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Samara the Justicar Support Thread


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#576
Dean_the_Young

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whywhywhywhy wrote...

Laughable.  You claim the Majority has the "greater good" to be concerned with, it's more about maintaining the status quo.

That's only when the majority is firmly empowered and a signle ctor. This is incredibly rare: even 'informal' heirarchies put a minority in power and the majority underneath.



Aside from the fact that we have no idea how the Asari's society is run and you pretend to comment on it.

Except... we do. We have codex and character conversations with Asari, and even an Asari world.

If we don't accept codex and conversations with subject-relevant characters and even actual Asari places, there is just about nothing else that can be accepted. You've invalidated any source.

  Again the implication that minority (A-Y) can't be objective is asinine and based only from the perspective of the Majority which in and of itself is bias.

A majority not directly involved with a subject is biased.

Suggesting that a minority personally involved in a situation can also be biased is foolish.


Yeah... right.

#577
Xilizhra

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We may disagree with her decision, but it was always up to her to decide, according to her specific values and beliefs. It may not be what we would have decided, but for Samara it was the only path.

All I can say is that now that the Morinth issue is over, I really hope I can get her to let the justicar thing go.

#578
Dean_the_Young

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S Seraff wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So, I wonder...

Would Samara be willing to stop being a justicar if it was somehow, hypothetically, linked to finding a cure for the Ardat-Yakshi condition? Of course, I'm curious if she'd stop being a justicar for anything, because I don't think it's psychologically good for her and she no longer needs it anyway with Morinth dead, but eh.

No.


Possibly - after all we dont know all 5000 of the sutras, there may be an escape clause ;)

The question wasn't 'can Samara.' The question is 'would Samara be willing.'

And Samara already answered that that she does intend to continue being a Justicar, has already cut ties with her family, and shown no interest or investment in a cure having any role in changing that position.

#579
Red Son Rising

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can justicars call in backup? is there a 1-800-JUS-T-CAR hotline they call when isht really hits the fan cause im not so sure samara is gonna make it to ME3 right now. samara is an interesting character and all but she might be even more interesting dead

[breathe, breathe] hear me out. what happens if samara kills morinth? nothing? at best a high five and a side mission, maybe an extra line or two of dialogue in ME3. but if shepard helps mori and send samara packing all sorts of things can happen

does mori get exposed? does the Justicar League come after shep? does anyone even care? im having a hard time choosing between samaras future and morinths past: everyone needs a friend], even serial killers but [potentially] being boring in ME3? unthinkable

#580
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*

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Stop being a Justicar may be even more difficult than becoming one.

Justicar doesn't strike me as a career that you can graduate out of. Perhaps she can try fighting injustice non-violently? Via diplomacy or legislation perhaps? But those options are personally unappealing to Samara because she is a warrior. Before she was a Justicar she was a mercenary. Fighting is clearly her greatest talent.

On the other hand the reason she became a Justicar may simply be that she cannot stand the idea of the alternatives - mercenary, Commando service, local police/sheriff in a lawless district, or corporate security. Morinth occupies Samara's mind regardless of what Samara chooses as a profession. This combined with Samara's martial prowess naturally leads to Justicar.

In short: It may not be advisable for every mother of an Ardat-Yakshi to become a Justicar, but for Samara personally it is the most natural choice, because she was a talented warrior even before she became a mother.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 11 octobre 2011 - 08:40 .


#581
PauseforEffect

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Don't remember if I typed this in, but does anyone have any thoughts as to what happened with Samara's bondmate? Did she die shortly after the third child was born? It's a little odd how there's no mention of what happened...

#582
Asenza

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PrimalEden wrote...

Don't remember if I typed this in, but does anyone have any thoughts as to what happened with Samara's bondmate? Did she die shortly after the third child was born? It's a little odd how there's no mention of what happened...


None at all. It's not even hinted at.
Damn it, LOTSB documents...

That's what I'm hoping gets expanded on in ME3- who was her bondmate, did they break up because the children were all ardat-yakshi or because of Morinth in particular, did she die, where is she now, is Samara going to let them (or her other two daughters know) that Morinth is gone... etc.

Modifié par Asenza, 12 octobre 2011 - 03:17 .


#583
Flamewielder

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Dean_the_Young wrote...
There are, actually: the legality of wars depending on the laws of the state involved, and the agreements made by that state with others.

That's the whole point: each state writes up their own laws according to what the cultural conscensus is. There is no "supreme law" that bars either state from attacking the other for whatever reason. Don't confuse diplomacy with justice.

There are plenty of wars and policies throughout history waged not for 'practical' reasons such as economic or even direct military/strategic advantage, but ideology. The largest failing of the Realist school of political relations is that governments often don't follow the 'practical' rationals.

Just because a state makes an irrational decision doesn't mean it's not trying to gain some sort of material advantage for itself; a dictator may be quite litterally insane but still want something from some neighbouring state that can only be secured through armed conflict. If charismatic enough (or backed by a solid nucleus of insiders, like a ruling party), he'll use whatever ideological gimmick he can to get the population to follow. Ideology is a tool, and is certainly amoral. It doesn't promote ethical virtue, it just promotes whatever suits the state's needs.

It isn't a guarantee, but it is a far better check. The same applies with even non-endorsed special agents: the rule of law doesn't guarantee that the law will always rule, but societies based on rule of law are better than authoritarian fiat.

And as established previously, laws only exist inside individual states. Treaties are made between states and some sort of arbitration mechanism will be set up to settle disputes but there is no "police" oversight. There is only the threat of coercitive measures (authoritarian fiat) that encourages states to honor their agreements. States act neighbourly because they gain from the peace and status quo. When the status quo is no longer acceptable, the gloves come off quickly enough.

There's a word for people who kill others pro bono out of personal conviction, and that word is 'murderer.'


And when they dispense justice and their decisions have force of law, they are hailed as heroes. Would I endorse such a system on Earth? No. Does it work for the asari? Apparently, yes, even if it is an archaic throwback to medieval days. And while Illium is not part of asari space, it IS an asari-dominated world and I think Justicars would think twice before actually trying to hunt an A-Y on any planet not dominantly populated by asari. They understand how law-enforcement work and would probably arrange for local authorities to "flush out" their target and get it deported back to asari space. Omega is a lawless no-man's land, so Samara's authority there was no more or less legitimate than Aria's.

#584
Flamewielder

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Asenza wrote...
None at all. It's not even hinted at.

Not quite accurate: the list of belongings mentions a memorial sphere of her bondmate, an item that suggests her bondmate is deceased. I'd say that's a hint.

#585
Asenza

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Flamewielder wrote...

Asenza wrote...
None at all. It's not even hinted at.

Not quite accurate: the list of belongings mentions a memorial sphere of her bondmate, an item that suggests her bondmate is deceased. I'd say that's a hint.


Oh. Right. Damn it.

I don't think I ever read Samara's LOTSB document in full. Still, some information about them would be nice, what their relationship was like, how did they die (I mean, we get tons of info on Erinya's family and she's not even a squadmate).

I just KNOW (voice shaking with desperate hope) that Samara will be a full LI in the next game, and that we'll get the chance to talk to her about her previous bondmate.

#586
PauseforEffect

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Flamewielder wrote...

Asenza wrote...
None at all. It's not even hinted at.

Not quite accurate: the list of belongings mentions a memorial sphere of her bondmate, an item that suggests her bondmate is deceased. I'd say that's a hint.


Ohhhhhh, ok. That scratches that little itch in the back of my head. So her bondmate died after the third child was born (unless Samara had triplets) and was around at least to help raise the first and second child.
Darn, cannot get this scene out of my head
Falere: Mommmyyyyyy.......I have to goooo.
Samara: Your turn.
Bondmate: She called for you.
Samara: We both are mothers!  And it's your turn!
Bondmate: You're the one who birthed her!
Samara: You helped too!
Falere: MOMMY!
Samara and bondmate at same time: WHAT??!!
Falere: I just went.
*Samara and bondmate look at each other*
Both: YOUR turn.

#587
Weiser_Cain

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Just got turned down by Samara, Of course I knew it was coming, but it was still more bitter that sweet.
So close, plus I wondered if I pushed too hard would it screw up my chances in ME3?
Dammit woman!

#588
GMagnum

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SAMARA IS SO HOT, SMOOTH SILKY BLUE SKIN, BIG BEAUTIFUL EYES, FKIN SLAMMIN T1TTIES, BIG BEAUTIFUL ROUND APPLE AZZ, GONNA SO TAP DAT IN ME3 AFTER MIRANDA OF COURSE

#589
magelet

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iOnlySignIn wrote...

Stop being a Justicar may be even more difficult than becoming one.

Justicar doesn't strike me as a career that you can graduate out of.


I agree with this. Also, I don't think Samara is one to be convinced so easily, that is, I doubt Shepard would be able to make her stop being a Justicar if she didn't want to stop.

I always felt like being a justicar was kind of a life-long committment anyway. She did give up pretty much everything in her life before too.

#590
Weiser_Cain

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Yeah, but go look at that scene again, she was this | | close to giving in.
And Shepard, at least my Shepard is a Specter, apart from the code I'm as close to a Justicar as humanly possible. I gave that one dude 1000 credits.
She wouldn't need to quit, just loosen up.

#591
magelet

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Justicars don't seem to think much of Spectres really, if how Samara basically owned Nihlus is any evidence. Essentially, I think they don't respect any authority, Council or otherwise, but their own.

Of course, Samara is also the only Justicar we have seen, so there could always be differences there.

#592
Flamewielder

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Absolutely. Some may be motivated by very different perceptions of the Code and its application. Some might be more or less compassionate than Samara in the way they manoeuvre around the Code, just as judges may be in real life. Some are likely more lenient than others.

#593
Ravensword

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I don't know about that. It seems that all justicars have strictly adhere to code. They only see black and white when comes to dealing w/ people who've committed a crime.

#594
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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Link

“clmlizard: Will the attempted romance with Samara be remembered or acknowledge in ME3?”

MW:
For all the relationship options, we always try to carry those forward
as much as we can and have all of them available. And the attempted
Samara romance is one that we’ve tracked and we do have something for
ME3, yes.

Anyone else quite happy to hear this?

#595
Xilizhra

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I'm... cautiously intrigued.

#596
Athayniel

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Xilizhra wrote...

I'm... cautiously intrigued.


This. I'm not going to get my hopes up but I am more hopeful now that she will have more than a cameo. Though I should probably tamp that down just to be safe.

#597
Asenza

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Lizardviking wrote...

Link

“clmlizard: Will the attempted romance with Samara be remembered or acknowledge in ME3?”

MW:
For all the relationship options, we always try to carry those forward
as much as we can and have all of them available. And the attempted
Samara romance is one that we’ve tracked and we do have something for
ME3, yes.

Anyone else quite happy to hear this?


Yay!!!!! *dances crazy*

#598
Flamewielder

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Ravensword wrote...

I don't know about that. It seems that all justicars have strictly adhere to code. They only see black and white when comes to dealing w/ people who've committed a crime.


That's true. Yet Samara seems to go out of her way to achieve the most compassionate outcome allowed by the Code. A more ruthless Justicar might not care and simply go for the quickest resolution. While the Code is certainly rigid (and Laws always are) we must also realize 5000 sutras "covering every situation a Justicar may encounter" can only cover these situations in broad terms. It's up to the Justicar to decide how best to fulfil the intent of the Code.

Actual legislation is usually composed of two elements: 1) a statement of intent/purpose phrased in general terms, often referred to as "the Act" and 2) the actual regulations stating the specifics of each situation, often described as "the Regulations". It's hard to imagine how 5000 sutras could cover the specifics of any possible crime, so we can assume the Code to have more in common with the "Act" than the "Regulations".

I'd like to see a confrontation between Samara and another, perhaps stricter and ruthless Justicar in ME3, moreso than any pointless confrontation between Samara and Shepard (an exercise in futility serving no purpose and not providing any character development or furthering the plot, as you'll just reload until you kill her). After all, Spectres seem to clash regularly over how to best serve the Council's interests: Shepard's killed two already!

#599
warlock22

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Asenza wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Link

“clmlizard: Will the attempted romance with Samara be remembered or acknowledge in ME3?”

MW:
For all the relationship options, we always try to carry those forward
as much as we can and have all of them available. And the attempted
Samara romance is one that we’ve tracked and we do have something for
ME3, yes.

Anyone else quite happy to hear this?


Yay!!!!! *dances crazy*


YES!! Samara LI in ME3!:D

#600
Asenza

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warlock22 wrote...

Asenza wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Link

“clmlizard: Will the attempted romance with Samara be remembered or acknowledge in ME3?”

MW:
For all the relationship options, we always try to carry those forward
as much as we can and have all of them available. And the attempted
Samara romance is one that we’ve tracked and we do have something for
ME3, yes.

Anyone else quite happy to hear this?


Yay!!!!! *dances crazy*


YES!! Samara LI in ME3!:D


Don't... jump for joy just yet. We don't know what that "something" for the Samara romancers is. It could be a more complete but still lacking pseudo-romance like Kelly's for Samara in ME3.

It could also mean just that, that Samara will acknowledge the advance, "I remember that you cared for me. It still cannot be." And nothing else.

I'm hoping for more, so much freaking more, but we're just going to have to wait X_X. I am going to Dance Crazy that the romance attempt will be recognized at all.

Please... Bioware! Full romance with Samara? I already have a Shepard for Liara, and Samara is just so much more mature!

Modifié par Asenza, 15 octobre 2011 - 07:36 .