1008 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I wonder if Sketch knows about Leliana being a Seeker. I wonder if anti-mage Leliana (if that's what she truly is now) would have no qualms about slaying Sketch.

Really doubting Leliana is anti-mage when she's working together with Cassandra and trying to stop the all-out war with the rebelled mages. I mean, someone anti-mage would be very busy with just the opposite instead, like actually killing mages left, right and centre.

[mesmerizedish]

tmp7704 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I wonder if Sketch knows about Leliana being a Seeker. I wonder if anti-mage Leliana (if that's what she truly is now) would have no qualms about slaying Sketch.

Really doubting Leliana is anti-mage when she's working together with Cassandra and trying to stop the all-out war with the rebelled mages. I mean, someone anti-mage would be very busy with just the opposite instead, like actually killing mages left, right and centre.

Which is exactly what Varric says the entire Templar order did.

[dragonflight288]

I think people place Leliana into the anti-mage camp because she is playing messenger for the Divine and is investigating Kirkwall. She turns up the Resolutionists. Most investigators likely would call it a day at that.

She delivers a message from the Divine, and that message may be interpreted as anti-mage. Bad news kills the messenger first, after all.

[tmp7704]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Which is exactly what Varric says the entire Templar order did.

And Cassandra is quick to counter with the statement not all templars are like that or want that. Varric's preference for exaggeration should be well known at this point...

[DPSSOC]

Just had a thought on the original question, if the devs really wanted us to side with the Templars wouldn't they have given us a Templar companion? Or maybe 2, and make one of them an adorable rambling socially awkward young adult.

[tmp7704]

DPSSOC wrote...

Just had a thought on the original question, if the devs really wanted us to side with the Templars wouldn't they have given us a Templar companion? Or maybe 2, and make one of them an adorable rambling socially awkward young adult.

As well as female elf. People respond enthusiastically to socially awkward cute and young female elves.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

DPSSOC wrote...

Just had a thought on the original question, if the devs really wanted us to side with the Templars wouldn't they have given us a Templar companion? Or maybe 2, and make one of them an adorable rambling socially awkward young adult.

So, Cullen basically? Or Alistair? Hehe.

And to answer the original question as simply as possible, I think they wanted a 50-50 split. We don't know how close or far they got to that goal.

[DPSSOC]

tmp7704 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Just had a thought on the original question, if the devs really wanted us to side with the Templars wouldn't they have given us a Templar companion? Or maybe 2, and make one of them an adorable rambling socially awkward young adult.

As well as female elf. People respond enthusiastically to socially awkward cute and young female elves.

Pretty sure they could have done a dwarf.  Anything really so long as it was cute, young, socially awkward, female, and not human.

[Zanallen]

DPSSOC wrote...

Just had a thought on the original question, if the devs really wanted us to side with the Templars wouldn't they have given us a Templar companion? Or maybe 2, and make one of them an adorable rambling socially awkward young adult.

That is a good point. We've technically never had a templar companion. The closest is Alistair and he doesn't exactly rave about the Chantry or the templar order. The only realy devout companion in DA2 is Sebastian and he's DLC.

[Deztyn]

tmp7704 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Just had a
thought on the original question, if the devs really wanted us to side
with the Templars wouldn't they have given us a Templar companion? Or
maybe 2, and make one of them an adorable rambling socially awkward young adult.

As well as female elf. People respond enthusiastically to socially awkward cute and young female elves.

I suspect that even if such a character gleefully supported the total eradication of magekind the cuteness factor would win over most players in the end.

Modifié par Deztyn, 17 juin 2011 - 03:42 .

[tmp7704]

DPSSOC's point (as coy as he was about it) was i believe, the developers gave us two _mage_ companions, instead. So if you follow this train of logic...

[DPSSOC]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Just had a thought on the original question, if the devs really wanted us to side with the Templars wouldn't they have given us a Templar companion? Or maybe 2, and make one of them an adorable rambling socially awkward young adult.

So, Cullen basically? Or Alistair? Hehe.

Start of the mage origin Cullen maybe, DA2 Cullen didn't strike me as rambling or socially awkward.  Alistair could work, though I don't recall him rambling (in fairness only done 1 female DA:O playthrough).

[TEWR]

tmp7704 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I wonder if Sketch knows about Leliana being a Seeker. I wonder if anti-mage Leliana (if that's what she truly is now) would have no qualms about slaying Sketch.

Really doubting Leliana is anti-mage when she's working together with Cassandra and trying to stop the all-out war with the rebelled mages. I mean, someone anti-mage would be very busy with just the opposite instead, like actually killing mages left, right and centre.

Personally I find it impossible believe she's anti-mage as well. But some comments I've seen have been about how she's now anti-mage so that's why I brought it up.


Considering she admired Wynne, was friends with Sketch, and could potentially fall in love with a Mage Warden, her being anti-mage just wouldn't work.

[tmp7704]

Filament wrote...

Fenris was supposed to be Anders' foil. Merrill wasn't really a big part of the mage-templar conflict.

I guess she can be seen as argument against persecution and/or control of mages by the very fact of being a gigglesquee kind of person that happens to be a mage. I mean, the only way she could possibly get more people on the "awww, let mages do whatever they want" side of the argument is if she was a little pony. Maybe.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

DPSSOC wrote...
Pretty sure they could have done a dwarf.  Anything really so long as it was cute, young, socially awkward, female, and not human.

Are there elven Templars? Have we ever met a non-human Templar? And I mean a proper one, vows and all, not a runaway unavowed who happens to have the skills like Alistair, or any of the PCs.

I see no reason at all for anyone other than a human to become a Templar, and it wouldn't behoove the Templars to recruit any elves, because it's the Chantry that made the elves all promise to go to the Alienages and STAY THERE. While some elves may have actually converted, a lot of them are still deeply resentful of the system. And Dwarves have little reason to become Templars, either, with their general agnosticism and profit-loving natures.

And Alistair is very awkward and rambly. It's why the fangirls love him so.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 17 juin 2011 - 03:52 .

[TEWR]

DPSSOC wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Just had a thought on the original question, if the devs really wanted us to side with the Templars wouldn't they have given us a Templar companion? Or maybe 2, and make one of them an adorable rambling socially awkward young adult.

So, Cullen basically? Or Alistair? Hehe.

Start of the mage origin Cullen maybe, DA2 Cullen didn't strike me as rambling or socially awkward.  Alistair could work, though I don't recall him rambling (in fairness only done 1 female DA:O playthrough).

Cullen seemed to have trouble talking to the, as he put it, "young ladies" working in the Blooming Rose. I imagine that for the most part he's still awkward, but not this much:




I always think he ran off because he needed to get something off of his mind, if you catch my drift.

[TEWR]

tmp7704 wrote...

Filament wrote...

Fenris was supposed to be Anders' foil. Merrill wasn't really a big part of the mage-templar conflict.

I guess she can be seen as argument against persecution and/or control of mages by the very fact of being a gigglesquee kind of person that happens to be a mage. I mean, the only way she could possibly get more people on the "awww, let mages do whatever they want" side of the argument is if she was a little pony. Maybe.

Merrill's to show that the issue of blood magic isn't as black and white as the Chantry makes it out to be. And she's cute. Really cute

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 17 juin 2011 - 03:52 .

[Deztyn]

tmp7704 wrote...

Filament wrote...

Fenris was supposed to be Anders' foil. Merrill wasn't really a big part of the mage-templar conflict.

I guess she can be seen as argument against persecution and/or control of mages by the very fact of being a gigglesquee kind of person that happens to be a mage. I mean, the only way she could possibly get more people on the "awww, let mages do whatever they want" side of the argument is if she was a little pony. Maybe.

She's convinced everyone that making a deal with demons to achieve your goal is a good and noble thing-- I'm not sure even a pony could manage that.

Cute Elves > Ponies

Modifié par Deztyn, 17 juin 2011 - 03:56 .

[tmp7704]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I see no reason at all for anyone other than a human to become a Templar, and it wouldn't behoove the Templars to recruit any elves, because it's the Chantry that made the elves all promise to go to the Alienages and STAY THERE.

A city elf may see becoming a templar a pretty good way to climb the social ladder -- it's one way to become someone who's in control over the fate of others, rather than second class citizen. And it's not like the city elves have less reasons to be wary of mages than the humans do, as well.

As far as the Alienages go, that was the Chantry's way to resolve conflict where the alternative was to just slaughter the species wholesale. I don't recall any particular mention that the Alienage elves resent the Chantry for that, and they tend to be andrastians if i'm not mistaken -- it's the Chantry priest who arranges the weddings in CE origin.

Modifié par tmp7704, 17 juin 2011 - 03:58 .

[TEWR]

Deztyn wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Filament wrote...

Fenris was supposed to be Anders' foil. Merrill wasn't really a big part of the mage-templar conflict.

I guess she can be seen as argument against persecution and/or control of mages by the very fact of being a gigglesquee kind of person that happens to be a mage. I mean, the only way she could possibly get more people on the "awww, let mages do whatever they want" side of the argument is if she was a little pony. Maybe.

She's convinced everyone that making a deal with demons to achieve your goal is a good and noble thing-- I'm not sure even a pony could manage that.

Cute Elves > Ponys

Her persuasive powers are unmatched!



But it's a good thing if you're careful and you play them instead of letting them play you. Hawke can do it with the Hunger Demon in the Deep Roads and Torpor in the Fade. The Warden did it with Sophia Dryden and Kitty.

[DPSSOC]

Filament wrote...

Fenris was supposed to be Anders' foil. Merrill wasn't really a big part of the mage-templar conflict.

Yes but Fenris, for all his mage hating, isn't a Templar.  Merrill may not be a big part of the conflict but she is a mage and designed, almost perfectly I must say, to evoke empathy.  Just like Tali and Liara in ME the devs went to great lengths to make people like Merrill.  It's an associative thing, we empathize and sympathize more with people and groups we know.  If Bioware was trying to encourage any bias it's more likely to be those they have join us.  The only reason I don't think that's the case (I don't think Bioware was trying to push either way) is because of the sheer number and cartoonishness of evil mages we encounter which seems dead set on countering this associative bias.

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
Pretty sure they could have done a dwarf.  Anything really so long as it was cute, young, socially awkward, female, and not human.

Are there elven Templars? Have we ever met a non-human Templar? And I mean a proper one, vows and all, not a runaway unavowed who happens to have the skills like Alistair, or any of the PCs.

No, no we have not.

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
I see no reason at all for anyone other than a human to become a Templar, and it wouldn't behoove the Templars to recruit any elves, because it's the Chantry that made the elves all promise to go to the Alienages and STAY THERE. While some elves may have actually converted, a lot of them are still deeply resentful of the system. And Dwarves have little reason to become Templars, either, with their general agnosticism and profit-loving natures.

You raise fair points but keep in mind the Dwarven Brother we meet in DA:O.  Dwarves do convert to the Andrastian faith and it's possible those who do would seek to become Templars for the same reasons humans would.  Same goes for Elves.  You're probably right that the Chantry wouldn't accept them, but I don't see any reason there wouldn't be a few Elves and Dwarves who want to pledge their sword arm to the Chantry.

Edit: Though Dwarves might not work as Templars because of their immunity to Lyrium.  What good's a Templar if you can't get him hooked on the dust.

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
And Alistair is very awkward and rambly. It's why the fangirls love him so.

Awkward I got, just don't remember much rambling.  Maybe it's because Merrill calls attention to her rambling with lines like, "and I'm rambling now, sorry." and, "not that you're not important enough to have your own stories, I'll just shut up now."

Modifié par DPSSOC, 17 juin 2011 - 04:10 .

[Deztyn]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Her persuasive powers are unmatched!


But it's a good thing if you're careful and you play them instead of letting them play you. Hawke can do it with the Hunger Demon in the Deep Roads and Torpor in the Fade. The Warden did it with Sophia Dryden and Kitty.

Sad.

I see she's got you good.

Modifié par Deztyn, 17 juin 2011 - 04:08 .

[DPSSOC]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Cullen seemed to have trouble talking to the, as he put it, "young ladies" working in the Blooming Rose. I imagine that for the most part he's still awkward, but not this much:

I suppose, though I always saw that as him looking for a polite way to reference them.  Saying, "I spoke to the ****s at the Blooming Rose." would have just been bad manners.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

tmp7704 wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I see no reason at all for anyone other than a human to become a Templar, and it wouldn't behoove the Templars to recruit any elves, because it's the Chantry that made the elves all promise to go to the Alienages and STAY THERE.

A city elf may see becoming a templar a pretty good way to climb the social ladder -- it's one way to become someone who's in control over the fate of others, rather than second class citizen. And it's not like the city elves have less reasons to be wary of mages than the humans do, as well.

As far as the Alienages go, that was the Chantry's way to resolve conflict where the alternative was to just slaughter the species wholesale. I don't recall any particular mention that the Alienage elves resent the Chantry for that, and they tend to be andrastians if i'm not mistaken -- it's the Chantry priest who arranges the weddings in CE origin.

We haven't seen any elven Templars, is the point (as far as I'm aware). Even the Canticle of Shartan has been declared heretical, I don't see the Chantry embracing elves as equals anytime soon. And by the rules of the Chantry, all city elves are to live in alienages. There's no "unless they become Templars" subset of the rule that I've seen or heard talked about.

There were tons of alternatives to the Alienages: make elves all become normal citizens or leave, rather than ghettoizing them. But the Chantry chose to force them to convert, to make them live as less than humans, less than full citizens, forced them to submit.

This quote is from the CIty Elf section on the Dragon Age Wiki article on elves:

Here, we're among family. We look out for each other. Here, we do what we can to remember the old ways. The flat–ears who've gone out there, they're stuck. They'll never be human, and they've gone and thrown away being elven, too. So where does that leave them? Nowhere.

-Sarethia, Alienage Elder