166 réponses à ce sujet

[vader da slayer]

Phaedon wrote...

Yeah...no, sorry, I disagree completely.

You don't pay for what the developers develop, not at all. Do you have any idea how many resources get cut during game development? A lot.

If the stand-alone game doesn't have enough content to justify it's price tag then don't buy it. If the DLC are not worth their price tag? DON'T buy them, it's that simple.

Anything beyond that is a bullsh*t excuse for piracy. No, you don't have the rights for anything that the developers develop. These are property of the company.

That is seriously the same as saying that if not every singly model that is currently in the alpha of ME3 is not in the final game, you should boycott the product.

agreed. I bought content for Fable 2 and couldn't believe how not worth it it was so when they released content for Fable 3 I didn't touch any of it, not even teh free stuff. you as the player has the ultimate control, DLC is not required to play a game so if you don't think it is worth it don't buy it.

and on your point on piracy I dont think its a bs excuse for piracy more than its a person greed. most people you talk to about DLC will say "its just publishers/developers being greedy". so its now greedy to be paid for services rendered? its now considered greedy to be compensated for putting in hours upon hours of work to produce something? what it really is is greedy gamers wanting things for free so they don't have to spend their money on something because they feel they are owed something because they invested money in a game when the money they've invested into the game was to pay for the cost of what they are playing. not for the DLC they want for free.

[AlanC9]

In Exile wrote...
What? Gamers have been riding a golden rainbow of savings for the last decade (or more). Development costs for AAA games have, what, tripled? quadrupled? in the last decade and the pricepoint of games (as you put it) has stayed the same. Producing games on a budget of 1.6 million and doing it on a budget of 16 million and charging $50 for both is a huge, huge saving for the consumer. 

Well, how huge a saving it is depends on the cash spent  to consumer enjoyment  produced function. I'm sure that isn't linear -- quadrupling the amount of money spent on making a game doesn't make it 4x as much fun.

And then there's the issue of how our expectations reset -- what was once awesome eventually becomes common, and eventually mandatory.

[Xerxes52]

Selling 108 kb unlock keys as "DLC" (i.e. paying for content already on the disc)?

Nope, that's what the $60 dollars was for. (It may not be illegal, but it is definitely unethical).

Selling content that's not on the disc (actual DLC)?

I'm fine with that, as long as it's a good value.

[AlanC9]

Xerxes, why is it unethical? Does the company have an obligation to put everything they possibly can on the DVD?

[jshadow]

Hehe, I knew it, the moment I saw the thread title, I said to myself: "This guy must've watched latest Totalbuscut." =P

[Srast]

I'm not going to be too long. I figure if the content is one the disk, that's content I've already paid for so it shouldn't be DLC. If the content is made after the game has gone gold, even if it's a day-one purchase I don't mind it. I love having DLC missions that extend the life of my game, and I'll pay for it as long as the price is right.

I think there's a right way to do DLC and a wrong way. I'll support what I think is good DLC and condemn bad DLC.

TotalBiscuit is a pretty loud personality, and he tends to go to extremes in his views. Works with his more 'shock jock' content delivery, but it can be very off-putting to some people.

[Xerxes52]

AlanC9 wrote...

Xerxes, why is it unethical? Does the company have an obligation to put everything they possibly can on the DVD?

Not at all. They can put whatever content they want on the disc, but when I buy a game, I have a reasonable expectation that I am paying to access the contents of the disc (of course, you can't even read the license agreement until after you have purchased the game and entered into the contract, so a reasonable expectation might be too much to hope for).
 
It's about paying for the content twice (the initial purchase plus whatever they decide to charge for the unlock key). I know most EULA's are packed to bursting with legalese, so game companies can legally get away with it, but it's still a slimy move and it just kills any respect I had for publishers.

It would be like buying a touring motorcycle (or in this case, buying a license to use the motorcycle according to the rules of the company) and finding out you have to pay an additional $500 to access and use the trunk.

It seems to be the trend now that game companies offer disc locked content for free if the game is bought new. I would be fine with that, it helps companies recoup their losses from second-hand sales and I usually buy my games new.

[Chuvvy]

I agree with him. I've seen this posted multiple places. I was fine with Shale, but I wasn't fine with Sebastien because you had to get a special edition. And he was cut content, they were talking about the special DLC character you would get months out, he could have easily been included in the game. And I have the same problem with the Prothean squadmember, if they're already talking about it he or she is being cut from the game and being released as DLC. That's not okay. Zaeed was fine he was given to anyone who bought a new copy of the game along with other free DLC. Kasumi, I'm a little iffy on it was far enough out to make me think she just wasn't ready but we had audio files of her in the game before the DLC was released or even mentioned so, I'm not sure on it.

[AlanC9]

Xerxes52 wrote...

Not at all. They can put whatever content they want on the disc, but when I buy a game, I have a reasonable expectation that I am paying to access the contents of the disc (of course, you can't even read the license agreement until after you have purchased the game and entered into the contract, so a reasonable expectation might be too much to hope for).
 
It's about paying for the content twice (the initial purchase plus whatever they decide to charge for the unlock key). I know most EULA's are packed to bursting with legalese, so game companies can legally get away with it, but it's still a slimy move and it just kills any respect I had for publishers.

It would be like buying a touring motorcycle (or in this case, buying a license to use the motorcycle according to the rules of the company) and finding out you have to pay an additional $500 to access and use the trunk.

It seems to be the trend now that game companies offer disc locked content for free if the game is bought new. I would be fine with that, it helps companies recoup their losses from second-hand sales and I usually buy my games new.

Thanks. All I can say to this is that I don't share those intuitions. I'm buying the game that they advertised to me, not that game plus whatever else is on the physical disc.

Note that if companies did adopt your position, the DLC content wouldn't become free. They'd simply not put the content on the disc even if it was ready to go when the disc was released to manufacturing.

Modifié par AlanC9, 16 juin 2011 - 03:50 .

[AlanC9]

Slidell505 wrote...

 And he was cut content, they were talking about the special DLC character you would get months out, he could have easily been included in the game.

But this is just confused. Talking about Sebastian months release before means that he was not "cut;" he wasn't planned to be in in the main game in the first place. 

Sure, he could have been in the main game. Bio could have done five or six more characters too. They also could have released the game for free.

Modifié par AlanC9, 16 juin 2011 - 03:26 .

[melkobelcha]

Any game that has day 1 DLC becomes a used game only buy for me. Day 1 DLC tells me the game is incomplete, and I will not buy an incomplete game.

I don't care if I have to wait 6 months and only save $5, I refuse to buy a game new that has day 1 DLC.

Bioware just lost a sell for me for ME3.

[AlanC9]

How many days would they have to hold the DLC to get you back? One? Five? A month?

[Beerfish]

One never really knows about DLC, the hows and whys it is available and such. There can be the situation where a company has planned out DLC from day one long ago and there can be cases where game content lockdown occurs well in advance of release thus allowing and opportunity for DLC to be developed.

For instance with ME3 they are a long ways out and have polishing and adjustments to do but they may have essentially locked major content. They may find that quests and or characters cut from the game can be developed enough for release on day one.

As for the concept of DLC, it has been around for hundreds of years. Charles Dickens wrote many of his novels in serialized versions, you would get pieces of the story over time (and probably paid for them separately.) Essentially added content over time.

[Captain Iglo]

The only thing I completely despise is retailer exklusive content in any form. Im fine with people getting something for preordering but nnot the fact that you have to preorder at a specific retailer...especially the fact that you only have the chance to get all dlc items if you buy the game multiple times!

[JayhartRIC]

melkobelcha wrote...

Any game that has day 1 DLC becomes a used game only buy for me. Day 1 DLC tells me the game is incomplete, and I will not buy an incomplete game.

I don't care if I have to wait 6 months and only save $5, I refuse to buy a game new that has day 1 DLC.

Bioware just lost a sell for me for ME3.

Why would you even buy it at alll?  Buying it used means you are guaranteed to have an "incomplete" game.  If you buy it new you get the dlc.

[AlanC9]

He's trying to teach them a lesson , I guess.

[MDT1]

I mostly support TB's view.
I'm very cautious about release day dlc and won't buy a game that goes to far with it.
As cutomers we and nobody else have the ultimate right to price a game and to define what should be in it. And even free DLC is mostly a loss of value for us cutomers.
Now the individual customers might get outvoted by the majority, but as he said my personal standars are more important to me then a PC game.

[MDT1]

JayhartRIC wrote...

melkobelcha wrote...

Any game that has day 1 DLC becomes a used game only buy for me. Day 1 DLC tells me the game is incomplete, and I will not buy an incomplete game.

I don't care if I have to wait 6 months and only save $5, I refuse to buy a game new that has day 1 DLC.

Bioware just lost a sell for me for ME3.

Why would you even buy it at alll?  Buying it used means you are guaranteed to have an "incomplete" game.  If you buy it new you get the dlc.

In my case it is because you pay a far more "incomplete" price

Also sometimes you just have to take a stance.

Modifié par MDT1, 16 juin 2011 - 04:29 .

[Lunatic LK47]

Captain Iglo wrote...

The only thing I completely despise is retailer exklusive content in any form. Im fine with people getting something for preordering but nnot the fact that you have to preorder at a specific retailer...especially the fact that you only have the chance to get all dlc items if you buy the game multiple times!

Bolded for emphasis. As I mentioned before. L.A. Noire became outright shady when they adopted this crap for two of their cases. What exactly would have happened if they weren't available as DLC on the Playstation Network and X-Box Live? 

[AlanC9]

Hey, at least you can play the damn game. Us PC gamers got completely screwed on that one.

[Arijharn]

 My 2 cents?

DLC is good. If it impresses me and I have to pay, I see no reason not to buy it. The Developers don't owe me anything beyond the enjoyment of the original purchase (aka; the game), and if they can't make that, then I trade it in or in some circumstances even get my money back.

The only 'slippery slope' to DLC is that you may not necessarily know much about the DLC to begin with, but as a concept behind DLC's, it's no more than any other EULA agreement you implicitly sign by installing and/or playing their game.

[LordNige]

The one thing that annoyed me about ME2 and its preorders was that, in the UK atleast, it was impossible to get The Collectors edition, The Inferno armour and the Terminus set they were all mutually exclusive. Add in the region specific Dr Pepper promo and you have one angry ME fan!
I do understand why more and more of EAs games are coming with day one DLC or preorder bonuses, rewarding people for buying new. Imagine that you made something that took a lot of time, money and effort to make and someone started selling it in a situation where you would see none of the profits. EA are just ensuring that they at least see some money from preowned sales. The balancing act is doing it fairly. 

[Shockwave81]

I am a sheep, no doubt about it. I've pre-ordered ME3 CE and I'm very much looking forward to all the 'goodies' that I'll get on release. A few bits and pieces to make my experience that much richer than anyone else buying the vanilla edition.

Sure, some (maybe even ALL) of it could/will end up being released as DLC to others, but everyone should be able to enjoy every aspect of Mass Effect, which is why I don't particularly like regional or store exclusivity.

[CroGamer002]

I'm still stunned from boycott do to 3 f*cking guns.