39 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

With this post, I'm asking Bioware to not force any more out of character moments on our Shepards when it comes to important story decisions. Two examples:

(1) When I started playing ME2, I played almost the whole game with the attitude: "when I reach the Collector homeworld, I certainly hope to get my hands on some of their technology. It may be useful against the Reapers". Then I reach the Collector base and the game lets my Shepard say "I'll blow this place sky-high!", instead of suggesting to keep it for study as I had anticipated I would be able to for the whole game. I immediately went: "NOOOO. ARE YOU COMPLETELY INSANE?" as the game attempted to destroy one of the main character aspects I had imagined for my Shepard. It was the absolute worst moment in the game for me. I do NOT want such a thing repeated in ME3.

(2) When I heard that Shepard will go back to the Alliance to stand trial, I found it hard to find a rationalization for that but I found one. However, when I heard that the Alliance gets their hands on the SR2, again I was annoyed. My Shepard would not do that, for EDI's sake alone he wouldn't. I do NOT want such a thing to happen again, and Bioware better give an extremely convincing reason why he'd do it!

Now I know that imagination is unlimited and writing resources are limited. So I'll live with out of character moments in the smaller decisions. But in such cases like these, where the alternatives are (a) absolutely obvious, ( character-defining to a large degree and where it's © easy to implement the obvious alternatives without damaging the storyline, I hate it if the games forces actions on my Shepard I feel he'd never do.

Who else has experienced out-of-character moments of Shepard in ME1 or ME2, and doesn't want to see more of them in ME3? I guess the unconvincing way ME2 made you work with Cerberus will come up....which didn't bother me so much but was handled with less than the necessary care.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

A very out of character moment for all of my paragon and "paragade" Shepards was when he was forced to work for Cerberus and then doesn't even admit to Kaidan/Ashley or the Council that Cerberus is evil. Anybody who played ME1 knows that Cerberus is evil. I wanted so badly to agree with Kaidan/Ashley, but the game forced me to say otherwise.

Also, blowing up the Reaper base...  I saw no reason to do that, but I did it anyway, because if you keep it intact, ALL of your party members disagree with your decision afterwards, so I took that as foreshadowing something bad.

Modifié par Neverwinter_Knight77, 15 juin 2011 - 05:39 .

[DocLasty]

"(1) When I started playing ME2, I played almost the whole game with the attitude: "when I reach the Collector homeworld, I certainly hope to get my hands on some of their technology. It may be useful against the Reapers". Then I reach the Collector base and the game lets my Shepard say "I'll blow this place sky-high!", instead of suggesting to keep it for study as I had anticipated I would be able to for the whole game. I immediately went: "NOOOO. ARE YOU COMPLETELY INSANE?" as the game attempted to destroy one of the main character aspects I had imagined for my Shepard. It was the absolute worst moment in the game for me. I do NOT want such a thing repeated in ME3."

The base was filled to the brim with Collectors and Husks - taking the base would have required killing them all, and they didn't have nearly the force to do that by themselves. Shepard didn't even know that the purge option was available until TIM brought it up, so yeah, blowing up the base was the only real option up to that point.

And as for giving up the SR2, he likely didn't have much choice in the matter. He's wanted by the Alliance, and it's not like SR2 is officially his property, anyway.

Modifié par DocLasty, 15 juin 2011 - 05:41 .

[Ahriman]

Ieldra2 wrote...
(1) When I started playing ME2, I played almost the whole game with the attitude: "when I reach the Collector homeworld, I certainly hope to get my hands on some of their technology. It may be useful against the Reapers". Then I reach the Collector base and the game lets my Shepard say "I'll blow this place sky-high!", instead of suggesting to keep it for study as I had anticipated I would be able to for the whole game. I immediately went: "NOOOO. ARE YOU COMPLETELY INSANE?" as the game attempted to destroy one of the main character aspects I had imagined for my Shepard. It was the absolute worst moment in the game for me. I do NOT want such a thing repeated in ME3.

Do you realise that chances of Shepard conquering the Base full of collectors were slim?

Modifié par Wizz, 15 juin 2011 - 06:18 .

[VaticanVice]

Mordin's LM. My Shepard definitely finds the Genophage and his work on it ethically questionable, and doesn't agree with a lot of his attitudes on it, but she would never be as aggressive or harsh about it as the Paragon options made her out to be. She respects Mordin's intelligence too much to snap at him about basic moral issues.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

^ Good one. I forgot about that.

[Ieldra]

Wizz wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
(1) When I started playing ME2, I played almost the whole game with the attitude: "when I reach the Collector homeworld, I certainly hope to get my hands on some of their technology. It may be useful against the Reapers". Then I reach the Collector base and the game lets my Shepard say "I'll blow this place sky-high!", instead of suggesting to keep it for study as I had anticipated I would be able to for the whole game. I immediately went: "NOOOO. ARE YOU COMPLETELY INSANE?" as the game attempted to destroy one of the main character aspects I had imagined for my Shepard. It was the absolute worst moment in the game for me. I do NOT want such a thing repeated in ME3.

Do you realise that chances of Shepard conquering the Base full of collectors were slim?

Do you realize that Shepard's the kind of person who would've known about the EM pulse option without TIM having to tell him?

[Ahriman]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Do you realize that Shepard's the kind of person who would've known about the EM pulse option without TIM having to tell him?

Well, but Shepard definately didn't, because TIM's words were a revelation for Shepard. Perhaps Shepard stupidity is the problem?

[DocLasty]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Wizz wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
(1) When I started playing ME2, I played almost the whole game with the attitude: "when I reach the Collector homeworld, I certainly hope to get my hands on some of their technology. It may be useful against the Reapers". Then I reach the Collector base and the game lets my Shepard say "I'll blow this place sky-high!", instead of suggesting to keep it for study as I had anticipated I would be able to for the whole game. I immediately went: "NOOOO. ARE YOU COMPLETELY INSANE?" as the game attempted to destroy one of the main character aspects I had imagined for my Shepard. It was the absolute worst moment in the game for me. I do NOT want such a thing repeated in ME3.

Do you realise that chances of Shepard conquering the Base full of collectors were slim?

Do you realize that Shepard's the kind of person who would've known about the EM pulse option without TIM having to tell him?

How? It was never mentioned as an option before. It was never part of the plan.

[Sakanade]

Why does everyone go
"My Shepard thinks this"
or "My Shepard thinks that"

Holy **** people, YOU play as shepard, so you might just want to say "I wanted this"
Seriously, out of character or not, this is the way Bioware is taking the story, so that's what happens.

[Ieldra]

Sakanade wrote...
Why does everyone go
"My Shepard thinks this"
or "My Shepard thinks that"

Holy **** people, YOU play as shepard, so you might just want to say "I wanted this"
Seriously, out of character or not, this is the way Bioware is taking the story, so that's what happens.

You don't appear to understand what role-playing means. Of course we want to imprint the in-game Shepards with the personalities we imagine for them, in spite of not actually being Shepard. That's the essence of roleplaying. Complaints about not being able to roleplay the way you want are perfectly valid.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 juin 2011 - 06:37 .

[Massadonious1]

Blowing the base up was always plan A. There was no plan B until TIM suggested it.

[DocLasty]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sakanade wrote...
Why does everyone go
"My Shepard thinks this"
or "My Shepard thinks that"

Holy **** people, YOU play as shepard, so you might just want to say "I wanted this"
Seriously, out of character or not, this is the way Bioware is taking the story, so that's what happens.

You don't appear to understand what role-playing means. Of course we want to imprint the in-game Shepards with the personality we imagine for them, in spite of not actually being Shepard. That's the essence of roleplaying. Complaints about not being able to roleplay the way you want are perfectly valid.

That's not what it means at all. 

Unless Bioware checks with you - and you personally - about every thing they have Shepard do in the game, there's alway going to be a few things that might not mesh with your idea of what Shepard should and shouldn't do in any given situation. You might feel he would do one thing, someone else might feel he would do another thing, but they can only make so many choices available.

Yes, you can imprint your own personality onto Shepard, but you're basically asking that Bioware know exactly what you imagine Shepard to be like and make the game accordingly. Which is silly.

[Ieldra]

Massadonious1 wrote...
Blowing the base up was always plan A. There was no plan B until TIM suggested it.

Exactly that is wrong. Our objective was to stop the Collectors. How, that's a different story. As I said, Shepard's a Spectre with a military background. Of course they would've known about the EM pulse option. "Blow it to hell" as the default option is stereotypical and nonsensical. It's an enemy HQ. You'd want to capture it if at all possible.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 juin 2011 - 06:40 .

[Sakanade]

Ieldra2 wrote...

You don't appear to understand what role-playing means. Of course we want to imprint the in-game Shepards with the personalities we imagine for them, in spite of not actually being Shepard. That's the essence of roleplaying. Complaints about not being able to roleplay the way you want are perfectly valid.

I do understand, and I know that it happens to be ingame, not spouting nonsense on the boards.
When people start "Roleplaying" out of the game, that's where it crosses the line.

I know that with DA2, a lot of people ar concerned about ME3, but it's a different Studio, with different people.
I've seen complaints about just about everything there is, will be or has been in ME3.

[Ieldra]

DocLasty wrote...
Unless Bioware checks with you - and you personally - about every thing they have Shepard do in the game, there's alway going to be a few things that might not mesh with your idea of what Shepard should and shouldn't do in any given situation. You might feel he would do one thing, someone else might feel he would do another thing, but they can only make so many choices available.

Yes, you can imprint your own personality onto Shepard, but you're basically asking that Bioware know exactly what you imagine Shepard to be like and make the game accordingly. Which is silly.

I acknowledged that in my first post. As I said, I only complain because (a) the alternative option is so damned obvious, ( so extremely character-defining, and © would be easy to implement. You won't hear me complaning about "Shepard is OOC in this or that minor conversation"

[DocLasty]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...
Blowing the base up was always plan A. There was no plan B until TIM suggested it.

Exactly that is wrong. Our objective was to stop the Collectors. How, that's a different story. As I said, Shepard's a Spectre with a military background. Of course they would've known about the EM pulse option. "Blow it to hell" as the default option is stereotypical and nonsensical. It's an enemy HQ. You'd want to capture it if at all possible.

Shepard's a soldier, but that doesn't mean he knows everything about everything. I never heard anything about EM pulses being used in the ME universe before, so I got the impression that it was a new thing that Shepard hadn't heard of.

[DocLasty]

Ieldra2 wrote...

DocLasty wrote...
Unless Bioware checks with you - and you personally - about every thing they have Shepard do in the game, there's alway going to be a few things that might not mesh with your idea of what Shepard should and shouldn't do in any given situation. You might feel he would do one thing, someone else might feel he would do another thing, but they can only make so many choices available.

Yes, you can imprint your own personality onto Shepard, but you're basically asking that Bioware know exactly what you imagine Shepard to be like and make the game accordingly. Which is silly.

I acknowledged that in my first post. As I said, I only complain because (a) the alternative option is so damned obvious, ( so extremely character-defining, and © would be easy to implement. You won't hear me complaning about "Shepard is OOC in this or that minor conversation"

Once Shepard's given the option, you can go Renegade with it and preserve the base. So, basically you're complaining that Shepard didn't know about the EM purge, despite the fact that it was never, ever mentioned before TIM brought it up.

[Massadonious1]

BioWare obviously intended for the base to be important in the long run, but what if they gave you the option to check it out beforehand and nothing of importance was there? Not every base has useful intel. So, not only will you end up blowing it up in the long run, you likely alienated or destroyed any other plot devices along the way (if it's a traditional Renegade playthrough) that would of made ME3 winnable.

Not to mention, they likely did it to maximize the impact, probably to get people to change their minds after seeing people being turned into Reaper paste.

[Ieldra]

DocLasty wrote...
Once Shepard's given the option, you can go Renegade with it and preserve the base. So, basically you're complaining that Shepard didn't know about the EM purge, despite the fact that it was never, ever mentioned before TIM brought it up.

No, I complain about Shepard saying "I'll blow this place sky-high" in a way that suggests he never thinks about alternatives, as if blowing it up is the most natural and really the only thinkable action at that time. He's presented as the stereotypical "I blow things up" kind of action hero, with not a great many brain cells to rub together. If there's one thing I don't want my Shepard to be it's that.  

[DocLasty]

Blowing the place sky high was the only alternative.

It's full of Collectors. The only way to secure it would be to kill them all, and that wasn't happening - it was all Shepard's team could do to not get completely overrun by them, much less launch an offensive. Before TIM brought it up, taking the base was NOT an option.

[DocLasty]

And furthermore, the assault on the base was billed as a likely suicide mission from the start. What part of a suicide mission involves capturing a base?

[Someone With Mass]

I don't think the developers can take all eventual choices and/or thought processes there are into account and make it so it fits literally all individual Shepards when it comes to decisions like this.