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[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
I was talking about babies. How are they gonna know a mage is a baby when every example we have (not every mage but every mage we know who went into the circle Wynne, Anders) is of some 4-5 year old having a magic "accident" and the templars being called. Mages aren't born with a sign on their head that says "ho there! I am a mage!" 

Ignoring their incredible incompetence in DA2, I thought Templars are able to sense magic.

If they were able to do that apostates really wouldn't be able to hide. They can probably weakily sense residue from spells but I doubt they can sense a mage causally walking past them. The Chantry would just post them at every major population center. 

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
It might be pointless, and that's besides the point. Demons don't exactly try to convince their prey with phenomenal reasoning and logic, they appeal to rage, desire and pride. I'd be surprised if demons never managed to exploit that. 

And I'd be even more surprised if Tevinter Magisters were not allowed to have children in the old days. And they did quite well when it came to demons.

 

Which...why hasn't that happened before then? Maybe it happens less then having the children there. *shrugs* It's weird either way. 

I doubt it. They had to cultvate those magical bloodlines somehow. Quite well while screwing everyone else over you mean. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 juin 2011 - 05:51 .

[LobselVith8]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

And who said you were supposed to make an informed decision at the end of DA2?

Considering that Orsino and Meredith are imbeciles, you may have a point.

It ends up being a contest between Meredith, Orsino, Anders and Hawke on who can outdoe the rest in idiocy.

If we want to include the epilogue, I'd nominate Cassandra as well in the contest.

You'd think she'd realize what a lost cause Hawke is. He ends up getting almost everyone around him killed. Hawke is only efficient at killing. Even with the myth that Varric perpetuated, does Cassandra really think Hawke can stop a revolution across the continent?

I don't understand what's going through Cassandra's mind. Hawke is one man who Varric revealed was simply reactive for seven years, failed to protect those close to him, and happened to be efficient at killing. Hawke is a hero among one faction, and a villain to the opposition. Is she expecting Hawke to rally around the templars' cause if he sided with Meredith? What does she expect Hawke to do if he sided with the mages, and is possibly an apostate?

[Ryzaki]

Deztyn wrote...
Boo!

You're no fun KoP.

(Hmmm. . . Do you think they make staves in infant sizes? I think a mini Malcolm's Honor would be quite popular with the baby mages. )

I hope you're happy. 

I know have the image of a baby mage sucking on a certain part of that staff. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

kaiki01 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
I was talking about babies. How are they gonna know a mage is a baby when every example we have (not every mage but every mage we know who went into the circle Wynne, Anders) is of some 4-5 year old having a magic "accident" and the templars being called. Mages aren't born with a sign on their head that says "ho there! I am a mage!" 

Ignoring their incredible incompetence in DA2, I thought Templars are able to sense magic.

That was never a power Templars had. They could track mages if Templars had the mage's phylactery.

Tracking is different than sensing. I think the Templar in Lothering said he could sense magi, but I could be misremembering.

[Deztyn]

Ryzaki wrote...

I hope you're happy.

Iknow have the image of a baby mage sucking on a certain part of that staff.

Success!

Modifié par Deztyn, 16 juin 2011 - 05:52 .

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Tracking is different than sensing. I think the Templar in Lothering said he could sense magi, but I could be misremembering.

 

The Warden was a circle mage. He/she probably had mannerisms that were outside the norm. (Which would explain why he can tel the CM is a mage but says nothing about Morrigan (that I can remember).  

[EmperorSahlertz]

There are child mages within the Circle, or child apprentices anyway. I don't think the children of mages already within the Circle is taken care of within the very same circle they were born though, so you probably only have an age range of around preteens to... old... So no dead babies (yay!)...

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...
If they were able to do that apostates really wouldn't be able to hide. They can probably weakily sense residue from spells but I doubt they can sense a mage causally walking past them. The Chantry would just post them at every major population center.

They do in DA:O, back when they were competent.
And Templars are in every major population center, in Chantries.

Quite well while screwing everyone else over you mean. 

Not really. Thedas now is like a child on the shoulders of a giant. The Tevinter Civilization certainly sounds much more impressive than what we have seen so far (which already bases itself on the legacy of Tevinter).

I doubt an empire was maintained where every non-mage was pissed off. I'd think many were happy with the empire.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 16 juin 2011 - 05:53 .

[LobselVith8]

Deztyn wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Um, they take mages to Circles as children. Of course there was going to be children in there, but the game for some reason never thought it important to make us see inside the gallows.

Boo!

You're no fun KoP.

(Hmmm. . . Do you think they make staves in infant sizes? I think a mini Malcolm's Honor would be quite popular with the baby mages. )

Because of the... naked golden lady? You sure that wouldn't be more popular with the teenagers?

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Tracking is different than sensing. I think the Templar in Lothering said he could sense magi, but I could be misremembering. 

Ser Bryant could tell if The Warden was a mage when discussing what happened at the Circle of Ferelden, and Ser Otto mentions sensing a disturbance in the Alienage.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 16 juin 2011 - 05:55 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Tracking is different than sensing. I think the Templar in Lothering said he could sense magi, but I could be misremembering.

 

The Warden was a circle mage. He/she probably had mannerisms that were outside the norm. (Which would explain why he can tel the CM is a mage but says nothing about Morrigan (that I can remember).  

I doubt that's the case.
Morrigan might have learned how to hide it from Flemeth.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LobselVith8 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Tracking is different than sensing. I think the Templar in Lothering said he could sense magi, but I could be misremembering. 

Ser Otto could tell if The Warden was a mage when discussing what happened at the Circle of Ferelden, and Ser Otto mentions sensing a disturbance in the Alienage.

Exactly, thanks.

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
They do in DA:O, back when they were competent.
And Templars are in every major population center, in Chantries.

The underground mage movement being as strong as it is in that scenario makes...little sense though. And again no one notices Morrigan. They only notice the Warden who would have grown up in the Circle. 

Not really. Thedas now is like a child on the shoulders of a giant. The Tevinter Civilization certainly sounds much more impressive than what we have seen so far (which already bases itself on the legacy of Tevinter).

I doubt an empire was maintained where every non-mage was pissed off. I'd think many were happy with the empire.

 

True. 

I don't know. When you can make someone explode with your mind you kind of don't have to worry about them picking up your weapons and using them against you. Especially not for the few sad sods who try you have an army that can completely neutralize them. 

[TEWR]

I realize this was a few pages back, but I just now got on and figured I'd respond to this.

Ryzaki wrote...

*shrugs*

Keep using your buzz word.

It's not genocide. I don't see it as genocide. It was *one* circle. *One*

And Uganda is just *one* African country. That doesn't mean that what happened there wasn't genocide.


Hitler killed 6 million Jewish people, yet the Jewish people are still around. That was genocide.


The definition of genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.


Mages are an ethnic group. The definition of an ethnic group is as follows:

An ethnic group is a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote..I doubt that's the case. 
Morrigan might have learned how to hide it from Flemeth.

KoP. If they could sense magic. Why would their be a strong mage underground? Why are the mages not sensed when walking past templars? 

It had to be the CM's mannerisms and way of speaking. Why wouldn't that be the case when the CM grew up in the circle and had been their since they were about 6? 

Morrigan mayhave learned sure. Maybe Merrill did too. But you're honestly saying all those apostates (remember theirs mage underground people right next to chantries (Denerim) and right across from the Circle Tower andthese magic sense templars don't notice them? 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
They do in DA:O, back when they were competent.
And Templars are in every major population center, in Chantries.

The underground mage movement being as strong as it is in that scenario makes...little sense though. And again no one notices Morrigan. They only notice the Warden who would have grown up in the Circle.

Because DA2 makes no sense.

Alternatively, the veil was so thin, it makes sensing them harder.
And Morrigan was trained by Flemeth.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 16 juin 2011 - 05:59 .

[kaiki01]

David Gaider wrote...

Did Gaider and the other PTB intend for fans to side with the templars as Hawke in Dragon Age 2?

Those quotes were in response to a poster who was determined to paint the templars as evil oppressors-- when my position has always been there are no easy answers to this particular question. It's very easy for us comfortable western folk to take the attitude that anything which isn't democratic and fair is clearly wrong-- which is a pat answer to a complex problem, especially in a world where the situation is simply not the same as in our own.

You may believe we pushed too hard in the other direction, and that's fair, but if we had intended for there to be one solution there would be no argument about it at all, would there? What you see, after all, is there because we chose for it to be there.

My response is that becuase of cues and themes that DA2 introduced, there seemed to be a self-aware prodding, on BW's part, for players to choose mage. A specific concrete example is during the quest Dissent. Alrik has a genocidal plan called the "Lyrium Solution". That name combined with the genocidal nature of the plan, made me interpret that moment as Bioware sending a signal that the Templars ought be viewed in the same vein as ****s. That they are black hat villains.

So for me, my opinion that DA2 has sets up the players to choose mage over Templar, is not based on their religious or autocratic nature. Instead on what I interpreted as cues, placed by Bioware, to setup Templars as black hat villains.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
[/i]Mages are an ethnic group. The definition of an ethnic group is as follows:

An ethnic group is a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage

 

Huh. I guess that CM in origins who was talking about his elven heritage was doing something wrong eh?

What common heritage do the mages have? I've asked for this and I have yet to get one.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 juin 2011 - 06:00 .

[LobselVith8]

Ryzaki wrote...

Morrigan mayhave learned sure. Maybe Merrill did too. But you're honestly saying all those apostates (remember theirs mage underground people right next to chantries (Denerim) and right across from the Circle Tower andthese magic sense templars don't notice them?  

You underestimate how stupid people in Kirkwall are.

[Ryzaki]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Morrigan mayhave learned sure. Maybe Merrill did too. But you're honestly saying all those apostates (remember theirs mage underground people right next to chantries (Denerim) and right across from the Circle Tower andthese magic sense templars don't notice them?  

You underestimate how stupid people in Kirkwall are.

 

I'm talking about Fereldan not Kirkwall. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...
It had to be the CM's mannerisms and way of speaking. Why wouldn't that be the case when the CM grew up in the circle and had been their since they were about 6?

Then why is Anders not noticeable to them?

Because DA2 makes no sense. Hell, you can even tell them taht he is plotting against the Chantry and they don't give a ****.

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Tracking is different than sensing. I think the Templar in Lothering said he could sense magi, but I could be misremembering. 

Ser Otto could tell if The Warden was a mage when discussing what happened at the Circle of Ferelden, and Ser Otto mentions sensing a disturbance in the Alienage.

Exactly, thanks.

Ser Otto's a bit different though. I think his ability to sense a mage comes from having gone blind (or almost completely blind).


The Templar in Lothering just said "You! There's something.... odd about you" towards Morrigan.


And honestly, I don't think you'd have to be a Templar to see that there was something odd about Morrigan, considering how she dresses.

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote..


Because DA2 makes no sense.

Alternatively, the veil was so thin, it makes sensing them harder.
And Morrigan was trained by Flemeth.

The Undgeround was in origins. 

There's nothing to suggest Templars can sense MAGES they might be able to sense residue from magic spells recently used. But there's nothing to suggest they can sense mages. The Chantry isn't so stupid as to have such an ace and not use it to crush all apostates. 

[kaiki01]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Tracking is different than sensing. I think the Templar in Lothering said he could sense magi, but I could be misremembering. 

Ser Otto could tell if The Warden was a mage when discussing what happened at the Circle of Ferelden, and Ser Otto mentions sensing a disturbance in the Alienage.

Exactly, thanks.

That had less to do with Otto being a templar then with him fitting the blind prophet archtype, who may have lost his eyesight but can see more then others. This is back by all the other encounters mage PCs can have with Templars throughout DA:O and they do not sense the PC is a mage. It is only Otto.

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
It had to be the CM's mannerisms and way of speaking. Why wouldn't that be the case when the CM grew up in the circle and had been their since they were about 6?

Then why is Anders not noticeable to them?

Because DA2 makes no sense. Hell, you can even tell them taht he is plotting against the Chantry and they don't give a ****.

Anders *is* noticed by them! He says it himself! Cullen says it! They don't arrest him because he was a grey warden. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

And later because he was a friend of Hawke. Even when Hawke tells the Templars, that Anders is planning something. DA2 did have some flaws regarding Anders and Templars, that is for sure.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 16 juin 2011 - 06:05 .