2338 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashira Shepard]

I think she accepted Falere's specific wording, rather than pick it apart.

I also think her whole "I will check on you, as a Justicar should" was a little funny, in a small way. I was sitting there like "Uh-huh, like you're not happy you have a legit reason to see your child now."

But again, how things are worded so they sound "correct" out loud.

[gearseffect]

I wonder if Samara broke the code with her attempt at suicide, I'm in the process of writing a fanfin that will explore the relationship of Samara and my Shepard, and try and fill in some holes from what happened after the Arrival DLC. Then change things up a bit at the unfolding of the Monastery.

@Premier Bromanov if all your favorite BSNers are leaving I maybe could be a new favorite of yours? I find I have the tendecy to be a bit crazy at times and OVERLY energetic, but people either love me or can't stand me, or think I'm whacky and it's infectious!! I don't plan on leaving just yet in fact I plan to be here for speculation and hell raising loud protesting with the handling of ME3! I am not going away I WILL HOLD THE LINE!
Sorry like I said energetic

[Premier Bromanov]

gearseffect wrote...

I wonder if Samara broke the code with her attempt at suicide, I'm in the process of writing a fanfin that will explore the relationship of Samara and my Shepard, and try and fill in some holes from what happened after the Arrival DLC. Then change things up a bit at the unfolding of the Monastery.

@Premier Bromanov if all your favorite BSNers are leaving I maybe could be a new favorite of yours? I find I have the tendecy to be a bit crazy at times and OVERLY energetic, but people either love me or can't stand me, or think I'm whacky and it's infectious!! I don't plan on leaving just yet in fact I plan to be here for speculation and hell raising loud protesting with the handling of ME3! I am not going away I WILL HOLD THE LINE!
Sorry like I said energetic

Maybe.  There's always room for more BSN friends.

The more I think about the Ardat-Yakshi Monastery mission, the less I like Samara's character treatment on that mission, and the less I like Samara's role as a whole in ME3.  To put it bluntly, I think it was uncharacteristic for Samara to consider suicide.  If the writers intended to make Samara appear to be a hypocrite, then they might have succeeded.  In choosing suicide over killing her last daughter, they show Samara inconsistently applying her execution of the Code.  It's only when Samara herself has to endure more emotional agony that she considers circumventing the Code.  She wouldn't have afforded the mother of another Ardat-Yakshi the same flexibility. 

Now I see what some people mean, when they say that Samara's behavior on the Ardat-Yakshi Monastery mission was suspicious.  It's not Samara.  It's someone who just happens to look like her.

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 16 mars 2012 - 11:19 .

[Premier Bromanov]

Responding to my own thoughts, above:

I'm not even sure anymore. Feels ambivalent. Even if a character is a hypocrite, it doesn't make the character a bad character, especially when giving consideration to the context of the action that allegedly makes the character a hypocrite.

I have to do more thinking about this.

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 16 mars 2012 - 11:34 .

[Premier Bromanov]

After careful consideration, I don't think it's hypocrisy, or a double-standard, given the context. Samara had been pushed to her absolute limit. A person can only take so much. Samara was tired of all of the killing and the suffering.  She was standing before a line she told herself she would not cross, and suicide was the only way she saw to prevent herself from crossing it.

Now, I wait to see what she will do as one of the last Justicars. She has been permanently changed, and I wonder how it will affect her observation of her duties as a Justicar, if at all.

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 16 mars 2012 - 06:21 .

[gearseffect]

I was rather touched by that whole scene of her attempting suicide. A person can only experience so much pain and suffering on a personal bases, and Samara experienced a sh!t ton of it.

I think that she finally had enough and broke. I felt that that scene created a perfect loop hole in her "Only the Code" way of life. On top of that it happened in front of her last child, and from everything I saw Samara was a very good mother, and loved her daughters very much.

I't giving me lots of stuff to work with for a fanfic and stuff BW should have exploited for Samara to be a romance option.
I just wanted to have the interrupt with a kiss, after stopping her, and maybe when she got done talking with Falere that whole line she had with Shep and taking his hand "Spend time with those you love"
It created the prefect trap for Shep to reply with "What if your the only one I love Samara? You've been strong for so long but now your starting to loose faith, Samara you don't have to be alone any more. We have a connection, stop fighting love Samara"

Oh all this is gonna be in my fan fic. I can't resist sharing some early teases of what I've got going in my early draft!

[Ashira Shepard]

I will be curious to see what you do with it, Gears.

I'm nearly done with the second chapter of my own fanfic. With Samara acting as the one sane, unmoving thing in an otherwise chaotic time.

[Premier Bromanov]

Gee. I definitely think more elements, especially romantic ones, should have been added to Samara's character in ME3, but I wouldn't personally approve of her abandoning Justicarship. Instead, I'd like to see how being pushed to her limit might affect the way she observes the Code. I don't mean her becoming the equivalent of a corrupt cop. I mean Samara being more...maneuverable of the Code, if that makes sense.

[Ashira Shepard]

Like even though the exact phrasing would have her oath only hold for the collectors, she could 'accept' phrasing that extends her oath to fighting the Reapers alongside Shepard?

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 16 mars 2012 - 10:38 .

[Premier Bromanov]

Yes, that works. Flamewielder originally came up with this idea, that there is flexibility even within an absolute system, and this flexibility exists with the individual Justicar.

I'd really like to know what Samara intends to do, now that she's stranded on Earth. I hope that, within her lifetime, she has the ability to see Falere again. The hope of seeing Falere again may keep Samara going, while the galaxy recovers from losing the relays and the Citadel (in my playthrough, at least).

[gearseffect]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

Gee. I definitely think more elements, especially romantic ones, should have been added to Samara's character in ME3, but I wouldn't personally approve of her abandoning Justicarship. Instead, I'd like to see how being pushed to her limit might affect the way she observes the Code. I don't mean her becoming the equivalent of a corrupt cop. I mean Samara being more...maneuverable of the Code, if that makes sense.

That makes sense! Maybe she don't see things as black and white so much after the incadent? The Code is not all to life, and thre was a time when she was a normal Asari mom.

Quistions for all ya Samara fans, what do ya think Samara did for a living before being a Justicar? Ya know other than what we learned about her younger years in ME2.
What do ya think her Bond-Mate did? We know that her bond mate was another Asari, and I've been trying to figure out what Samara's life was like before becoming a Justicar for my Fanfic.


I know she was a great mom, and she had a coffee mug with a picture of her and her kids that said "to the worlds greatest mom", she had a life time subsciption to Asari Fitness or something like that, aswell as a sculpture of her with her bond-mate, a home on Thessia. All this was learned in the info on the Shadow Broker computer, in the LotSB DLC!

[Ashira Shepard]

...the ending just makes every character's loose ends depressing. :/

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AshiraShepard wrote...

...the ending just makes every character's loose ends depressing. :/

Samara not being able to visit her daughter is just another thing that makes the whole ending so hollow.

Speaking of the ending. Would Samara approve or disapprove of the control ending?

[Ashira Shepard]

That's the one I took, with the intent that Shepard could make the Reapers rebuild the relays and the galaxy as a whole could recover faster because of it.

As for Samara...I am not sure, since none of the endings are moral choices, they're just...choices, which makes them far more difficult to pick to be honest. If it's a moral choice, that's easier in most cases but if it's just a sadistic choice it's harder to figure out what other people would think.

I would be leaning towards approve because the Destroy option betrays both EDI and the Geth, invalidating the sacrifice Legion made - your synthetic allies fighting for your organic existence when they could join the Reapers instead of being obliterated.

I don't even know what she would think of the Synthesis ending...

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AshiraShepard wrote...

That's the one I took, with the intent that Shepard could make the Reapers rebuild the relays and the galaxy as a whole could recover faster because of it.

As for Samara...I am not sure, since none of the endings are moral choices, they're just...choices, which makes them far more difficult to pick to be honest. If it's a moral choice, that's easier in most cases but if it's just a sadistic choice it's harder to figure out what other people would think.

I would be leaning towards approve because the Destroy option betrays both EDI and the Geth, invalidating the sacrifice Legion made - your synthetic allies fighting for your organic existence when they could join the Reapers instead of being obliterated.

I don't even know what she would think of the Synthesis ending...

I wonder if it is a better question to ask which choice she disapprove of least. All of them has something unethical about them. The control ending has Shepard granting himself the power to decide the fate of everyone, being able to wipe out all life he if so chooses. An ammount of power no one deserves.

[Premier Bromanov]

What is it that Samara says? "The expeditious path is not necessarily the just one"?

[Maria Caliban]

Lizardviking wrote...

AshiraShepard wrote...

...the ending just makes every character's loose ends depressing. :/

Samara not being able to visit her daughter is just another thing that makes the whole ending so hollow.

Speaking of the ending. Would Samara approve or disapprove of the control ending?

Her code trends heavily toward killing the wicked. After what the Reapers did, I can't see it allowing anything but the destroy ending.

AshiraShepard wrote...

I think it'd match how strict and severe the code appears to be if in the event that a Justicar cannot separate the demands of the Code and her emotions, she can do only one thing - remove the Code, I.E herself, from the situation.

Exactly.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 17 mars 2012 - 12:02 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

AshiraShepard wrote...

...the ending just makes every character's loose ends depressing. :/

Samara not being able to visit her daughter is just another thing that makes the whole ending so hollow.

Speaking of the ending. Would Samara approve or disapprove of the control ending?

Her code trends heavily toward killing the wicked. After what the Reapers did, I can't see it allowing anything but the destroy ending.

But destroying the Reapers in this case means sacrificing the Geth and EDI, both which are innocents in this case. Something we know Samara is also opposed to.

[Maria Caliban]

Does the code consider AIs people?

Does anyone remember if she comments on the Geth heretic problem in ME 2?

[Premier Bromanov]

Technically, I think the Code only applies to asari in asari space, which is a Justicar's formal jurisdiction. It applies to non-asari only incidentally, when they are accessories to crimes.

[Ashira Shepard]

If you take her along to Legion's loyalty mission and you're deciding the heretics fate she says something along the lines of:

"If you change how someone is, how they think, you have killed them. They will be something new in the same body."

Considering that both EDI and the Geth (assuming you let them upgrade) act as individuals now, as Legion did when he referred to himself as "I" for the first and last time (manly tears) I suspect the Code would then consider them innocent people. The betrayal of them in the destroy ending would be unjust.

[Premier Bromanov]

lightsnow13 wrote...

I just have to say..she's my favorite character and when she was talking about how her daughter still remains, my first thought was "Oh no..she's going to kill her daughter?!" Then she states suicide and I'm like "No! NO!" So I paragon interrupted her.

I was legitimately worried about her - scared the poo out of me. She's the one character I want living no matter what.

That is a common reaction 'round these parts.  There seems to be a general lack of social enthusiasm for Samara, until she puts a gun to her own head.  Dunno what that indicates   But yes, Samara is a great character, and a great friend, as long as you don't cross her!

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 17 mars 2012 - 02:06 .

[Ashira Shepard]

"Implications unpleasant." Mordin

Anyway.

It could be just because for once she flinched in the face of what her Code demanded of her that made people take notice.

[Premier Bromanov]

ME3 Datapad message from Samara:  "I will enjoy fighting the Reapers.  I tire of duties that test my resolve and not my courage."

That's definitely Samara.