HA! Trick question!DPSSOC wrote...
By your reasoning not only has the Chantry been perfectly justified in their treatment of mages, but the next group that oppresses mages after they get their turn will also be completely justified because their values and beliefs will be drastically different from those held by the current Chantry. Round and round it goes where it stops...
Modifié par General User, 02 mars 2012 - 12:31 .
I don't care where it stops or if it ever stops at all.DPSSOC wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
Oh, I don't know. They follow a different religion and have an entirely different set of cultural and religious values?DPSSOC wrote...
How are the Tevinter Mages different?
No they really don't. Tevinter is an Andrastian nation, they worship the same gods in a slightly different way. They have two distinctions, their interpretation of "magic exists to serve man..." and their attitudes towards slavery. Big differences admittedly but not "an entirely different set of cultural and religious values"Plaintiff wrote...
Not even a little. The mages of Thedas have been brought up under a completely different political and religious system, with completely different cultural and moral values.But fine let's just look at Tevinter before the Chantry where they ruled over pretty much all of Thedas for 1,000 plus years. Does that not count as their turn? Is the fact that all mages were Tevinter mages at the time not matter?
Which has no effect on the fact that the mages already had their crack at tyranny when Tevinter ruled and their values were adopted by the entirety of their empire. Hell the Imperium, at it's height, controlled a much greater area than the Chantry. That was my point, the mages had their turn at being the dicks for the 1,000 plus years before the Chantry even existed. The Chantry, and it's oppression towards mages, is a response to that widespread and universally adopted tyranny. The Imperium was the Chantry before the Chantry existed and it was everywhere. You can`t argue that because the mages of today have different values than Tevinter (and they don`t) that Tevinter's time at bat doesn`t count because at the time they did have the same values.
By your reasoning not only has the Chantry been perfectly justified in their treatment of mages, but the next group that oppresses mages after they get their turn will also be completely justified because their values and beliefs will be drastically different from those held by the current Chantry. Round and round it goes where it stops...
Plaintiff wrote...
But I have never made the assumption that free mages will even want to rule.
Xilizhra wrote...
Actually, that second one isn't that different from Orlais or Antiva either.No they really don't. Tevinter is an Andrastian nation, they worship the same gods in a slightly different way. They have two distinctions, their interpretation of "magic exists to serve man..." and their attitudes towards slavery. Big differences admittedly but not "an entirely different set of cultural and religious values"
Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 02 mars 2012 - 05:11 .
The mages before the Circle weren't free. Not free at all. They were confined to the Chantrys, and not allowed to cast magic at all, par the random cleanning spell and to light the eternal fires within the Chantry. Doesn't sounbd anything like freedom to me.The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
But I have never made the assumption that free mages will even want to rule.
I feel that I should make it known that prior to the Circle's formation and after the downfall of the Imperium, there was a point where mages were free.
Obviously, the Imperium didn't rise again. Nor did society descend into chaos from Abominations when those mages were free.
Yeah! All Chevaliers are bastards!!1 Mainly because they generalize!!Xilizhra wrote...
No, just a bunch of rapist knights, apparently. Regardless of the presence of magic, dicks will be dicks.
EmperorSahlertz wrote...
The mages before the Circle weren't free. Not free at all. They were confined to the Chantrys, and not allowed to cast magic at all, par the random cleanning spell and to light the eternal fires within the Chantry. Doesn't sounbd anything like freedom to me.
Modifié par Wulfram, 02 mars 2012 - 10:35 .
EmperorSahlertz wrote...
The mages before the Circle weren't free. Not free at all. They were confined to the Chantrys, and not allowed to cast magic at all, par the random cleanning spell and to light the eternal fires within the Chantry. Doesn't sounbd anything like freedom to me.The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
But I have never made the assumption that free mages will even want to rule.
I feel that I should make it known that prior to the Circle's formation and after the downfall of the Imperium, there was a point where mages were free.
Obviously, the Imperium didn't rise again. Nor did society descend into chaos from Abominations when those mages were free.
Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 02 mars 2012 - 10:40 .
Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Yes blood magic sacrifice has to be more common. Raping the servants is an individual abuse of power for their own personal gratification.
Blood mages in Tevinter do that too but blood magic also serves a practical function. Magisters need it to get ahead. And considering Tevinter Culture is entirely based on a constant survival of the fittest struggle to climb in the pecking order, I think it happens far often Orleasian Knights raping elves.
It's not as if Chevaliers mainly gain influence in the same way by having sex with elf servants.
Modifié par DKJaigen, 02 mars 2012 - 12:06 .
Fenris regarding magisters: "I have no doubt that some are good and noble men, strong enough to resist temptation."EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Yeah! All Chevaliers are bastards!!1 Mainly because they generalize!!Xilizhra wrote...
No, just a bunch of rapist knights, apparently. Regardless of the presence of magic, dicks will be dicks.
Plaintiff wrote...
But I have never made the assumption that free mages will even want to rule.
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
But I have never made the assumption that free mages will even want to rule.
I feel that I should make it known that prior to the Circle's formation and after the downfall of the Imperium, there was a point where mages were free.
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Obviously, the Imperium didn't rise again. Nor did society descend into chaos from Abominations when those mages were free.
Remember though mages born outside the Imperium would have had to have been self taught, greatly limiting what they're capable of, and it took 300 years for the magisters to regain their power with the advantages of cultural attitudes towards mages, formal training, and powerful relatives; the "free" mages had a shake under 200 years with none of those benefits.
Fast forward and we have mages who are well trained, organized, and have stockpiles of magic items to draw on. So we need more information to decide whether the "free" mages between the Imperium and the Circle didn't try to rule or couldn't, and certainly more information before we start comparing them to the modern mages of today.
Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 02 mars 2012 - 01:52 .
DKJaigen wrote...
Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Yes blood magic sacrifice has to be more common. Raping the servants is an individual abuse of power for their own personal gratification.
Blood mages in Tevinter do that too but blood magic also serves a practical function. Magisters need it to get ahead. And considering Tevinter Culture is entirely based on a constant survival of the fittest struggle to climb in the pecking order, I think it happens far often Orleasian Knights raping elves.
It's not as if Chevaliers mainly gain influence in the same way by having sex with elf servants.
No they gain influence in the game. Where hunderd of people are being killed for the ambitions of the orlesian nobility. Dont insult our intelligence Orion. What Xilizhra said is correct dicks with power will cause a lot of harm and it doesnt matter if they have magic or not.
You need to prove this.DPSSOC wrote...
Everybody wants to rule
dragonflight288 wrote...
I don't want to rule. Politics is a dirty business. I like my privacy and the lack of reporters trying to dig up all the dirt that may or may not have happened in my life.
Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 03 mars 2012 - 01:37 .
And you call yourself a Dwarven Prince?! Hmph! =P
To be serious, I do want to rule. I'd be lying if I said I didn't. I like to think that I'd be a good king if I was living in a monarchical society. And by good, I mean actually good. Not "I'm a good king" and then I turn around and just do horrible things one after the other.
Sure, if I were to rule I may need to stand my ground and I may need to make the unpopular decision. That comes with the territory usually. But I'd try my best to be a good king to my people.
This is speaking from both the mind of Xanthos Aeducan as well as myself.
But, I'm not actually going to try to be a king in the real world unless my gut feeling on the world going straight to hell comes true and we start living in a post-apocalyptic world where chaos runs rampant.
Though now I'm going so far off the rails that I'm underwater. I wonder if I'll see some Big Daddies?
Not lawless. Tevinter magisters do seem to duel each other, but that's far from unique to Tevinter.The game has a labyrinthine series of rules and applies mostly to the nobility. The equivilent in Tevinter is a lawless free for all that is undoubtably far more violent. And as I said, abusing slaves doesn't make Orlesian nobility directly more powerful and more succesful at the Grand Game.
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