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Will Mass Effect 3 utilize Dragon Age 2's conversation system/mechanics?


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#1
Yurdle The Turtle

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Just something I've been thinking about.

I've only played Dragon Age 2's demo (it was mainly to see if my laptop could play such games), so I may be missing out on many of the intracacies of DA2's mechanics. Still, I've read an article to help out.

DA2 uses the same dialogue wheel as all Mass Effect games do, although it brings in some interesting changes. The ones I know of are:
-Icons that appear in the middle of the wheel when selecting a choice.
-Behind-the-scenes personality tracking, which affects how your character involuntarily (i.e he/she talks without the player making a choice) reacts in both combat and non-combat situations.

From what I've read in the linked article, these two systems make things surprisingly deeper. You can check it out yourself if you're interested (or already played DA2 enough to know how things work).

I'm wondering if these innovations DA2 introduced will also carry over into ME3. At the moment, it seems the answer is "no" based on the recent E3 demo (the system is completely unchanged), but in my opinion they would serve the next Mass Effect game quite well.

Icons are a no-brainer - They help represent the choices better and in some cases can provide more/important information without being intrusive. For example, in general, left handed choices lead to additional dialogue, generally to get more (non-essential) information. However, in a lot of cases in ME1/2, this was misleading because sometimes left-hand choice ended up being a neutral choice of advancing the dialogue rather than the investigating I wanted. As you can guess, this results in the player unintentionally advancing the main dialogue and picking the 'wrong' choice in his/her opinion (Perhaps the player wanted a Paragon/Renegade choice).

An icon can solve this by making it clear what leads to additional information, in addition to just being plain useful as we're more receptive to pictures than text (even if it's coloured text).

Meanwhile, the personality system would work out awesomely in ME3. There are a lot of moments where Shepard involuntarily talks - allowing this to be influenced by alignment could add a great deal to the game. A simple example would be the involuntary dialogue during the E3 demo. Anderson makes a bunch of comments and Shepard involuntarily responds. With the new personality system, this would be different based alignment. Perhaps a Paragon would say something like "You and me both!" when Anderson states he hopes the Normandy arrives soon, and perhaps a Renegade would say something like "They better damn well get here!".

Again, it seems unlikely as the recent showing has shown the ME conversation system is unchanged, but I'm wondering if it was considered or if I'm wrong about it not being in the game.

Modifié par Yurdle The Turtle, 16 juin 2011 - 03:23 .


#2
javierabegazo

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Eh, I think the icons are too....arcady. I hope they stay in DA2 and out of ME

#3
greed89

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I would support this whole heartedly

#4
onelifecrisis

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We didn't see any DA2 style icons in the E3 demos, so I'm guessing not.

#5
greed89

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onelifecrisis wrote...

We didn't see any DA2 style icons in the E3 demos, so I'm guessing not.


Its a Demo they could still put them in

#6
DanSbez

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The icons should be for DA2 alone, leave ME conversation wheel alone its fine as it is.

#7
greed89

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the ME conversation wheel is fine but it could still be improved

The DA2 wheel was just that an improvement on the concept it would be a shame not to use it

#8
Dr. Nexas

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I can't see them putting in the icons, but I could see them implementing the personality tracking.

#9
Malanek

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I don't particularly like the paragon/renegade entrenchment in ME conversations but the system is too entrenched to take it out now. The icons are only needed because of the lack of such a system. Leave it for another game.

#10
battleroyale565

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I could live without the icons popping up in the conversation wheel, but your lines being influenced by your previous conversation choices like in DA2 would be pretty sweet.

#11
javierabegazo

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greed89 wrote...

the ME conversation wheel is fine but it could still be improved

The DA2 wheel was just that an improvement on the concept it would be a shame not to use it

No, I think it would be a shame to assume that the "Jerk" "Nice Guy" and "Funny Guy" archytypes translate well to Mass Effect's ethos of Paragon and Renegade. I like the evolution of Personality based on your previous choices beyond simply locking you out of dialogue, but the Icons are silly, and tend to make conversation more black and white, and ignore all the intricate shades of Grey inbetween.

#12
Lunatic LK47

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javierabegazo wrote...

Eh, I think the icons are too....arcady. I hope they stay in DA2 and out of ME


It sure beats getting ninja romanced with Jacob if you're just picking nothing but the upper-right choice just because "it's usually the nice thing." The only thing I'm going to blame user error on is for situations like "I want you Thane" to not mean they want to bump uglies with him.

#13
greed89

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javierabegazo wrote...

greed89 wrote...

the ME conversation wheel is fine but it could still be improved

The DA2 wheel was just that an improvement on the concept it would be a shame not to use it

No, I think it would be a shame to assume that the "Jerk" "Nice Guy" and "Funny Guy" archytypes translate well to Mass Effect's ethos of Paragon and Renegade. I like the evolution of Personality based on your previous choices beyond simply locking you out of dialogue, but the Icons are silly, and tend to make conversation more black and white, and ignore all the intricate shades of Grey inbetween.


But thats already there in the current system, you just "play pretend" a whole lot more

#14
neubourn

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I doubt it, but what i DO hope they steal from DA2 is how your morality choices affect your tone in normal dialogue. As it stands, you have to choose top or bottom to get the tone, which goes along with morality, but it would be nice to have an overall tone for all dialogue options, based on your P/R levels.

#15
mcsupersport

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greed89 wrote...

the ME conversation wheel is fine but it could still be improved

The DA2 wheel was just that an improvement on the concept it would be a shame not to use it


You think it is an improvement, others such as myself think it is just a simple way to make the game even easier and a total step back in quality.  Why not just use the symbols to choose what you want, put a heart on the outside maybe a gun, a paragon symbol and a renegade symbol and you just choose the symbol to get the "awesome" dialog action.........um no, leave the kiddy symbols in DA2 or even just flush them all.

Red and Blue text are easy enough as it is.



I would like the character tracking and influence on dialog, that would be a welcome addition.

#16
Yurdle The Turtle

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Please note that the icons don't have to remain exactly the same as in DA2. I'm pretty sure if they were ever introduced there would be a way to make it fit the ME universe. I agree that it's likely they won't make it into ME3, but they do have their benefits if done right.

As someone else alluded to, one great example is using it to make it clear what choice would lead to romance and what choice would be "No thanks, but I'd still like to talk more with you". Just an example.

Modifié par Yurdle The Turtle, 16 juin 2011 - 03:22 .


#17
Malanek

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javierabegazo wrote...
but the Icons are silly, and tend to make conversation more black and white, and ignore all the intricate shades of Grey inbetween.

This I have to completely disagree with. In ME you have just 3 options. Paragon, neutral (and taking this disadvantaged you in game mechanics) or Renegade. In DA2 you had about 10. The framework behind the dialogue system is much, much, much less black and white than ME.

Modifié par Malanek999, 16 juin 2011 - 03:21 .


#18
Cainne Chapel

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I have to agree that I DID enjoy the fact that the characters personality, tone and delivery would change based on the conversations made.

I would like to see a revised version of the system for ME3 as it stands right now there's really only the paragon/renegade/neutral....tone if you will. Having your shephards delivery be a bit more nuanced based on the type of conversation options chosen would lend a bit more towards having shephard be the way you want him or her to be. (Personally I'd like a snarky shepard...)

#19
Phate Phoenix

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The only thing I would want is some indication if a line will start a romance. I don't know if that means turning the line pink, or gold, or green, or whatever. :lol: (I actually avoid talking to Jacob now, entirely, just to avoid entering a romance with him. It's happened to me twice before, so I take no chances.) Otherwise, I wouldn't want the icons. The colored text is what Mass Effect does.

#20
Gatt9

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I'm not paying for any game that is so "Streamlined" that it uses Icons just so people don't have to read 5 words. That's just seriously insulting, and screams to me that the Developer isn't interested in making an RPG, they're interested in getting some other market segment to buy the game.

There's reasons why DA2 didn't sell, the Wheel of "Idontwannahaftaread" is pretty high up in the list of people's issues with DA2, and the icons exacerbated things.

ME3 needs to leave things alone, they don't need any of Laidlaw's "Awesome".

#21
onelifecrisis

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Gatt9 wrote...

I'm not paying for any game that is so "Streamlined" that it uses Icons just so people don't have to read 5 words.


The problem is that those 5 words are, in the ME games, very frequently misleading. If BW would just write those 5 words better there'd be no problem, but apparently that's too difficult, so an icon system is a valid alternative.

#22
Les_Carver

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No way, ME's dialogue wheel should remain the way it is, there's no need for some icons in the middle of it in to make clear the intentions of the dialogue option you're choosing.

In DA2 maybe they are (because the dialogue sometimes wasn't enough for you to realize that that exact option could turn out to be one of Hawke's many goofy comments instead of a serious one), but in ME, that's not necesary IMO.

#23
MinotaurWarrior

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I'd very much appreciate it, so that you could tell which dialog options end the conversation, move it forward, clarify points, et cetera, and what 'sort' of paragon/neutral/renegade option your choice was (kind/diplomatic/idealistic are all very different sides of paragonism)

#24
javierabegazo

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greed89 wrote...

But thats already there in the current system, you just "play pretend" a whole lot more


But that pretend game is just WHY I like to play Role-Playing-Games.

#25
Sesshomaru47

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I hope not because that was dumb. We all know that the top one is Paragon, the middle a fence sitter and the bottom jerk-town. We don't need icons to tell us this now, nor do I think they should change the middle option to a smart alec answer.