280 réponses à ce sujet

[nicodeemus327]

You have four group members to micro manage. I glad they don't force us to micro a bunch of abilities for melee. I personally like it. I auto attack most of the time. When I need burst I have that option. When I need some CC I have that option as well. Then I switch between sustained abilities depending on the situation.

[TileToad]

Torias wrote...

I'd suggest raising your will power, equipping gear that gives bonuses to stamina and stamina regeneration.

By level 18, my two handed weapon warrior had a huge amount of stamina, and could blow off a sequence of:
Perfect Striking
(Activate Precise Strike Mode)
Sunder Arms
Weapon Sweep (name? the sweep AOE attack that knocks everyone down)
Sunder Armor
Mighty Blow
Critical Strike
Sunder Arms (the 10 second cooldown time has reset by this point)
(activate 3 more modes)

that's enough to make a huge dent in particular enemy forces and very quickly shift the balance of forces in the battle...

But, by the time you've reached lvl18, won't the fights also be longer and tougher?
Doesn't that cancel out the apparent benefit?

[Nodrak]

Longest fights I recall were mid-game. Late game fights involve way too much raw power and usually end quickly, either either for you or for them >.<

Also don't try to dps in a full set of massive armor with like 30%+ fatigue.

Modifié par Nodrak, 20 novembre 2009 - 02:41 .

[Erium]

I dunno. The stamina regen from killing blows with my rogue's backstabs coupled with his willpower seems to suffice enough. For the most part, I use abilities when I want. With my momentum up while performing backstabs, I steal most of the killing blows and refill my stamina bar numerous times throughout a fight.



My warrior characters have a similar ability. Death Blow I believe.

[Jarchoo]

It's sooooo cuuuuuute!! It's like a thread on the WoW forums!



That brings back memories.



And I think stamina is just fine or maybe they should change it to RAGE so that you can use all the abilities all the time and totally wtfbbqpwn some noobies.

[Freezingfire]

They could just scrap the whole stamina system for activated abilities. I mean, they already have cd's do they not(to do the same as stamina, which is limit them). If they still think it doesn't work then, you could just increase the cd's.

[Saphyro]

Love the stamina system. Makes you think and plan, especially on Hard [and above] difficulties.

High stamina [through good and reasonable build], good management, few pots for critcal moments [and some spells] and you're ready to go. Auto-attack with max 2-3 special hits is honestly an outcome of some really bad character management/development.

[surrealitycheck]

Auto-attack with max 2-3 special hits is honestly an outcome of some really bad character management/development.

Actually, it's a sign of optimal character development

If you wish to do maximum dps you will be running a crapload of passives and never using your abilities, apart from the occasional aoe.

[immortallogic]

man this is what happens when you market a game to people outside of its original fan base you get jokers who dont understand this is a tactics game, this isnt brawl brothers, or streets of rage you actually have to think, try switching charcters and setting up combos, try not min maxing and actually dumping a few points into willpower....you cant serioulsy expect to have 11 willpower then come complain on the boards then proclaim you wont buy dlc just stop playing this like an mmo and youll be fine guy

[immortallogic]

lol @ maxium dps I can tell these fools havent played nm

[F-C]

the way i see it they sort of borrowed the melee combat system from other games where auto attack is supposed to be your primary source of damage while the abilities are for tactical use.

this is not the first game to do this by any means, and considering you have multiple group members to control if you had to use abilities constantly it would just create excessive amounts of micro-management.

as far as the arguement about mages mana, when they go out of mana they are utterly useless, while a melee is still providing near full dps even at 0 stamina. you cant just directly compare mana to stamina as they are not using the same combat system.

Modifié par F-C, 20 novembre 2009 - 03:04 .

[mastahYee]

There are two very different player expectations here:

Fans of MMOs and ActionRPGs are used to firing off abilities like a machine gun.  Their strategies revolve around their attack combinations (stun locks, etc...).  Player satisfaction comes from annihilating their opponents as quickly as possible.  Successful player builds revolve around fullfilling minimum requirements to get key abilities, maximizing anything that causes damage and low cooldowns (aka min/max).

Fans of Dungeons & Dragons games are used to planning a party-wide strategy for locking down an encounter (not much different than being an MMO raid leader).  Player satisfaction comes from coordinating the skills of a group to overcome an encounter.  Successful player builds revolve around synergy between the characters that make up the party.

As you can see, these are two different approaches (micro vs macro).  While someone has already solo'd DA:O on Nightmare Difficulty, this game was designed by a company known for the latter category (fans of D&D).

Fans of Hero-based RTS games should also feel at home here.  Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War II (squad-based, limited specials) has a lot in common with DA:O.

What Bioware has done with character building as a whole is try to encourage builds that take into account more than 2 attributes.  The beauty of the system is that you can create your ARPG machine-gun special if you tailor your stats and gear for that role (practical theorycrafting aside).

Just be aware, that Bioware's previous D&D-related games were centered around party synergy, not solo ability.

[Elanareon]

People just don't know how to use stamina. And usually people only put points in STR/DEX to "min/max" damage. I know i don't and i don't have problems with stamina.

[JHorwath]

I have no problems with the stamina. Between the spells that rejuvenate stamina to the bard songs that do the same, I don't have any issues.

*If your not happy with your stamina limits put more points into willpower. 

Modifié par JHorwath, 20 novembre 2009 - 04:29 .

[Osprey39]

El Stormo wrote...

BlackVader wrote...

El Stormo wrote...

BlackVader, are you sure it works that way? I haven't tried that out yet, but if what you say is true, then that's a bit of a silly oversight from Bioware.

Well, I can't really say I've ever used the abilities this way. Too much hassle for my liking. But as fas as I know, yes, it works just like that.

That's strange. Surely that couldn't have been Bioware's intention, that sustained abilities don't cost anything as long as you use your one-shot abilities first...

How do you figure they don't cost anything.  They lower your maximum mana pool and they take time to cast.  The time is not irrelevant.  I cast Stone Armor on my mage before combat starts because if I wait until I'm about to be hit, it's too late.

edit:  I wanted to add that as a mage, I spend a large portion of longer fights standing around with a sliver of mana auto-attacking with my staff so to claim this is something only melees deal with is silly.  My mage finished the game with like 41 willpower (that's like 385 mana with 2 of my buffs running) and I still couldn't just sit there spamming spells willy nilly unless I wanted to chug potions like there's no tomorrow. 

Modifié par Osprey39, 20 novembre 2009 - 05:04 .

[0mar]

El Stormo wrote...

eastoreispos wrote...

I suspected I would have to spell it out so here it is

No, you don't have to spell it out, we get it.

What I'm saying is, that while indeed, stamina is depleted by using warrior abilities, that stamina is regenerated after every fight, making it effectively one giant cooldown monitor. If you want to gripe, then gripe about mana and health also being restored after battle along with stamina, because that is what makes stamina function just like mana, not the other way 'round.

Mages never run out of mana.  It's so easy to craft 99 lyrium potions, it's almost cheating.  I've never had a single mana problem with my mages.  I can fire off 3 spells before my melee characters even get into range, pause, drink a pot, and fire off 2 more spells.  The battle is already decided by then and my melee characters only contributed maybe 15% of the damage.  And they are drained of stamina.

The stamina system is garbage.  You run out so quickly and there's no way to regen it without chewing 10 deep mushrooms to gain enough stamina for a couple more skills.  I learned this the hard way during the undead horde battle at Redcliffe.  My mages could continually down pots to stay 100% effective during the entire battle while my warriors were autoattacking after the second wave.

[Skellimancer]

Lots of mage player in here.



Stamina is broken.



It won't be fixed (devs are pro mage only) unless someone makes a mod.



I believe there is a stamina potion mod available.

[Saphyro]

surrealitycheck wrote...

Auto-attack with max 2-3 special hits is honestly an outcome of some really bad character management/development.

Actually, it's a sign of optimal character development

If you wish to do maximum dps you will be running a crapload of passives and never using your abilities, apart from the occasional aoe.

What I was trying to say [and did it poorly it seems] is that good character management/reasonable development = passive abilities running + crapload of stamina for additional special attacks. [willpower, spells, pots etc]. This means I can only be amazed at people who put every single point in STR and then scream that 3 passives and 1 special shot is the best they can do. At the end, saying the "stamina system" sux. I miss Fallout's S.P.E.C.I.A.L, where leaving INT at 6 or 7 [and lower, can't remember] ment you're playing an idiot [which was quite easy to spot during random dialogues].

Modifié par Saphyro, 20 novembre 2009 - 05:12 .

[JHorwath]

0mar wrote...

El Stormo wrote...

eastoreispos wrote...

I suspected I would have to spell it out so here it is

No, you don't have to spell it out, we get it.

What I'm saying is, that while indeed, stamina is depleted by using warrior abilities, that stamina is regenerated after every fight, making it effectively one giant cooldown monitor. If you want to gripe, then gripe about mana and health also being restored after battle along with stamina, because that is what makes stamina function just like mana, not the other way 'round.

   You run out so quickly and there's no way to regen it without chewing 10 deep mushrooms to gain enough stamina for a couple more skills. 

That's just not true.

[Georg Zoeller]

Willpower is great.

[surrealitycheck]

Well if they are complaining that they can't do extra abilities, then that is one thing.



The point I am trying to make is that it is to their benefit that they can't, as it would actively harm them!



That is the slightly ridiculous element of the whole system - that the skills themselves, due to scaling factors, render themselves useless if you have good gear and buffs.

[Skellimancer]

Georg Zoeller wrote...

Willpower is great.

Doesn't help stamina regen though. stick 20 points into Willpower for an extra 2 attacks? then what? oh yes no stamina.

I love people like you, always looking at things from one direction.

[surrealitycheck]

Georg Zoeller wrote...

Willpower is great.

Georg, why do special attacks not get elemental damage benefits from runes and weapon buffs?

I kind of explored why I disagree with this here - http://social.biowar.../9/index/252162 - but now I know you're watching...

Also, while willpower may be ok, it is surely better to use the +stamina items!

EDIT: EG warden commanders boots, which give you +50 stamina - 10 willpower's worth - or the maul which gives you seventy-five AND some stamina regen!

Modifié par surrealitycheck, 20 novembre 2009 - 05:15 .

[hireuin]

i'm a dual wield warrior on HARDCORE difficulty, when i use momentum - i run out of stamina. when i don't use momentum i can spam the 2-3 MAIN dps moves constantly (dual swipe, flurry, riposte)...



i've put 0 points in stamina.



my guess is that the OP is trying to run with about 6 maintained buffs with no willpower investment.

[Saphyro]

That is the slightly ridiculous element of the whole system - that the skills themselves, due to scaling factors, render themselves useless if you have good gear and buffs.

True. Despite the fact of having proper amount of stamina left for additional specials, I too found out that proper passives and buffs + gear = let go of the space bar and watch the massacre. Still, one simply can't go OOS unless shaping a one-stat char and choosing party members' skills poorly.