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[HSHAW]

(EG: If Orlais invaded Ferelden) Would the Grey Wardens in Ferelden have to join in the defense of Ferelden since they control a significant portion of it or would they have to stay neutral?

Modifié par HSHAW, 16 juin 2011 - 05:38 .

[Dave of Canada]

Generally, the First Warden would probably order them to not involve themselves. Though the Arling of Amaranthine is vital enough that it can't be ignored too long by Orlais, I'm sure the Grey Wardens could involve themselves if their people or caravans were to be attacked first.

[ObserverStatus]

They would probably stay neutral officially, but that wouldn't stop all of them from abandoning their duties as wardens and joining the army.

[TEWR]

I'd imagine the Warden Commander would aid Ferelden should the Orlesians do something that harmed the citizens of the arling. He/She is the Arl, and his/her duty is to protect the people there.


They would probably remain neutral until something happened that forced their hand.

[dragonflight288]

I think Amaranthine is far too important a port city to Ferelden to NOT get involved. In DA2 Act 1, the suspicious lady has us investigate and kill people at the docks at night. Turns out someone really high up in Kirkwall wants to sink all Amaranthine ships because they are becoming a trading power on the sea routes.

If Orlais invaded, Amaranthine would be a target. The Warden-Commander is the acting arl and would be obligated to defend the people there.

[IanPolaris]

As Acting Arl of Amaranthine, The Warden Commander of Fereldan would be legally required to aid Fereldan against any Orlesian invasion. However, that only applies to the Warden Commander and those wardens and men-at-arms specifically under his (or her) command. (This is what Feudalism means.)

-Polaris

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I would figure that The Grey Wardens would be required to stay neutral unless when their own interests (regarding their ability to fight darkspawn) are threatened. If the Orleasians were determined to take the Arling from them, then they would be obligated to defend it from Orlais unless they would let them keep it.

[HSHAW]

Now for another question, how many of the arling's forces would rebel and go fight anyway if the Orlesians(or someone else) invaded and the Wardens stayed neutral?

Modifié par HSHAW, 16 juin 2011 - 07:03 .

[IanPolaris]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I would figure that The Grey Wardens would be required to stay neutral unless when their own interests (regarding their ability to fight darkspawn) are threatened. If the Orleasians were determined to take the Arling from them, then they would be obligated to defend it from Orlais unless they would let them keep it.

Normally yes, but the Warden Commander of Ferledan is also a Liege-Lord of Fereldan and thus is REQUIRED to aid the Crown in the event of an invasion.  When the First Warden gave the go-ahead, he was making Warden neutrality in Fereldan a dead-letter (and honestly it already was).

-Polaris

[sphinxess]

At first I thought this was pretty clear - Warden wears the Arl hat for the war and maybe appoints someone to command the wardens but then I got to thinking - what do they do when their supplies are disrupted because of a war? Leave the country for another Warden outpost in the free marches?

[senior caliente]

Hawke being the viscount of kirkwall?
And the Warden being arl of Amaranthine

Team up vs Orlais ^^ would be kick ass

[senior caliente]

Who would win btw?

[ddv.rsa]

Hanz54321 wrote...

senior caliente wrote...

Who would win btw?

Orlais vs Fereldan?

Fereldan would win by attrition.  It's hard country and difficult to get at by way if the Frostbacks.  The only reason the Orlesians took Fereldan the first time is Fereldan was not really united.  If the Bannorn all united under King Alistair they'd be able to repel an invasion indefinitely.

Ferelden has no hope of holding any cities against Orlais, not even Denerim. They could certainly wage a guerilla campaign indefinitely but they'd quickly lose the conventional war. The Frostbacks aren't really a problem since Orlais is also a naval power and can transport men and supplies by sea.

Ferelden only won independence in the first place because A) Emperor Florian refused to send any more reinforcements and Loghain and Maric were protected by plot armour.

Modifié par ddv.rsa, 16 juin 2011 - 08:59 .

[ddv.rsa]

I'm looking at the map now. One could easily sail from Val Royeaux or Val Chevin to Amaranthine or even Denerim.

Edit: Jader is even closer. The easiest thing to do would be to land troops at Amaranthine and capture it as a staging area. I don't see why Redcliffe can't be bypassed entirely. Perhaps it's the only land route into Ferelden, but who cares?

Modifié par ddv.rsa, 16 juin 2011 - 09:09 .

[IanPolaris]

ddv.rsa wrote...

I'm looking at the map now. One could easily sail from Val Royeaux or Val Chevin to Amaranthine or even Denerim.

Edit: Jader is even closer. The easiest thing to do would be to land troops at Amaranthine and capture it as a staging area. I don't see why Redcliffe can't be bypassed entirely. Perhaps it's the only land route into Ferelden, but who cares?

With Mideaval Technology?  Mwu-ha-ha-ha!

There is no way in HELL that Orlais can amphib enough men to be anything more than a minor nuisance to Fereldan.  No one has the advnaced landing technology needed to land and supply a large army well away from home base over hostile territory.  AT BEST, Orlais could try to seize a port, but the fact that the Wardens control Amaranthine would make this a very sticky proposition both militarily and diplomacially for Orlais.

Also even more than conventional land warfar, the defender advantage (esp with Medaeval technology) against an attacking force from sea is enormous.  So much so that if a force is discovered and engaged during debarkment, it's probably going to be destroyed even if the defenders have hugely numerically inferior armies.

Those cute amphib moves we dream up, really did not reflect warfare until WWII (and late WWII at that).

-Polaris

PS  Raids would be another matter of course.

[ddv.rsa]

Hanz54321 wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

I'm looking at the map now. One could easily sail from Val Royeaux or Val Chevin to Amaranthine or even Denerim.

Edit: Jader is even closer. The easiest thing to do would be to land troops at Amaranthine and capture it as a staging area. I don't see why Redcliffe can't be bypassed entirely. Perhaps it's the only land route into Ferelden, but who cares?

Amaranthine is now Warden territory.  They can't attack Amaranthine.

I still have not looked at a map - more later.

West Hill or Highever, then. They're actually closer. I'd be interested to know what you think once you've seen the map. Given the disparity in military power I'd say Ferelden's position is untenable, unless the bulk of the Orlesian army is tied up elsewhere.

[IanPolaris]

ddv.rsa wrote...

West Hill or Highever, then. They're actually closer. I'd be interested to know what you think once you've seen the map. Given the disparity in military power I'd say Ferelden's position is untenable, unless the bulk of the Orlesian army is tied up elsewhere.

Again, raids, sure.  Orlais with it's navy could do a lot of damage with raids.  Actual seaborne invasion?

Not a chance.  Trying to attack and take anything from the sea is HARD.....and before 1943 it was almost impossible to suceed with a seaborn attack that was activally opposed with any kind of defense.

-Polaris 

[ddv.rsa]

IanPolaris wrote...

With Mideaval Technology?  Mwu-ha-ha-ha!

There is no way in HELL that Orlais can amphib enough men to be anything more than a minor nuisance to Fereldan.  No one has the advnaced landing technology needed to land and supply a large army well away from home base over hostile territory.  AT BEST, Orlais could try to seize a port, but the fact that the Wardens control Amaranthine would make this a very sticky proposition both militarily and diplomacially for Orlais.

Also even more than conventional land warfar, the defender advantage (esp with Medaeval technology) against an attacking force from sea is enormous.  So much so that if a force is discovered and engaged during debarkment, it's probably going to be destroyed even if the defenders have hugely numerically inferior armies.

Those cute amphib moves we dream up, really did not reflect warfare until WWII (and late WWII at that).

-Polaris

PS  Raids would be another matter of course.

The Normans invaded England. In Thedas the Qunari came by sea. Also, the beaches wouldn't be defended like D-day. It would be a matter of landing, getting organised and then meeting the enemy.

[IanPolaris]

ddv.rsa wrote...

The Normans invaded England. In Thedas the Qunari came by sea. Also, the beaches wouldn't be defended like D-day. It would be a matter of landing, getting organised and then meeting the enemy.

The Normas were able to land unopposed because of allied/friendly english nobles AND because the English King was busy in the north defeating a Norse claiment to the throne. 

The Qunari were similiar AND have a decided tech advantage that Orlais will not have.  Also the Qunari had the initial advantage of suprise. 

Also the beaches wouldn't have to be miles and miles of barbed wire and the like.  Simply militia patrols with rapid-action reserves would be all that's needed.  Such defenses along with some strong key coastal garrisons won't stop raids of course, but they DO make it basically impossible to have an unopposed sea-born invasion.  The problem is logistics.  It takes too damn long, and it's too damn easy to detect the numbers of ships needed to land a force sizable enough to be a real threat.

Massive seaborn invasions under fire prior to 1942 or so is bunk.  Churchill tried it in 1916 (?) in the Darendells and it was a brutal disaster and that was against the Turks who had a third rate army (at best).

-Polaris

[Dragonella1]

Feralden’s the best chance is to make alliance with Navarra. Stronger Orlais is last (maybe after a Blight and Qunari) thing that Navarra wants, and they can hope to gain new territories if they force Orlais to fight on two fronts.

[IanPolaris]

Dragonella1 wrote...

Feralden’s the best chance is to make alliance with Navarra. Stronger Orlais is last (maybe after a Blight and Qunari) thing that Navarra wants, and they can hope to gain new territories if they force Orlais to fight on two fronts.

True, and I also think that Fereldan's amnest towards the Circle Mages is going to pay BIG dividends since the "Royal Fereldan Apostate Corps" is likely able to give the Fereldans tactical command, control, and intelligence that the Orlesians won't be able to match.  I also think that Orzammar will be at worst (assuming a King Bhelen) 'friendly neutral" towards Fereldan.

-Polaris