280 réponses à ce sujet

[surrealitycheck]

The question of whether or not special attacks are doing as much damage as they should be is inherently linked to what effects they do or don't benefit from.

Read the second paragraph.

Modifié par surrealitycheck, 20 novembre 2009 - 10:00 .

[F-C]

yes but thats still an issue with the elemental benefits, not the special attacks themselves.



let me think of another way to put this.



the special attacks without elemental benefits concerned are working correctly.

when elemental benefits are added to the equation is when the problem crops up.



therefore the issue is with the elemental benefits being applied to the special attacks, not the special attacks themselves.

[surrealitycheck]

If I say "special attacks are useless because they lower your dps due to not being affected by x", you say "that's because they're not designed to add dps", and I say "this design consideration is specifically mentioned as something they are looking at, and given their changing damage they almost certainly are designed to add dps" then what you have just said isn't relevant.

The special attacks aren't doing the damage they should be doing, as a post hoc matter of fact. THAT IS MY CONTENTION.

The problem with your logic is

"the special attacks without elemental benefits concerned are working correctly."

Why do you believe that, when their use so dramatically changes during the game AND a developer has said they are going to have a look at it?

EDIT: Unless you mean correctly not in the sense of "working as intended" but "not causing game errors", which I guess is true?

Modifié par surrealitycheck, 20 novembre 2009 - 10:09 .

[F-C]

more of i mean they are working as intended minus the elemental benefits.

which you seem to be taking as they are entirely broken, but i do not, so we have our wires crossed.


i guess i could use an example, say you have a lawnmower and its missing the blade.

you are saying "this lawnmower is broken because its missing the blade"
and im saying "no its not broken, it just needs a blade attached to it"

Modifié par F-C, 20 novembre 2009 - 10:17 .

[Osprey39]

Dvergar wrote...

I have a level 22 dwarf hard mode, never had any problems with using too much stamina or with stamina regen.  By the time my skills CD is overwith I have the stamina required to use them again.
Mind you I am a SS tank, 25 points in Willpower... maybe two handed talents just cost more?

It's probably a combination of that and that people put their fighters in the heaviest possible armor (even though they aren't the tank) and totally ignore the effects of fatigue. 

As for myself, even though I played a mage, I didn't have too much trouble with the stamina usage on my warriors towards the end.  Once I got some stam regen stuff on Alistair, even he was able to keep 2-3 sustained buffs up and still keep his stam up.  That includes liberal usage of Holy Smite and that ability uses a ton of stamina. 

[surrealitycheck]

If you use a functional definition of activity, that lawnmower is indeed broken

[F-C]

actually now that i think about it, a better example would be a lawnmower with a dull blade.



you say its broken because it should cut grass better than it does.

i say its not broken, it just needs to be sharpened.



i guess its the same thing really, but its more fitting.

[surrealitycheck]

I SHALL FIGHT YOU

[WillieStyle]

The problem with active abilities goes beyond elemental runes and enchants.

Special attacks replace auto-attacks when used. However, the attack rate is set by their animation speed not the current attack speed of the character. The most effective way to increase a melee character's damage is via attack speed increases like momentum or haste. However, activated attacks like punisher attack at the same speed no matter what the character's current attack speed is. So when hasted, it's a dps loss to use special attacks. I doubt that was the intention of the developers.

[surrealitycheck]

Willie, while I believe that is partially correct I believe (although this could be confirmation bias) that special attacks are partially, albeit not fully hasted.



I could be totally wrong on this and should probably double check. I did consider this but I seem to have not come to a good conclusion

[Nooneyouknow13]

The only issue I have with 2 Handed Weapons is Pommel Strike deals no damage at all, when otherwise it's nearly identical to Shield Bash, and Mighty blow being considerably better than Critical Strike. That said, all of the damaging specials add dps, especially when chained, because everyone of them other than Mighty blow is significantly faster than an auto swing. they also don't seem to have any effect on the swing timer at all, unless you interrupt an auto swing mid swing.



My stamina issues come entirely from using Final Blow to instant kill the highest con enemy.

[Vardlure]

One thing that's messed up with rogues is that it really seems like special moves actually lower your damage. If I'm standing behind a baddie stabbing away lining up the crits and then use flurry.... first of all there seems to be a pause, then my little guy does the 3 attacks, none of which crit, during which time it seems my auto attack is turned off and besides which the attacks seem to come no faster than my normal attacks would with momentum on.



Ability should read:



"The character yawns out with three blows, dealing less than normal combat damage with each hit."

[Jayce]

Eh, lots of carousel arguments going on here.

Warriors use Strength, Dexterity and Willpower as their main stats with Magic and Constitution being secondary.

Mages use Magic, Willpower and Cunning as their main stats with Constitution and Dexterity as secondary.

Rogues use Dexterity, Cunning and Willpower as their main stats with Magic and Strength as secondary.

They're all adequately balanced, including Stamina. It's just that some of the special abilities for certain builds need tweaking.

Modifié par Jayce F, 20 novembre 2009 - 11:52 .

[TheRealIncarnal]

Meh, I've beaten the game with no problems with the Stamina system. You just need to manage it, sort of like Mana.

[cpz01]

a lot of people tend to think that willpower is only for mages but if you read the description it explains that willpower it increases stamina. so if you like using all your special spells then throw some points in their

[WillieStyle]

TheRealIncarnal wrote...

Meh, I've beaten the game with no problems with the Stamina system. You just need to manage it, sort of like Mana.

You don't need to manage mana.

[andysdead]

my rogue never runs out of stamina. he can go alllll niiiiight. :-)

[Loc'n'lol]

Jayce F wrote...

Mages use Magic, Willpower and Cunning as their main stats with Constitution and Dexterity as secondary.

Wat ?

[0mar]

Mages need magic, that's it. Anyone putting points elsewhere is gimping their character. Willpower is not needed because you can craft infinite lyrium potions for a nominal cost. Dex/Con aren't needed because mages either end the battle before it begins or simply stun/freeze their way out of dangerous situations.

[Jayce]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

Mages use Magic, Willpower and Cunning as their main stats with Constitution and Dexterity as secondary.

Wat ?

Yep. Cunning isn't very important to mages but it's more important than the other three. You need it for Herbalism even though the tool tips say character level. Dex is handy for avoiding spell interruptions and staying on you feet. Con ups HPs.

But yeah, Magic and Willpower are waaaay more important. 

[Tyrax Lightning]

I've heard unconfirmed intel that Death Blow is bugged & failing to give the stamina regen upon enemy kill. Can anyone confirm?



If Death Blow is bugged, then other warrior related stuff could be too.



@Jayce F: Dex is not primary for a warrior unless it's goin Dual Wield. It's lookin to me like non-DW warriors have no viable use for more than 18 Dex for that stupid 'lower aggro' ability I don't even care about the name of. That ability is only worth grabbing to get to the 4th tier ability behind it. Even DW wants good Con unless they want every warrior in the land laughing at them.

[Roxlimn]

OP's issue is that there isn't enough Stamina to go around.



Not true. Warriors don't suffer as much fatigue as Mages do, and their normal attacks are actually quite potent, unlike Mages. So where a Mage is more or less forced to do Lightning or Flame Blast to contribute damage, all a Warrior has to do is attack.



Boring? Eh. It's a wash, IMO. Warrior AoEs are potent enough. War Cry with Superiority not only knocks back a whole bunch of guys at close range, it also imposes attack penalties. With a high enough Defense rating, you won't even need your Mage to use Force Field - it's like you're a living Force Field. It's simple stat management + strategy + tactics, and it wins convincingly.



In that way, it's the Warrior version of Tempest + Blizzard, only you can do it even when everyone erupts at close range.



More to the point, there are enough +stamina effects and equipment in the game that you rarely ever run out of stamina unless you never use normal attacks, which isn't advisable, since a Warrior's normal attack is quite potent.



A completely separate argument is that Mages are too powerful in the game. Well, that's a relative thing. You can solo this game on Nightmare with ANY class without too much difficulty, assuming that you know what you're doing. When the game allows you to beat it with one character of any class, then "too powerful" is really a relative thing. You can sit down all other members of a party and solo an encounter by yourself. Heck, rotate if you like. It's all doable, and it's all good.



What's "too powerful" when the least powerful class in the game wins anyway?



There is no shortage of things for ANY class to do in combat. Like AoE? You can use explosive flasks to back up your Warrior with just one point in Poison-Making. Warriors tend to be more effective at this because Flasks tend to be useful at close ranges, and Mages tend not to be there all the time.



Even at the end game, Flasks can save you having to one-hit 4 or 5 guys one at a time, it's more efficient than chugging a potion for Fireball, and it's essentially unlimited. Best of all, between the cooldown for 5 different kinds of Bombs, they essentially have a collective cooldown of maybe 5-8 seconds. You'll barely have time to use that War Cry and mode shifting.

[Kahryl]

What's "too powerful" when the least powerful class in the game wins anyway?

"too powerful" is when the other classes feel like they're just tagging along.  This has been explained to death.  <_<

no shortage of things to do in combat

Yes, things a mage could do better.

Modifié par Kahryl, 21 novembre 2009 - 03:17 .

[Wishpig]

Hell, I just gave morrigan two stamina regaining spells, and even after Final Blow I have no trouble regaining stamina.



I suppose if you didn't have a mage with the proper spells in your party this would be a frustrating problem though.

[pokemaughan]

OP is a douche