280 réponses à ce sujet

[TileToad]

mastorofpuppetz wrote...

It's neither, its fine the way it is. Learn to play within the structure, devs cannot change the game on every gamers whim, or games would be a disaster.

I undestand that but it isn't just my whim. There's lots of gamers that don't like the lack of stamina. Moreso since Lyrium is so abundant. Why do mages get potions to replenish their "stamina" and warriors don't? Personally I think warriors need it more than mages as their effectiveness in battles is moderate at best.

[clan4mack]

I kind've see what the point of this post is .. but surely, isn't the answer just to increase the stamina regen a tiny bit rather than look at the abilities (sustained or activated)? Imo to get the most out of the classes you have to think about the top-end stats - like strength for warriors for example - and although willpower is nice for a bigger pool it really doesn't matter once you get further into the game because the armour you need eats away at it. Surely a slightly faster in combat reggen approach would bridge the gap.

[clan4mack]

I kind've see what the point of this post is .. but surely, isn't the answer just to increase the stamina regen a tiny bit rather than look at the abilities (sustained or activated)? Imo to get the most out of the classes you have to think about the top-end stats - like strength for warriors for example - and although willpower is nice for a bigger pool it really doesn't matter once you get further into the game because the armour you need eats away at it. Surely a slightly faster in combat reggen approach would bridge the gap.

[Pocketgb]

In general melee classes are just not terribly fun to play. A huge majority of the time it's going to be right click > kill enemy > repeat. Sure there's the occasional skil usagel here are there but overall you're going to be just hitting things, a huge majority of the time. Even moreso with 2h, who has a whole slew of useless abilities that hinder their overall DPS.

It's going to be really difficult to balance stamina vs.mana when lyrium potions are on the table, either way. Melee dps can be pretty nifty and viable, but largely through simply attacking - and that's pretty droll.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 20 novembre 2009 - 05:43 .

[daem3an]

I'm afraid I just don't get what the problem is, but I could say that about a good many threads. I'm playing a 2-rogue/mage/S&Bwarrior on hard and have little trouble managing my stamina/mana/health with pretty conservative use of potions. Unless people are just expecting this to be a different type of game...

[hireuin]

Skellimancer wrote...

F-C wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

mastorofpuppetz wrote...

TileToad wrote...

Georg Zoeller wrote...

Willpower is great.

Indeed.
I shall not quit nagging the devs untill I get my stamina fix.

Cannot expect to be able to spam abilities wihtout penalty

Like mages?

when my mage can auto attack and still provide full dps then you will have a point.

since he cant, you dont, at all.


melee can use up their stamina, turn on persistents, and still be at full dps.

a mage runs out of mana he is useless.


different combat systems, different mechanics.

wake up and smell the coffee.

Willpower is great.

(Fun isn't it?)

please tell me you're not both complaining about the difficulty AND using dragon armor.  dragon armor = iddqd godmode.

bottom line is that mages do more damage because they have more AOE.  if a mage can maintain a dps similar to your melee on single targets then you're doing something wrong.  with dual swing my *hardcore* warrior does about 100 damage per second with a pair of steel swords...  then with sweep and whirlwind i don't even need to manually control morrigan for AOE help on most groups.

[hireuin]

Pocketgb wrote...

In general melee classes are just not terribly fun to play. A huge majority of the team it's going to be right click > kill enemy > repeat. Sure there's the occasional skill here are there but overall you're going to be just hitting things. Even moreso with 2h, who has a whole slew of useless abilities that hinder their overall DPS.

It's going to be really difficult to balance stamina vs.mana when lyrium potions are on the table, either way. Melee dps can be pretty nifty and viable, but largely through simply attacking - and that's pretty droll.

i disagree.

my first playthrough was with a mage, standing at the back using aoe nukes is almost as boring as world of warcraft.

melee in-your-face is unbeatable.

[Pocketgb]

Yeah melee dps is great - when it's duel-wield.



Skelli's talking from the perspective of a 2h'er, in which case she'd be right: they don't do much damage as is, and using their abilities is rarely worth it.

[F-C]

Pocketgb wrote...

In general melee classes are just not terribly fun to play. A huge majority of the team it's going to be right click > kill enemy > repeat. Sure there's the occasional skill here are there but overall you're going to be just hitting things. Even moreso with 2h, who has a whole slew of useless abilities that hinder their overall DPS.

It's going to be really difficult to balance stamina vs.mana when lyrium potions are on the table, either way. Melee dps can be pretty nifty and viable, but largely through simply attacking - and that's pretty droll.

while auto attack may not be the most interactive thing to do in a game, you have to remember this game is balanced around tactical group combat. it isnt meant you for you to sit there and spam attacks on one character endlessly.

if you could the amount of micro-management needed would get to ridiculous levels.
pause - set attacks - 2 seconds later - pause set attacks - 2 seconds later - pause set attacks

most tactical group combat games like this tend not to have the most interactive melee classes in the game because they are easiest to simplify, while doing it to a mage basically turns him into an archer with a wand.

[Skellimancer]

hireuin wrote...


please tell me you're not both complaining about the difficulty AND using dragon armor.  dragon armor = iddqd godmode.

bottom line is that mages do more damage because they have more AOE.  if a mage can maintain a dps similar to your melee on single targets then you're doing something wrong.  with dual swing my *hardcore* warrior does about 100 damage per second with a pair of steel swords...  then with sweep and whirlwind i don't even need to manually control morrigan for AOE help on most groups.

Difficulty? who mentioned that?

i want to have FUN controlling this auto attacking borefest of a class.

if your mage is being outdamaged by your warrior then maybe YOU are doing something very wrong.

[F-C]

Skellimancer wrote...

i want to have FUN controlling this auto attacking borefest of a class.

you are intended to control a group, not a single character.

tactical group combat.

[surrealitycheck]

F-C, the tactics system and the nature of console gameplay would say that while what you said may be true up to a point, the game was certainly designed around some players just controlling their main characters while automation takes care of the other stuff.

[TileToad]

jerms510 wrote...
in short, L2P.

Don't worry I can play.
But just like racing the grandprix in an old Vauxhall it's not as much fun as say with a Formula 1.

[WickedAwesome]

LEARN2WILLPOWER

[Pocketgb]

F-C wrote...

while auto attack may not be the most interactive thing to do in a game, you have to remember this game is balanced around tactical group combat. it isnt meant you for you to sit there and spam attacks on one character endlessly.

if you could the amount of micro-management needed would get to ridiculous levels.
pause - set attacks - 2 seconds later - pause set attacks - 2 seconds later - pause set attacks

How is that a bad thing? I love micro, and I don't see anything wrong with making more classes fun to play. If a certain player doesn't like micro then they can either live with tactics or live acknowledge that they're not using the character to the best of it's abilities. It's a single-player game so no harm's done, right?

[hireuin]

Pocketgb wrote...

Yeah melee dps is great - when it's duel-wield.

Skelli's talking from the perspective of a 2h'er, in which case she'd be right: they don't do much damage as is, and using their abilities is rarely worth it.

use powerful swings and SPAM mighty blow + sweep + sunder arms... i had sten using this on my first play-through - not using the other crap moves - he was doing as much damage as alistair and leliana combined.  with a tier6 2h sword he was hitting for over 100.

[WillieStyle]

hireuin wrote...

Pocketgb wrote...

Yeah melee dps is great - when it's duel-wield.

Skelli's talking from the perspective of a 2h'er, in which case she'd be right: they don't do much damage as is, and using their abilities is rarely worth it.

use powerful swings and SPAM mighty blow + sweep + sunder arms... i had sten using this on my first play-through - not using the other crap moves - he was doing as much damage as alistair and leliana combined.  with a tier6 2h sword he was hitting for over 100.

I realize that math is hard, (hence my sig) but would it hurt to do some arithmetic before making posts like this.   A dual-wield warrior hits for abou the same, only she does it much more often.
A mage hits for the same with storm of the century against an entire screen full of enemies.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 20 novembre 2009 - 05:57 .

[Pocketgb]

2h does shine endgame indeed (but my results have been a bit different: just stacking sustains provided nasty numbers in itself, only used the aoe knockdown and pommel on occassion), which leaves the player up to a difficult decision. I think things could be helped out a lot if they balance runes, however, because my results with DW are still much nastier and consistent. Hard to beat momentum, wish I could just use it with having to duel-wield anything.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 20 novembre 2009 - 05:58 .

[F-C]

Pocketgb wrote...

F-C wrote...

while auto attack may not be the most interactive thing to do in a game, you have to remember this game is balanced around tactical group combat. it isnt meant you for you to sit there and spam attacks on one character endlessly.

if you could the amount of micro-management needed would get to ridiculous levels.
pause - set attacks - 2 seconds later - pause set attacks - 2 seconds later - pause set attacks

How is that a bad thing? I love micro, and I don't see anything wrong with making more classes fun to play. If a certain player doesn't like micro then they can either live with tactics or live acknowledge that they're not using the character to the best of it's abilities. It's a single-player game so no harm's done, right?

a certain level of micro management is fun and acceptable, and a certain level is overboard.

if they were to make it so melee could endlessly spam their attacks and never run out of stamina then i would assume they would need to rebalance auto attack damage and things to compensate for it.

considering they have spent 9 months on balance before release, and have stated they arnt going to do any major class rebalancing, i just dont see it as a possibility.

weather i see it as good or bad is really irrelevent.

you really only have the option of actually using the toolkit and changing the game to suit your personal needs, which people have been telling you to do for over a week now.

if all this time you had spent on the forums complaining endlessly about various issues had been spent on the toolkit instead you would already be playing the game in your perfect personal vision. i know you have personally spent well over 40 hours in the last week alone just on the forums complaining. im sure if that amount of time was used on the toolkit instead you would have reached perfection by now.

i guess complaining is just easier though.

[Bane]

Everything is already in place for stamina potions. Replace lyrium dust/elfroot with deep mushrooms in the various recipes and viola, stamina potions. I guess I'm more interested in what the reasoning is behind not having them in the game more than the fact they aren't.

I enjoy having to pick and choose which abilities to use and when. It's about the only tactical decision warriors have to make aside from "CHAAAARRRRGGEE!!!". If I could fire off any of my talents whenever I wanted would it still be as fun? I don't know, it's hard to say.

Modifié par Bane_v2, 20 novembre 2009 - 06:00 .

[Loc'n'lol]

eastoreispos wrote...

I quickly realized that there was no point in creating a warrior or rogue, because the only fun is when you're controlling the mage.

While this is certainly an exageration, I think it addresses very well the question of why some us wish for some re-balancing of the classes, despite this being a single player-game.

It's not about being 'stronger', it's about having as much fun with a radically different party setup.

[WickedAwesome]

WillieStyle wrote...
I realize that math is hard, (hence my sig) but would it hurt to do some arithmetic before making posts like this.   A dual-wield warrior hits for abou the same, only she does it much more often.
A mage hits for the same with storm of the century against an entire screen full of enemies.

Haha oh wow.
Friendly fire

[Skellimancer]

WickedAwesome wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...
I realize that math is hard, (hence my sig) but would it hurt to do some arithmetic before making posts like this.   A dual-wield warrior hits for abou the same, only she does it much more often.
A mage hits for the same with storm of the century against an entire screen full of enemies.

Haha oh wow.
Friendly fire

Don't walk in it?

What happened to "use tactics"?

[F-C]

Bane_v2 wrote...

Everything is already in place for stamina potions. Replace lyrium dust/elfroot with deep mushrooms in the various recipes and viola, stamina potions. I guess I'm more interested in what the reasoning is behind not having them in the game more than the fact they aren't.

I enjoy having to pick and choose which abilities to use and when. It's about the only tactical decision warriors have to make aside from "CHAAAARRRRGGEE!!!". If I could fire off any of my talents whenever I wanted would it still be as fun? I don't know, it's hard to say.

i would assume the reason for not having much in the way of stamina potion items is because of tactical group combat, once again. you can have your healer mage using rejuvinate and mass rejuvinate as well as a bard doing the stamina return song and as other posters have stated besides me you have very little stamina problems. while on the flipside rogues and warriors cant really do the same thing for mages.

then you have the issue of mages being useless without mana, while melee/archers are still at full dps even completly out of stamina. they can use their stamina, then turn on persistents, and still be doing great dps. a mage out of mana cannot say the same.

i would guess its because the game is designed around tactical group combat.

Modifié par F-C, 20 novembre 2009 - 06:08 .

[TileToad]

Bane_v2 wrote...

Everything is already in place for stamina potions. Replace lyrium dust/elfroot with deep mushrooms in the various recipes and viola, stamina potions. I guess I'm more interested in what the reasoning is behind not having them in the game more than the fact they aren't.

I enjoy having to pick and choose which abilities to use and when. It's about the only tactical decision warriors have to make aside from "CHAAAARRRRGGEE!!!". If I could fire off any of my talents whenever I wanted would it still be as fun? I don't know, it's hard to say.

You do have a point there. Perhaps it would suffice to have the talents cost a bit less stamina.