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[gearseffect]

AshiraShepard wrote...

Though I doubt you would find her lying down somewhere with one hell of hangover.

Pretty sure we discussed what Samara would be like on pot in the last thread. 

*ahem* Might've been interesting to take her along on the Thessia mission. Specifically I'm wondering what her outward reaction to it would be and then internal reaction if spoken to about it on the ship.

What Samara on Pot? Is that were the picture with Samara that had said something like "Stoned: Saving the Uninverse can wait dude!!" came from?

[Premier Bromanov]

Deceived him? Don't know why you'd assume that. Sounds like a mistake in the writing. I don't think she'd deceive Shepard in any circumstance.

EDIT: Hell, the Codex is an in-universe resource.  As in, it's written from the perspective of a person living in the ME setting.  All Shepard would have to do is look up "Ardat-Yakshi" to see that Samara was deceiving him.  I don't see what Samara would stand to gain from deceiving Shepard.  Like I said, I think there was a mistake in the writing.

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 21 mars 2012 - 08:51 .

[CrutchCricket]

gearseffect wrote...

On the subject on Ardat-Yakshi living outside of seclusion, In ME3 at the hospital there is an Asari Commando with PTSD talking to an Asari shrink about what she had seen and all that.

If you keep going back to listen to her story the Asari Commando I'm refer to as AsariCom1?
Anyway AsariCom1 tells how there was another Asari in her unit . AsariCom1 had wanted to be more than friends with this Asari but this Asari turned AsariCom1 down due to "She had a medical condition that made it... well impossible" It gives ya a pretty clear idea that AsariCom1's friend was an Ardat-Yakshi who had been allowed to live outside the Monastery and serve in a Unit of Commando's oh yeah and the unit was working on liberating a human colony.

Speculation. Being an ardat-yakshi may not be the only reason asari can't be intimate, just like AIDS isn't the only STD for humans. (maybe she had space AIDS, yeah I went there).

Another explanation may be that she self-diagnosed, or mananged to find out she's ardat-yakshi on the down-low but never declared her condition. So she keeps herself in check but doesn't have to be secluded for the rest of her life.

[gearseffect]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

Deceived him? Don't know why you'd assume that. Sounds like a mistake in the writing. I don't think she'd deceive Shepard in any circumstance.

EDIT: Hell, the Codex is an in-universe resource.  As in, it's written from the perspective of a person living in the ME setting.  All Shepard would have to do is look up "Ardat-Yakshi" to see that Samara was deceiving him.  I don't see what Samara would stand to gain from deceiving Shepard.  Like I said, I think there was a mistake in the writing.

I don't think Samara would decive Shepard to gain anything. I think she may have hidden the truth so she could try and protect her daughters and their home at the Monastery. 

The Monistery is clearly kept secret and only a few of the Asari leaders know about it. Yet it apears many Justicar's come there and bring Ardat-Yakshi to live there.

My source on that was there had been a few notes hidden in the Monistery that hinted to the Justicar thing.

About the Justicar thing and their numbers and all that, maybe it has something to do with the Temple of the Justicar Order is also a hidden place or something?

IF Samara decived Shep it would be to protect some people or something,.

I do think that the Code is probally got a few BIG RULES that have to be fallowed and everything else in up to the indavidual. That's how it covers every situation one can encounter.

[gearseffect]

CrutchCricket wrote...

gearseffect wrote...

On the subject on Ardat-Yakshi living outside of seclusion, In ME3 at the hospital there is an Asari Commando with PTSD talking to an Asari shrink about what she had seen and all that.

If you keep going back to listen to her story the Asari Commando I'm refer to as AsariCom1?
Anyway AsariCom1 tells how there was another Asari in her unit . AsariCom1 had wanted to be more than friends with this Asari but this Asari turned AsariCom1 down due to "She had a medical condition that made it... well impossible" It gives ya a pretty clear idea that AsariCom1's friend was an Ardat-Yakshi who had been allowed to live outside the Monastery and serve in a Unit of Commando's oh yeah and the unit was working on liberating a human colony.

Speculation. Being an ardat-yakshi may not be the only reason asari can't be intimate, just like AIDS isn't the only STD for humans. (maybe she had space AIDS, yeah I went there).

Another explanation may be that she self-diagnosed, or mananged to find out she's ardat-yakshi on the down-low but never declared her condition. So she keeps herself in check but doesn't have to be secluded for the rest of her life.

Umm it seemed pretty clear that she was an Ardat-Yakshi, as she had been trasformed into a Banshee which the PTSD Asari had said "The Reapers had been targeting asari with that rare condition and had managed to turn her into one of those screaching things" or some thing along those lines.

[Premier Bromanov]

gearseffect wrote...

I don't think Samara would decive Shepard to gain anything. I think she may have hidden the truth so she could try and protect her daughters and their home at the Monastery. 

The Monistery is clearly kept secret and only a few of the Asari leaders know about it. Yet it apears many Justicar's come there and bring Ardat-Yakshi to live there.

My source on that was there had been a few notes hidden in the Monistery that hinted to the Justicar thing.

About the Justicar thing and their numbers and all that, maybe it has something to do with the Temple of the Justicar Order is also a hidden place or something?

IF Samara decived Shep it would be to protect some people or something,.

I do think that the Code is probally got a few BIG RULES that have to be fallowed and everything else in up to the indavidual. That's how it covers every situation one can encounter.

The Codex issue still remains.  Samara isn't the only source of information about the Ardat-Yakshi and the monasteries.  Why would she hide information about her daughters from Shepard?  Does she expect for him to go on a witch-hunt?  No, she already entrusted him with enough information that this inconsistency seems like a mistake of writing.

[CrutchCricket]

gearseffect wrote...

Umm it seemed pretty clear that she was an Ardat-Yakshi, as she had been trasformed into a Banshee which the PTSD Asari had said "The Reapers had been targeting asari with that rare condition and had managed to turn her into one of those screaching things" or some thing along those lines.

Are you suggesting all Banshees are ardat-yakshis? Because there's a hell of a lot of Banshees and I don't think there were that many ardat-yakshis at that monastary. Maybe they were the first to be turned but they weren't the only ones.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 21 mars 2012 - 09:29 .

[Premier Bromanov]

CrutchCricket wrote...

gearseffect wrote...

Umm it seemed pretty clear that she was an Ardat-Yakshi, as she had been trasformed into a Banshee which the PTSD Asari had said "The Reapers had been targeting asari with that rare condition and had managed to turn her into one of those screaching things" or some thing along those lines.

Are you suggesting all Banshees are ardat-yakshis? Because there's a hell of a lot of Banshees and I don't think there were that many ardat-yakshis at that monastary. Maybe they were the first to be turned but they weren't the only ones.

I think the Reapers Husk-ify asari, or Ardat-Yakshi, and transport them like they do all their soldiers.  It's why you have cannibals, Husk-ified batarians, on Thessia, and so on.

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 21 mars 2012 - 09:35 .

[gearseffect]

 Well the Ardat-Yakshi thing and Samara saying what she said to Shepard,  can be blamed on writers choosing not to change lines for certain types of Shepards. Some "Shepards" kill everything they can. So those Shepard's Samara may try and keep that information from. The writers didn't want to change all sorts of lines all sorts of types of Shepard just some of the more crucial lines. (except in ME3 than they felt it would be ok for Turrians to see Shepard on their Moon and not get mad at him like the ones on the Citadel in ME2 if Shep let the council die)

I'm just trying to speculate as to why Samara would in way deceive a Paragon Shepard.
I'm just trying to fill in why she would say that to a Paragon Shep. EDI was always listening and they had been on a Cerberus vessel at the time, EDI had yet to be unshackled too.

Given the Illusive Man's reputation for odd experiments on humans and using aliens in them maybe she didn't want that sort of information in the wrong hands?

I know there are other ways people could obtain that same Information if someone wanted it. I'm just merely attempting to speculate as to why Samara would say that to Shepard. I've only got a few reasons and all of them have to do with "Knowledge is Power" and not wanting to have it known to certain parties.


No I'm not suggesting that all Banshees are Ardat-Yakshi I'm just saying that from the info known it seems highly likely that the Asari was an Ardat-Yakshi.

Sure she could have had "Space AIDS" or something I'm just going off the info presented and what facts and info is involved to come to my conclusion. That's something that had been great about ME, it had been a huge universe and allowed us to come to our own conclusions. If you want it explore other ideas like "Space AIDS" feel free too. neither of us is wrong or right.

I don't mean the "Space AIDS" as an insult, I'm just using the alternative you provided me with. So please don't take it that way.

With all the facts and info I've got it for me it seems likely that she had been an Ardat-Yakshi.

There had been another note in the Monastery that had suggested that the Monastery had been sort of a rehabilitation sort of thing. They seemed to allow the Ardat-Yakshi that showed potential of successful reintroduction to society, to go on visits to Thessia and what not.

The Codex also seemed to hint at such a thing too. Saying some Ardat-Yakshi had been employed in various lines of work. Some had been in the field of some sort of ending extreme abusive relationships or something Most all seemed to be jobs with the Asari Government in some form or another.

Modifié par gearseffect, 21 mars 2012 - 10:28 .

[Premier Bromanov]

For the sake of argument, if we accept that Samara lied to a Paragon Shepard, we can reason that it wasn't done for a nefarious purpose. A desperate mother lying to someone to protect her children? That's not exactly unforgivable, considering the context.

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 21 mars 2012 - 10:44 .

[Premier Bromanov]

I can't find any video evidence of the hand-holding scene between Shepard and Samara. Kind of bums me out.

[Ashira Shepard]

I would record the scene with fraps but I'm not sure my laptop will stand up to that considering the framerate is already around 15 when playing on average.

[gearseffect]

I'd help ya out but I got a 360 and no video camera that's worth a sh!t at recording my TV.

[CrutchCricket]

gearseffect wrote...
No I'm not suggesting that all Banshees are Ardat-Yakshi I'm just saying that from the info known it seems highly likely that the Asari was an Ardat-Yakshi.

Sure she could have had "Space AIDS" or something I'm just going off the info presented and what facts and info is involved to come to my conclusion. That's something that had been great about ME, it had been a huge universe and allowed us to come to our own conclusions. If you want it explore other ideas like "Space AIDS" feel free too. neither of us is wrong or right.

I don't mean the "Space AIDS" as an insult, I'm just using the alternative you provided me with. So please don't take it that way.

With all the facts and info I've got it for me it seems likely that she had been an Ardat-Yakshi.

There had been another note in the Monastery that had suggested that the Monastery had been sort of a rehabilitation sort of thing. They seemed to allow the Ardat-Yakshi that showed potential of successful reintroduction to society, to go on visits to Thessia and what not.

The Codex also seemed to hint at such a thing too. Saying some Ardat-Yakshi had been employed in various lines of work. Some had been in the field of some sort of ending extreme abusive relationships or something Most all seemed to be jobs with the Asari Government in some form or another.

And I'm just saying it's not as likely as you think. Obviously I can't outright disprove it. But I can point out the things that go against the theory.

First off there are no "degrees of ardat-yakshi" (though there may be 6 degrees of... you know:P). You're either an ardat-yakshi or you're not. Now if you are you will kill people if you mate with them. Again no uncertainty here.

So if are one,  two things come into play that warrant seclusion. One is the social stigma (ardat-yakshi are an embarassment). Now you might say that can be avoided if they stick to asari space (or an asari only planet). But even on Thessia there are likely alien visitors, immigrants and the like, any of which can have regular contact with others offworld. So it's by no means airtight. And of course that's not taking into account local shame by the asari themselves. For all we know there may be Fantastic Racism (used in the trope sense) among asari civilians towards ardat-yakshi. In fact, scratch that, there is. Think about it. An ardat-yakshi is a disabled person crossed with a vampire. Take all the prejudices against both. So really seclusion isn't just about protecting people from the ardat-yakshi. It's also protecting the ardat-yakshi from people. And not declaring your condition may not be an option either. Stuff like this also goes back to mutants in X-Men and even the Marvel Civil War, with issues like registration and regulation. But of course in the case of the asari they can't do all that because that would be publicizing the very thing they're trying to keep quiet.

The second thing is of course preventing another Morinth, an ardat-yakshi serial killer. And yes they're not all like Morinth. But think about living with all that in regular asari society. You can't ever mate, there's all this prejudice and fear for your kind, and temptation is probably around every corner (think of how sex driven our society is and also how much sex appeal asari have as a species). Any ardat-yakshi living in the middle of all that is likely to either snap or fall to temptation. And they only need to kill once to go down that path.

All of this is probabilities and deductions, not certainty. But even so, you have to ask why the asari would take those chances. The simplest and most efficient solution is seclusion. So for these reasons there are likely no ardat-yakshi integrated in asari society and no provision or allowance for such a situation.

And finally the clearest proof, Samara would not have to kill her daughter or commit suicide if there was any way for her to live away from the monastery. But there isn't. The Code won't allow it and I doubt the asari government would sanction a program that specifically puts any asari at risk of getting legally gunned down.

To your other points: visits are not the same thing as full time integration and the Codex is pretty much the ME universe wikipedia and as such shouldn't be taken as set in stone.

[kevinywong]

Was playing through an import where I'd had Jack maintain the barrier in Me2 and was really pleasantly surprised to hear her make reference to it during Grissom Academy.

Does Samara have a similar dialogue if you had her maintain the barrier?

[Ashira Shepard]

Huh...

Not that I'm aware of because she always held the barrier in every play through for me and I don't recall her mentioning it.

[Premier Bromanov]

kevinywong wrote...

Was playing through an import where I'd had Jack maintain the barrier in Me2 and was really pleasantly surprised to hear her make reference to it during Grissom Academy.

Does Samara have a similar dialogue if you had her maintain the barrier?

Don't think so.  She held the barrier in my playthrough, and she didn't mention it.  The Ardat-Yakshi Monastery mission hurries you right along, so there's no time to "inspect" Samara like you can with Jack during the Grissom Academy mission.  The conversation on the Citadel has no investigate conversation options.  The holo-conversation is very straightforward.  So, I don't think Samara even has the opportunity to mention it.

[CrutchCricket]

Indeed. Was rather disappointed there was so little opportunity to talk with Samara. But then that was the rule for ME2 squadmates not the exception.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 22 mars 2012 - 05:05 .

[Ashira Shepard]

I've come to realize why I always stuck to one-shots with my writings of Shepard/Samara in ME2.

Relationship!Samara I find stupidly difficult to write in a drawn out setting.

I mean I can write it, it's just that little voice that asks on loop "does it sound right? Does it sound right?" is about ten times louder.

[Premier Bromanov]

AshiraShepard wrote...

I've come to realize why I always stuck to one-shots with my writings of Shepard/Samara in ME2.

Relationship!Samara I find stupidly difficult to write in a drawn out setting.

I mean I can write it, it's just that little voice that asks on loop "does it sound right? Does it sound right?" is about ten times louder.

I wonder if it was exhausting for the writers to write Samara.

[Ashira Shepard]

I would not blame them if it was.

[Porenferser]

I was so freaking sad that I couldn't have a real romance with my favorite ME-woman:pinched:
Well, so shall it be, forever alone:crying:
If I can't have Samara, I don't wanna have anyone else:bandit:

[Premier Bromanov]

Porenferser wrote...

I was so freaking sad that I couldn't have a real romance with my favorite ME-woman:pinched:
Well, so shall it be, forever alone:crying:
If I can't have Samara, I don't wanna have anyone else:bandit:

Welcome to the Samaratan club.  Did you at least get Samara to take your Shepard's hand, or did it not trigger for you?

[Obvakhi]

I don't know if this has been asked already, but did Samara ever wear her black loyalty outfit in ME3? Or was that just only in the trailer?

[Obvakhi]

I don't know if this has been asked already, but did Samara ever wear her black loyalty outfit in ME3? Or was that just only in the trailer?