280 réponses à ce sujet

[eastoreispos]

Stamina combat system is garbage.  Change it. 

DA handles non-casters like this:



Great so you made a
warrior! My what a shiny 2 handed sword you have there, cuz there's a
million of them and practically no other 2 handed weapons except for a
few axes and less hammers (that are worth equipping).

Oh no
you got in combat! Wow those guys look tough, good thing you got all
those nifty skills you leveled up, time to show them who's boss huh?!
Ok ready to fight? Pick 1 skill, go ahead, pick your favorite one! Wow
that's a good one! Now ready? Ok go, use it and make sure it counts.
Cuz you're only using it once this entire fight.



The
stamina system is garbage, you can either A) use your passive abilities
and auto-attack, or use less passive abilities and use 1-2 combat
abilities FOR THE ENTIRE FIGHT, or C) use no passive abilities and spam
chug stamina potions.



Potion spam is the mark of every
poorly designed combat system, fyi, for you open mouth breathers that
defend the stamina system by saying "WELL U CAN DRINK STAM POTIONS
LOL!".

Btw how is it that lyrium is supposed to be rare but u can find lyrium potions literally everywhere but not stam potions? 

Sidenote:  I'm not buying your ****ty dlc in december.  Can't fool me twice in a row. 

[Parhasard]

I've never had this problem.

[El Stormo]

Easy there, OP. I think you'll find that in every RPG, weapon skills have a cooldown period.

[FlintlockJazz]

Wait, there's stamina potion? I thought you could only get it back with rejuve spells, crap no wonder I've been doing not so good in places, cheers gotta find out how to make them now.

[Tmolus]

use a combat ability or two and then turn on the passives..... thats what i do on my chars.

[BlackVader]

Since modal abilites lower your maximum stamina but don't really "cost" any stamina points, the smart thing to do is starting the fight with your active attacks and activate your modal abilities when your stamina runs low.

Example:
At the beginning of a fight, you have 200/200 stamina. You immediately use an attack that costs 50 stamina, dropping you to 150/200. THEN you activate a sustained ability which has an upkeep cost of 50, lowering your maximum stamina to 150, leaving you with 150/150 stamina. Basically, you just used 100 stamina's worth of abilities and lost only 50 stamia. Good deal, don't you think?

Modifié par BlackVader, 20 novembre 2009 - 11:40 .

[surrealitycheck]

Actually, using the combat abilities reduces your dps if you have good gear and a good build. So you wouldn't even want to use them, even if you had the stamina

[El Stormo]

BlackVader, are you sure it works that way? I haven't tried that out yet, but if what you say is true, then that's a bit of a silly oversight from Bioware.

[BlackVader]

El Stormo wrote...

BlackVader, are you sure it works that way? I haven't tried that out yet, but if what you say is true, then that's a bit of a silly oversight from Bioware.

Well, I can't really say I've ever used the abilities this way. Too much hassle for my liking. But as fas as I know, yes, it works just like that.

Ok, I just checked it with my mage. It works a least with spells, so I'm pretty sure it's the same for talents.

Modifié par BlackVader, 20 novembre 2009 - 11:48 .

[El Stormo]

BlackVader wrote...

El Stormo wrote...

BlackVader, are you sure it works that way? I haven't tried that out yet, but if what you say is true, then that's a bit of a silly oversight from Bioware.

Well, I can't really say I've ever used the abilities this way. Too much hassle for my liking. But as fas as I know, yes, it works just like that.

That's strange. Surely that couldn't have been Bioware's intention, that sustained abilities don't cost anything as long as you use your one-shot abilities first...

[FlintlockJazz]

BlackVader wrote...

Since modal abilites lower your maximum stamina but don't really "cost" any stamina points, the smart thing to do is starting the fight with your active attacks and activate your modal abilities when your stamina runs low.

Example:
At the beginning of a fight, you have 200/200 stamina. You immediately use an attack that costs 50 stamina, dropping you to 150/200. THEN you activate a sustained ability which has an upkeep cost of 50, lowering your maximum stamina to 150, leaving you with 150/150 stamina. Basically, you just used 100 stamina's worth of abilities and lost only 50 stamia. Good deal, don't you think?

Yep, that's what I have found out too.  With my champion I'll go in, smack some things with some abilities, and once my stamina gets about half way start activating the sustained abilities like rally  and powerful strikes without it costing me anything and then get to use the rest of the stamina to use the now cooled-down abilities again.

[eastoreispos]

I suspected I would have to spell it out so here it is:



YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE A COMBAT SYSTEM THAT ONLY ALLOWS A CHARACTER TO EXECUTE 1-3 COMBAT MOVES IN THE ENTIRE LENGTH OF A COMBAT ENCOUNTER.



Yes combat abilities should have cooldowns, and they already have built in cooldowns. The stamina system is not a 'cool down' system. The stamina system is the rogue and warrior's mana, and while mage's spells are very powerful and in proportion with how much they can cast per fight, rogues and warrior's abilities are not. Hence the game resorts to your rogue/warrior merely autoattacking for 90% of the fight.

[Baalzie]

Well it doesn't work that way for me, they DO have a cost to start... If I have less than the stated cost atm in my staminapool, they aren't useable...
It's even stated as a "startup cost" go figure...

Stam pots I haven't seen a single one after 3 playthroughs, only saw those in that flashgame they made... Journeys...

What I would rather complain about is Lyrium... Stated everywhere to be Lethal in raw form, ESPECIALLY so for mages, but if You find a Lyrium Vein anywhere, use it and kawhipp full health and mana... Very lethal.... Uhm... Now that makes no sense whatsoever...

And on topic of the OP: I agree that it's a tad silly the way it works atm.... Should have better Stamina regen or change the cost of the skills...

Modifié par Baalzie, 20 novembre 2009 - 11:52 .

[Mnemnosyne]

Yes, it works that way. Sustained abilities only reduce your maximum mana/stamina, they don't cost any actual stamina, so if you've already used enough that the reduced maximum wouldn't lower your current total, then it technically costs nothing but the time to activate.

The disadvantage of doing it this way of course is the time to activate the abilities. Each sustained ability takes about a second to activate, so you're losing attacks and movement in order to activate the abilities in combat instead of going in with them activated. I usually don't bother. Too much of a hassle.

[FlintlockJazz]

El Stormo wrote...

BlackVader wrote...

El Stormo wrote...

BlackVader, are you sure it works that way? I haven't tried that out yet, but if what you say is true, then that's a bit of a silly oversight from Bioware.

Well, I can't really say I've ever used the abilities this way. Too much hassle for my liking. But as fas as I know, yes, it works just like that.

That's strange. Surely that couldn't have been Bioware's intention, that sustained abilities don't cost anything as long as you use your one-shot abilities first...

I find that they are more a case of "I'm out of stamina so I'll resort to these" type abilities.  Due to the long cooldown though turning them off in mid-fight due to my mage casting rejuv for instance is not really a good idea, which means that I can't regen my stamina above the limit which can be prohibitive if I've activated everything that is sustainable.

[Beertastic]

eastoreispos wrote...

I suspected I would have to spell it out so here it is:

YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE A COMBAT SYSTEM THAT ONLY ALLOWS A CHARACTER TO EXECUTE 1-3 COMBAT MOVES IN THE ENTIRE LENGTH OF A COMBAT ENCOUNTER.

Yes combat abilities should have cooldowns, and they already have built in cooldowns. The stamina system is not a 'cool down' system. The stamina system is the rogue and warrior's mana, and while mage's spells are very powerful and in proportion with how much they can cast per fight, rogues and warrior's abilities are not. Hence the game resorts to your rogue/warrior merely autoattacking for 90% of the fight.

I think it's a great system. It promotes tactical thinking and requries you to use a smart balance between Sustainables and Activated abilities (though you can activate most Sustainables AFTER using up your stamina).

[BlackVader]

Well, auto-attack from a warrior or rogue is WAY more effective that auto-attack from a mage. A mage is almost useless without mana, a backstabbing rogue is still devestating even without stamina.

Edit: Typo.

Modifié par BlackVader, 20 novembre 2009 - 11:56 .

[El Stormo]

eastoreispos wrote...

I suspected I would have to spell it out so here it is

No, you don't have to spell it out, we get it.

What I'm saying is, that while indeed, stamina is depleted by using warrior abilities, that stamina is regenerated after every fight, making it effectively one giant cooldown monitor. If you want to gripe, then gripe about mana and health also being restored after battle along with stamina, because that is what makes stamina function just like mana, not the other way 'round.

[surrealitycheck]

Autoattack is optimum if you are using a good build, abilities are secondary.



Abilities don't crit when behind, or carry elemental damage, or benefit properly from attack speed. They have very limited usage.

[Mnemnosyne]

The only place you can find lyrium veins (that I have seen so far) is in the Fade. Things work differently there so presumably it's only Lyrium in the real world that's fatal. Lyrium restores your mana and is the raw essence of magic - since everything in the Fade is will, then Lyrium there is beneficial.

As to the OP's point, I agree. The stamina system seems much too limiting, especially given that it's based off willpower rather than constitution, which makes no sense whatsoever. Basing it off constitution may be enough to make it better. Melee should rarely run into a lack of resources during a fight, but in the game it seems to be the other way around - due to the high availability of lyrium potions, mana is effectively infinite, while stamina can't be recovered effectively.

[Hyunsai]

BlackVader wrote...

Well, auto-attack from a warrior or rogue is WAY more effective that auto-attack from a mage. A mage is almost useless without mana, a backstabbing rogue is still devestating even without stamina.

Edit: Typo.

It would be true if mages, in dragon age, COULD be out of mana.

[El Stormo]

Koyasha wrote...
due to the high availability of lyrium potions, mana is effectively infinite, while stamina can't be recovered effectively.

It seems to me that, like I stated before, the health/mana/stamina regeneration after combat is to blame. What makes more sense to me, personally, is that stamina should regenerate after every fight, while mana has to be refilled with potions. It's the auto-regenerating of mana that makes stamina look feeble by comparison.

[Spaceweed10]

I suppose I can see your point - to a degree.

This game is all about 'choices'.  With limited stamina at the start of a fight, it really makes you think about when and where to use an extremely useful 'Shield Bash' for eg.

Just a thought.

[Nodrak]

Bioware has stated tons of times that Sustained abilities are to be used tactically, not strategically. If you can't understand the difference, go look it up and stop complaining. AFAIK there is no multiple attacks per round type effect in DA like there is in DnD, so using abilities is never a loss unless they specifically say so. Most of the warrior abilities I was using were 'does Normal damage', which appears to be your normal 'auto attack' hit damage (minus things like runes/weaponspells/backstabs).

[surrealitycheck]

Nodrak, that would be true if the sustained abilities weren't most beneficial when mostly all toggled on and autoattack left to run

The melee system is utterly fubar.

so using abilities is never a loss unless they specifically say so.

Actually, it is. Consider the following: I am a warrior with +15 elemental damage on my weapon, haste and bloodthirst up, and about +40 damage from other elemental weapon buffs. I hit for about 100 noncrit, not factoring in the elemental damage.

I use critical strike, a slower attack than an autoattack, and I crit for 150.

OR

I use an autoattack, which has a 25% chance of critting for that much base damage, and I get guaranteed 55 extra elemental damage, faster. The only reason to use those abilties is possibly for shatter combos.

Modifié par surrealitycheck, 20 novembre 2009 - 12:07 .