2338 réponses à ce sujet

[Premier Bromanov]

AshiraShepard wrote...

Romanced she holds your hand and tells you to spend what time you have with people who care about you, that came across as caring to me.

But non-romanced, unless I'm wrong, all she says is that you will both be tested in fire soon enough.

I need to see a video of how she says the latter to prove my perspective.

She holds your hand?!    Wow, I didn't even think to ask about how the scenes differ non-verbally.  Does she smile?  Does she say her lines with more emotion?  I gotta run through this with an "almost-romance" save!

[Ashira Shepard]

I don't think she smiled, but I will snap a bunch of screens when I reach that part in the game so you can see

[Ashira Shepard]

Curious what you guys think, if we haven't already discussed this:

Since it was brought up more in ME3, what do you guys think Samara's view would be on Shepard's transhumanism? The cybernetics used to rebuild Shep along with all the upgrades you can use for skin, bones, muscles etc?

Shepard becoming more and more synthetic; worrying? Abhorrent? Complete indifference?

This is with the assumption that they have a Paragon relationship as opposed to a Renegade one.

[Premier Bromanov]

I'm not sure. She's been around long enough to know about complications regarding synthetics and humans. She might have a personal interest in warning Shepard about losing her humanity amongst the silicon and wires. Or, she might get philosophical about the Ship of Theseus.

[Ashira Shepard]

"Ship of Theseus"?

/derp

[spirosz]

SPOILERS


Oh man, I was not expecting her to want to shoot herself near the end of her mission to find her daughters... that really had my emotions going everywhere. Did anyone let her do that?



SPOILERS

[Ashira Shepard]

Are you kidding? I have never freaked out so much while trying to click my mouse.

[Sylvf]

Premier Bromanov wrote....

Having a writer around makes me nervous about the precision of my analysis of the Ardat-Yakshi Monastery mission and the meeting with Samara on the Citadel.

Sorry, making you nervous was never my intention! I just hopped on to clarify the romance/non-romance split. Please feel free to analyze all you want - people need room to discuss and interpret events they played through.  I certainly don't come to these threads to provide definitive answers on those sorts of ruminations, or to judge what your interpretations are. That's for you guys to have fun with.

[Ashira Shepard]

Thank you Sylvf :3

It's fun to interpret. ^^

On a more depressing note regards the monastery mission, I was reading through TvTropes as I do, and this was written in the Tearjerker section:

Spoilery-

"Samara then commits suicide if you don't stop her. And it's entirely possible to then mercilessly gun down Falere right over her mother's body. Seeing an entire family get slaughtered in the space of minutes is heartbreaking, and it's so callous that it might just make you hate a Shepard that does it. "

 So glad. I reacted.

I generally trusted the site to be well maintained so it's unlikely to be false.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 14 mars 2012 - 12:40 .

[Premier Bromanov]

spiros9110 wrote...

SPOILERS


[spoilers]



SPOILERS

My hand was on the mouse, but I was too shocked to immediately comprehend what was going on.  "Deer-in-headlights", you know.  I did hit the interrupt in time, though.

Is there a renegade interrupt for that?  If so, is it the same as the paragon interrupt?

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 14 mars 2012 - 12:42 .

[Ashira Shepard]

I have...no idea. I'm kind of scared to look up the scene on youtube, same way I really do not want to see what happened to Jack if you don't save the academy. :<

[Premier Bromanov]

AshiraShepard wrote...

"Ship of Theseus"?

/derp

It's a paradox of essentialism.  If you remove and replace every piece of an object, is it still the same object?  How, and why?  Is it a different object?  How, and why?  Is there a certain number of pieces that can be removed and replaced while still keeping the object the same?  If so, what is this number, how did you determine it, and how is it not arbitrary?

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 14 mars 2012 - 12:55 .

[Ashira Shepard]

That would be...an interesting conversation to be sure.

ME3 gave a big chunk of developement for my Shep who I pictured losing sight of her instinctual familiarity and empathy with humans during ME2. A manifestation from the stress of dying, waking up as Cerberus's pawn and everything else.

If she had that conversation with Samara, I could certainly see it leaning towards Shep thinking she isn't the same anymore.

What about your Shepard(s) York?

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 14 mars 2012 - 01:02 .

[Premier Bromanov]

AshiraShepard wrote...

That would be...an interesting conversation to be sure.

ME3 gave a big chunk of developement for my Shep who I pictured losing sight of her instinctual familiarity and empathy with humans during ME2. A manifestation from the stress of dying, waking up as Cerberus's pawn and everything else.

If she had that conversation with Samara, I could certainly see it leaning towards Shep thinking she isn't the same anymore.

What about your Shepard(s) York?

What about him?  You mean the transhumanism conversation with Samara?

[Ashira Shepard]

Yes, I know how my Shep would react to such a conversation. So curious about others.

[HolyAvenger]

The suicide scene was great. At the time I didn't like it, it didn't seem-Samara like, but then on reflection...she had to kill Morinth, then seeing what Rila did then the Code forcing her hand over Falere. Heartbreaking stuff.

Good to see Shep doing his save-everybody act again. Looking forward to my Renegade playthrough where I won't take the interrupt.

[Premier Bromanov]

AshiraShepard wrote...

Yes, I know how my Shep would react to such a conversation. So curious about others.

Never really thought about it.  I'll have to get back to you on that one.

[Ashira Shepard]

You'll have to excuse me if I don't look forward to your renegade playthrough.

You can tell when she talks about Morinth afterwards that she did not enjoy having to kill Morinth, "ruined vessel of sorrow and regret" anyone? Rila made a heroic sacrifice for them after dutifully remaining in the monastery and finally Falere did absolutely nothing to warrant the Code's death sentence.

For some reason I always assumed Samara to be a protective mother, before all this tragedy happened, so the fact that she rather kill herself to avoid killing her last daughter seems to fit.

[HolyAvenger]

Yes, she's very much hanging on to her code and then when it comes down to her code or her last daughter, who never did anything wrong...I can see how she would think that would be the only way out.

Don't mind me, I'm a completionist-freak who explores consequences in my "non-canon" playthroughs. There's some genuinely brilliant BioWare writing most fans never see for the fact they can't bring themselves to make "bad" choices. Youtube views are just not the same for me.

[Ashira Shepard]

The only way I ever had Morinth on my team was through save file editing.

I have just one Shepard. And I could not watch her betray Samara. Such much contradiction...

But I can get the reasoning behind a different playthrough.

[TMA LIVE]

AshiraShepard wrote...

You'll have to excuse me if I don't look forward to your renegade playthrough.

You can tell when she talks about Morinth afterwards that she did not enjoy having to kill Morinth, "ruined vessel of sorrow and regret" anyone? Rila made a heroic sacrifice for them after dutifully remaining in the monastery and finally Falere did absolutely nothing to warrant the Code's death sentence.

For some reason I always assumed Samara to be a protective mother, before all this tragedy happened, so the fact that she rather kill herself to avoid killing her last daughter seems to fit.

I really wish I could have told Samara to take her code, and shove it up her ass. Her daughter is alone on a planet invaded by Reapers. Instead of wasting her daughter or herself on a stupid code, she should try to help her daughter that doesn't involve suicide.

But I couldn't tell her that. Luckily, her daughter had a solution. But her daughter shouldn't be stuck living completely alone.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 14 mars 2012 - 02:04 .

[Premier Bromanov]

Would kind of undermine an essential element Samara's character if you could tell her to forget about the Code for a moment. You could hop around her while waving your arms and saying "Oath of Subsumation! Oath of Subsumation!"

[Ashira Shepard]

 I wish you could've just pulled that on her. The god damn Oath. Just immediate trump card: "My mission has always been to defeat the Reapers, I haven't done that yet so you're still under Oath, thus still under my commander; PUT THE F*CKING GUN DOWN."
But you know... 

[HolyAvenger]

The whole thing which made the Code so interesting was its absolute black-and-whiteness. I spent a fair amount of time in ME2 wondering what kind of situation would make Samara break it. So I was damn well pleased to say that play out (briefly) in ME3. Wish the Citadel conversation could've talked about it a little more.

[Premier Bromanov]

HolyAvenger wrote...

The whole thing which made the Code so interesting was its absolute black-and-whiteness. I spent a fair amount of time in ME2 wondering what kind of situation would make Samara break it. So I was damn well pleased to say that play out (briefly) in ME3. Wish the Citadel conversation could've talked about it a little more.

It was inevitable that Samara would face a situation where she can't reconcile her strict dedication to the Code with her love of her family. With Morinth, it was different, because she held that Morinth needed to be stopped. Rila and Falere had killed no one.  I don't think Samara  "broke" her dedication to the Code.  Her solution was to remove the Justicar from a situation where the Code had something to say.

It's Samara the Justicar vs. Samara the Asari. That's good writing.

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 14 mars 2012 - 03:56 .