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Mages: How to attack w/o the 5th swing animation


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#1
thendcomes

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I was starting a solo Mage guide and realized that describing the mage attack behavior in its own thread might be helpful as a standalone guide. Some micro-ing is involved and this is obviously more important to a solo mage, but anyone interested in preventing melee damage on their mage can find it useful.

Video example. I'll be referring to this video to help explain some of the things going on here.

Intro:

The Mage’s staff attack is very much maligned for the long duration on the fifth attack animation. Every class has a long fifth attack animation, however mages do not have the luxury of passive increased attack speed talents and items that minimize the effect for Warriors and Rogues. Combat can sometimes involve shooting and running, so getting stuck on that fifth attack animation will often mean the difference between life and death. Understanding the mechanics of your auto attacks will go a long way to removing some frustration of playing a mage, and once mastered, will ultimately enhance your enjoyment of combat.

Note that the 5th swing does not lose out on DPS, because the damage is proportionate to length of the wing.

Attack sequence:
The auto attack sequence has 5 swings. After your fifth swing, you will start back at the first swing of the sequence. The first 4 swing animations are short and you are free to move at any time during the swing. The fifth swing animation is significantly longer, and you will find that sometimes you cannot move until the animation is complete. That is what we want to avoid. The most important thing to learn is that if your fifth swing comes immediately after your fourth swing, without moving or switching targets, you can move out of it, or cancel it. You can follow up by immediately attacking again to restart the cycle at the first swing, or cast a spell, use a health potion, run, etc. On the other hand, if you (a) move OR switch targets between the fourth and fifth swing, and (B) your fifth swing follows your fourth swing within ~2 seconds, you will not be able to cancel the fifth swing. You can see this happen when I screw up here.

Cancelling swings:
A swing only can be cancelled by the player by moving. (Getting knocked back, knocked down, or stunned will also cancel it.) It even counts if you tap the directional key so slightly you can’t even tell you moved. A swing which can be cancelled can be cancelled at any point, from the first frame of animation to the last frame.

Counting Staff swings:
In order to avoid the dreaded fifth swing animation, you will have to learn to count your staff swings. The most important thing to know is that a swing counts even if you cancel it. If you cancel it very early, you can tell that you have cancelled it by an animation that accompanies every swing. The fifth swing is most noticeable – it has a loud BOOM and a flashy animation depending on your staff element. However, even the other 4 swings have a subtle animation of their own, and you can learn to pick up on them as you play.

You can also use the special animation of the fourth swing to help if you lose count. The fourth swing is just as quick as the first 3 swings and you can always cancel out of it, however you can identify it by the shoot-behind-the-back move your mage does.

Restarting the attack sequence:
There are only 2 ways to restart the attack sequence.

1) Completing the attack sequence. Once the fifth animation has gone off, whether it completed or was canceled partway through, the sequence will begin at the first swing animation.

2) Refraining from attacking for about 2 seconds. Sometimes you have to cancel out of your fourth swing (seen here), or finish your fourth swing but move before you start the fifth swing. When you are kiting, in many cases you will not have the luxury of being able to finish the attack sequence because the long fifth animation will get you hit or killed. Simply keep running around for about 2 seconds and the sequence will restart.

What also works effectively is casting a spell. Unless you're hasted, most spells in your arsenal take about 2 seconds to cast, effectively restarting the attack sequence by casting. The only spell I've tried that fires too quickly is Spirit Bolt. Even summoning the Mabari works.

Mastering your auto attacks:
a) Keybind your “attack nearest target” function to an easily accessible key. I use R. Once you get your timing down, you will be an auto attack turret where you can swing 4 times, tap any direction immediately at the start of the fifth animation, then tap R again to resume auto attacking at swing 1.

The video shows what you should be aiming for. Doing it hasted is even a trickier. Notice how for a large part of the video you don't see the 5th swing, although I do screw up a couple times at the end.

B) Use spells (except Spirit Bolt) immediately after the fourth animation for maximum DPS. If you have the luxury of standing still to attack, swing 4 times before tossing out a Chain Lightning or Winter’s Grasp. Then swing 4 more times and use another spell, even if it’s re-summoning your Mabari. That minimizes the cancelling you have to do.

Modifié par thendcomes, 02 septembre 2011 - 10:43 .


#2
jaybee93

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I love the idea of this and I'm going to have to study your guide and see if I can work it out. If it works it'd be a real bonus, especially before I snag the lyrium rune. Thanks for the info.

#3
Recycled Human

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Awesome guide, I'm gonna have to try it out on xbox. Also cool dragon takedown! =O

#4
thendcomes

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Thanks guys, happy to help. ARW is currently uploading to youtube and is even more impressive. :-)

#5
mr_afk

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haha you inspired me to do that deep roads dragon solo DW. (http://www.youtube.c...h?v=cU4_0yqKfX0)

It's actually the biggest pain,. the patch really wasn't thinking about situations where you actually want to cancel your next attack after getting stunned. I kept getting stunned or knocked back, and instead of been able to move away to dodge the inevitable attack I automatically jumped forward to attack it and thus got hit again. So in effect I end up getting a knock-down lock as each bite/aoe = knockback/stun = jumping into another bite = knockback/dead

I would be more annoyed but I already hate this patch so much that it's almost expected. It seems to be designed to destroy any enjoyment I get from this game.

Anyway, looking forward to see your ARW

Modifié par mr_afk, 22 juin 2011 - 09:46 .


#6
thendcomes

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It could actually be faster... Turns out Hex of Torment is a complete waste of DPS. I also had a run where I ran into the room and landed a Cone of Cold on all the dragonlings + Dragon but it did not improve the time. I'll go back to it.

The ARW kill I have is 2:20, but the video just failed uploading to youtube last night after taking 10 hours to upload. Do you have to deal with the same thing? I recorded using Fraps, it's an 1.82g avi. Is there anything I can do to make this experience less annoying?

#7
mr_afk

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Haha that's what you get for playing on pc! :P
I suppose you could try converting it to a lower quality? I also find that using MP4 formats work better. My videos are usually about half a gig and take around 30min-1 hour to upload. It's a bit of a pain (as it completely kills my internet browsing speed) so I generally do it later at night/when I'm not using the internet.

Anyway, hex of torment is pretty useful- though I suppose since you only have 1 player attacking it won't make as big a difference. The biggest difference will be when you have an upgraded hex- so maybe instead of getting elemental mastery you could focus a little more on entropy?
It depends on whether the extra +25% cold damage is better than 100% crit chance for a while. If you managed to brittle it (next to impossible without elemental mastery) you could deal some pretty spectacular damage (+100% damage) but otherwise it may not be worth it.

From my experiences a cone of cold can one-shot dragonlings and can make a considerable difference. Though I'm not sure how you would deal with many enemies with a mage (no threat reduction/single target dps).

Anyway, I'm thinking a solo DW ARW speed run is in order. Should be fun :)

Modifié par mr_afk, 22 juin 2011 - 04:25 .


#8
thendcomes

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I'm dumb. I googled it and found out I can just put it into Windows Movie Maker to convert to wmv, and the file is 1/10 the size. It's uploading now.

As for Hex of Torment: the actual spell cast animation takes about as long as 3 swings of the staff. I think it's as simple as the extra damage you get (5 seconds on Dragon, about 3 seconds on ARW) does not compensate for the loss of auto attacks, not to mention mana loss. I didn't do the calculations but I was using Hex on ARW for many attempts, and once I stopped my time increased significantly.

The 100% crit chance would be awesome, especially since a mage's crit chance is so low. But, for starters, crit damage is not high. If you geared up to get crit damage to a respectable amount, even then you'd be able to get 1 spell off, maybe 2, that could take advantage of it. Then there's the opportunity cost of spending 6 points in Entropy for a spell that is only available every 40 seconds. Overall, I'd say 25% damage boost 100% of the time (if using cold anyway) is worth more DPS, though I wouldn't know for sure without testing.

#9
thendcomes

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Nice video by the way. That is CRAZY what they did with obscure, it's basically permanently on. Decoy is so amazing, but it always has been. Looks like a lot of fun.

#10
mr_afk

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Hmm how did you get around that stupid rolling phase?
Haven't had to deal with it for a while and can't remember if there's anything to do to speed it up. Does it stop rolling around after a certain time period or only after you deal enough damage? And did you just run around kiting it for the period?

My camera just ran out of batteries so I think I'm going to give up for now. It seems pretty silly how friggin' long you have to spend running around getting chased by a rolling ball which doesn't get injured because it's damage resistance sky-rockets.

I can't quite figure out a way to reliably attack it in that phase with a DW. Decoy+attacking its back works but decoy has a reasonable cooldown and archery suffers an annoying locked-into-animation issue; so the only real option if I don't want to be suicidal is to simply avoid it. But it seems wrong to just run around not attacking it; PLUS I just tested it- it's almost certainly not time-based. Unless they expect you to wait 5-6minutes while it rolls (that's how long I avoided it until it hit me through a wall several times in a row)

Well, I did it on casual in 1:30 so I suppose that counts for something hahaha

#11
thendcomes

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Just watch the video... I do so much damage that he immediately enters the 2nd glowing phase after the first one is finished. He opens up the third attacking phase by doing his "vacuum" move, and you can continue to attack if you keep most of your body behind the pillar. Then he glows again and you can finish him off while he's on the ground.

A DW assassin would be incredibly difficult to do without many stealths and many pots. Altogether it probably wouldn't be the best speed run. But what do I know.

#12
mr_afk

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Heh, did it second try after I woke up. (http://www.youtube.c...h?v=quVjFYXc9rU)
Goes to show playing drunk actually doesn't help things :P

It's 3minutes but I guess that's all you can expect when you can't use elemental weaknesses.

Modifié par mr_afk, 23 juin 2011 - 05:51 .


#13
thendcomes

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Awesome. The only points you can make up any time are at the beginning (how long it takes dropping to 90%) and at the end right before the glowing phase and right after. The majority of the difference on ours was that I can attack him in vacuum mode and you can't, otherwise it was pretty similar.

Really nice job.

#14
Recycled Human

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This certainly works on xbox and it's really cool when you can pull it off. I'm certain with enough practice one could be really proficient at this! Great guide.

One question : I seem to see what appears to be a force effect that applies on the fifth attack. Is this cosmetic or does the fifth swing actually apply more force?

#15
thendcomes

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The amount of force is directly related to the damage done. I'm not aware of it innately producing more force than the other attacks.