all too soon.

One day, while fighting the Carta on the docks, Malcolm used magic to save the life of the Crimson Oars' leader. The Kirkwall templars were alerted, but Malcolm wouldn't flee the city without seeing his love one last time. He devised to meet her at the masked ball for the visiting Orlesian Empress.

Disguised in Orlesian robes, Malcolm slipped past the templars to dance with his love. At the end of the night, Leandra would not hear his goodbyes and chanced at happiness rather than face her gray prearranged future. Malcolm and Leandra ran into the night and never looked back. "

Hmm, Bioware broke open it's own lore.

I guess I can look forward to dual classes in the future.

[Ryzaki]

Filament wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I'm talking about blodmages. And they can easily outdamage a nuke. A nuke's true damage lies in the fact that it recks land and kills large amounts of people. Loads of bloodmagic sacrifices tends to wreck the land...and kill lots of people. It doesn't spoil as much as a nuke would but it spoils it for far longer. 

And Conner would've slaughtered an entire village on his own if not for the Warden. They do *plenty* of damage until someone stong enough can put them in their place. 

An entire village of hundreds, maybe thousands of people? And at least there are people powerful enough to put abominations in their place. Nukes can't be put in their place. Again, the comparison is a bit silly...

And what blood mage have we seen or heard of to ever do anywhere near the kind of damage of a nuclear bomb? "The magisters" doesn't really count as it's as much a system of government as it is mages. With the right organization governments can commit all kinds of atrocities. I mean a specific ritual or a specific mage who killed hundreds of thousands of people, at least. The closest you could point to, I think, is the darkspawn, but that's dubious. Also the sinking of Arlathan perhaps, though that's also dubious, and again that's more of a coordinated governmental war effort. We don't need magic to raze cities.

 
*shrugs* 

Oh well. I don't explain myself well. 

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I think too few people in this argument ask themselves this question: "What would I do if I were born a mage? What would I do if I were in the circle, raped or beaten, or even if I simply fell in love with a girl and we were prevented from ever being together because mages marrying mages is WRONG."

And if you were born without magic you wouldn't feel that way. You'd think at any moment a mage could kill you because they've lost control. Which happens, and apparently really fricken often. You wouldn't want to ****** them off, you'd want them killed off so you could live without fear.

And people fear what they don't understand and the average non-mage does not know anything about magic. So, strictly speaking, I doubt you'd want to give them more freedom. Especially with Tevinter sitting up north as a shining example to every zealot of "what happens when mages are given freedom."

Meredith's insane and largely one-dimensional but she's right that people would demand blood for the Chantry explosion. In fact, there'd be crying for mage blood every time someone died mysteriously. We live in a world without magic and there are still people killed in the name of witchcraft.

Imagine how the normal people of Thedas think of mages.

No, If I were born without magic, I would feel that way.  Because I'm clever and compassionate. Also witty and humble. Perhaps you would not think that way, and that is fine. Sometimes I think that I may have made a deal with a spirit of empathy myself. My cannon Warden and Hawke are both non-magical, and they both sympathize with mages. This is, in large part, because my Warden is Dalish and thus grew up with mages who were both helpful and free, and because my Hawke grew up with her father and sister. If I were simply a human noble who had never met a mage, it might be different, but I think things would have changed once I met Morrigan, or Wynne, or DA:A Anders.

Also, bear in mind that what the average person thinks or wants makes pretty much no difference in the world of Dragon Age. It's all up to Kings and Heroes and the Chantry and the Nobility.

Mages don't need to rely on the people accepting them. The people will do what their Kings tell them to. They'll follow the word of a Hero. And if some new Templars come marching into town saying they're from the church of Reconstructed Andrasteism, who are the people to care. As long as they do the same job that the old ones did, they won't.

Nevarra is the home of the biggest and most powerful circle of mages. They've been at war with Orlais for decades. There have got to be some Templars who believe that slightly freer mages would not be a bad thing. This is all Nevarra would have to do to benefit immensely from this war:

Recruit some moderate templars. Set them about training others under the veil of Reconstructed Andrasteism... a form of Andrasteism that is anti-slavery, restores the Canticles of Shartan, and basically says that current mainstream Andrasteism has been hijacked as a political tool by Orlais. Use your military to help the Nevarran circle break free, and roll out your new batch of Templars to kill all remaining unsympathetic Templars. Choose a new Divine (oh man oh man oh man, would I be happy with a Three Popes situation? YES. Yes I would.)

You now have the largest number of the most powerful and free mages, the blessing of the TRUE Divine, and an Orlais that is already extending itself almost to ruin by threatening Exalted Marches, invading Ferelden, and fighting the mage rebellion. You can finally crush your old rival, and the Mage Age can begin. I don't think this will necessarily happen... nobody seems clever or powerful enough to pull this off, but the point isn't that this exact scenario is likely.

The point is that Kings and Heroes steer the future, not the common people. So far every single Dragon Age has evidenced this pretty solidly.

Anders is counting on the idea that the next Hero who emerges will be a compassionate one. It looks like it's very likely that Anders overestimated humanity in many cases. But hey, you can't knock a man for having faith in heroes.

And in every universe I control, his faith will have been justified.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 17 juin 2011 - 02:24 .

[dragonflight288]

Qunari have technology where they lack magical skill. Only the mages were able to push them back. It is absolutely foolish to try and destroy the mages when they are your only chance of defeating a largscale Qunari invasion.