95 réponses à ce sujet

[ddv.rsa]

Using units of mages in battle would change warfare in Thedas drastically. I wonder what side the player will be on. Personally I'd like to help the "empire" slap down the "rebel alliance", but joining the latter will probably be compulsory.

[ddv.rsa]

Hanz54321 wrote...

The Qunari argument is apples and cannon balls. The Qunari are technologically an age ahead of everyone else and vastly superior physically. They could conqueer the world if they desired - but they'd kill too many and have no one left to convert. Ironically the Qun, which drives them to conquer, is the very thing that stops them from just taking Thedas.

As to the map and Ian's entry into the discussion:

Ian drives me nuts in general, but he has conveyed exactly what I was trying to find a way to say - invading hard territory like Fereldan by sea with Medieval tech . . . it's just not that easy.

As to the map - you changed your position on Denerim which is what I was going to say. No way they invade through Denerim. The Orlesian Navy would just sail past West Hills and Highever and no one would try to stop them or fortify the northern borders? No. They could attack at West Hill, but again - bottleneck. Trying to squeeze an army off of boats while seige weapons and a spread out military hold the mainland.

I just don't see it. And if the Orlesians could successfully land, I go back to my original argument - the territory is too harsh and their losses would have been to great to keep going. They would be faced with another situation where the leadership at home would stop sending reinforcements because it's too costly and empties the Orlesian home defenses.

Fine, sea invasion's a no go.

[IanPolaris]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Using units of mages in battle would change warfare in Thedas drastically. I wonder what side the player will be on. Personally I'd like to help the "empire" slap down the "rebel alliance", but joining the latter will probably be compulsory.

No offense intended but you seem to be thinking like a gamer.  Too many (war)gamers think in terms of firepower and not enough on C3I and Logistics.  You don't need to see a single mage in combat for Fereldan's Apostate Friendly Stance to pay huge dividends in logistics and communications alone.  The battle magic is almost gravy.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Fine, sea invasion's a no go.

Not necesasarily, but it wouldn't and couldn't be the primary axis of threat and both sides would know it.  However all those Fereldans guarding the coast aren't facing the main army.....which is one big reason you do raids.

-Polaris

[ddv.rsa]

IanPolaris wrote...
No offense intended but you seem to be thinking like a gamer.  Too many (war)gamers think in terms of firepower and not enough on C3I and Logistics.  You don't need to see a single mage in combat for Fereldan's Apostate Friendly Stance to pay huge dividends in logistics and communications alone.  The battle magic is almost gravy.

-Polaris

I'll admit I think of mages in combat primarily as artillery. But I do see their uses in healing, signals, etc. Healing in particular could be very helpful in a war of attrition.

[Dragonella1]

Shape shifters could be excellent scouts, even if you know such ability exists it would drive you mad to see every bird flying by as potential spy.

[ddv.rsa]

Dragonella1 wrote...

Shape shifters could be excellent scouts, even if you know such ability exists it would drive you mad to see every bird flying by as potential spy.

Shape shifting magic is not known to the Circle, so the rebels won't know it either.

[HSHAW]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Dragonella1 wrote...

Shape shifters could be excellent scouts, even if you know such ability exists it would drive you mad to see every bird flying by as potential spy.

Shape shifting magic is not known to the Circle, so the rebels won't know it either.

*Goes and makes Finn in Witch Hunt a Shapeshifter just to subvert your claim.*

[happy_daiz]

In some of my DAO playthroughs, I gave Wynne the shapeshifter specialization. She probably went back to the Circle and taught all of her buddies.

I didn't even read the posts in this thread; just the last one. Sorry. I admit my laziness.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 16 juin 2011 - 02:38 .

[sphinxess]

happy_daiz wrote...

In some of my DAO playthroughs, I gave Wynne the shapeshifter specialization. She probably went back to the Circle and taught all of her buddies.

I didn't even read the posts in this thread; just the last one. Sorry. I admit my laziness.

I'm truly not sure if Wynn would be willing to become a shapeshifter other than as a game mechanic. You can also make her a blood mage but most RP conditions it seems she would rather die than touch Blood Magic. Finn - I dont' have the DLC. Where did he learn it or was it another automatic game mechanic choice?

Modifié par sphinxess, 16 juin 2011 - 04:08 .

[ddv.rsa]

Hanz54321 wrote...
And if the Orlesians could successfully land, I go back to my original argument - the territory is too harsh and their losses would have been to great to keep going. They would be faced with another situation where the leadership at home would stop sending reinforcements because it's too costly and empties the Orlesian home defenses.

So just to clarify, are you saying Ferelden cannot be defeated?

[ddv.rsa]

sphinxess wrote...

I'm truly not sure if Wynn would be willing to become a shapeshifter other than as a game mechanic. You can also make her a blood mage but most RP conditions it seems she would rather die than touch Blood Magic.

Not everyone makes a distinction between game mechanics and the story.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Orlesians should probably try and avoid land a sea based invasion within sight of a major Fereldan city..
They could lan their forces and make a beach head at a beach removed from major Fereldan hubs, the question is though: Would that be cost effective. Does the Orlesian stand to gain more for their efforts in a sea based invasion, than if they were to simply march over the Frostbacks.
The answer would be no.
That said, if Orlais really wanted it, they could wipe the floor with Ferelden. However, Orlais is prevented in going all-out, because Nevarra is pressing them from the Northeast. So if Ferelden can hold out long enough for the Orlesians to consider it a phyrric victory, they may stand a snowball's chance in hell.

[ddv.rsa]

Hanz54321 wrote...

Under the current circumstances in Thedas, Fereldan cannot be successfully invaded and held by Orlais at this point in the DA plotline.

Of course Fereldan can be defeated.  But not right now by Orlais if Orlais is the sole aggressor.

What if Ferelden's forces are divided? Some nobles (and indeed many commoners) might not be pleased with Alistair's stance on apostates. I can easily imagine an Orlesian sponsored faction choosing their Maker over their King.

[IanPolaris]

ddv.rsa wrote...

What if Ferelden's forces are divided? Some nobles (and indeed many commoners) might not be pleased with Alistair's stance on apostates. I can easily imagine an Orlesian sponsored faction choosing their Maker over their King.

Not seeing it.  The most pro-Orelsian noble (and the most respected) is Arl Eamon, and he is a staunch Alistair loyalist.  The Fereldans have recent, bitter, and first hand memories of the Orlesian occupation which was enthusiastically supported by the Chantry and Fereldans have a long memory.  As long as Alistair leaves the local faith alone (in the hands of local Reverend Mothers), Alistair can tell the Chantry to stick it and be pretty much assured of broad based support from both the nobility and commoners.  That's not to say that Fereldans love mages, but given the hypothetical fear of an Apostate to the KNOWN fear of Chantry Backed Hated Orelsian overlords, it's not hard to see which way the nobility will jump.

-Polaris

[EmperorSahlertz]

Orlais can easily defeat Ferelden in an all out slugfest. The point is, that Orlais can't hold Ferelden for the long term, unless they succesfully eradicate the Ferelden nobility, or make them join the Orlesians.

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Orlais can easily defeat Ferelden in an all out slugfest. The point is, that Orlais can't hold Ferelden for the long term, unless they succesfully eradicate the Ferelden nobility, or make them join the Orlesians.

Drop easily, and I might agree with you.  The problem is one of logistics and defensive advantage which the Fereldans would have in spades, and it's not like Nevarra would simply sit out if Orlais had to commit most of her forces to attack Fereldan (which she would).  Empress Celene I understands these inherent limitations but apparently the fruit and nut collection within elements of her military and nobility don't.

-Polaris

[EmperorSahlertz]

I was talking of the hypothetical idea of Orlais going all out on Ferelden. As it is, Nevarra is forcing Orlais to limit the amount of forces, they can allow themselves to send into Ferelden.

I think it is all a rather moot point though, since I believe that the mage war will probably have put a dampener on every nations' plans.

[ddv.rsa]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
I think it is all a rather moot point though, since I believe that the mage war will probably have put a dampener on every nations' plans.

Don't you think nations will take sides between the Templars and mages?

[ddv.rsa]

IanPolaris wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

What if Ferelden's forces are divided? Some nobles (and indeed many commoners) might not be pleased with Alistair's stance on apostates. I can easily imagine an Orlesian sponsored faction choosing their Maker over their King.

 As long as Alistair leaves the local faith alone (in the hands of local Reverend Mothers), Alistair can tell the Chantry to stick it and be pretty much assured of broad based support from both the nobility and commoners.

-Polaris

This presupposes the local Chantry would be content to support a heretic King. Remember that their loyalty is to the Divine and not the local ruler. During the Orlesian invasion the Ferelden Chantry acknowledged the new ruler and held no special loyalty to the Theirin dynasty. If Alistair sided with rebel mages against the Chantry do you think he could count on their continued support? They could actually turn a lot of people against the monarchy.

[EmperorSahlertz]

ddv.rsa wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
I think it is all a rather moot point though, since I believe that the mage war will probably have put a dampener on every nations' plans.

Don't you think nations will take sides between the Templars and mages?

The mage war seems like the kind of conflict that most nations would be glad to stay out of. If a nation is forced to pick a side, I am guessing they will mostly pick the Templars, simply because they know of the influence the Chantry holds, and the danger mages pose to their own power. But most countries would be happy to stay the hell out of the conflict, of that I am sure.

[MinotaurWarrior]

I think everything really comes down to your choices in DA:O

For my main playthrough, the Warden-Commander purposefully sabotaged human and chantry interests in Fereldan, allowing two cities to be destroyed. Obviously, with a coastal Arling in chaos, a sea invasion suddenly becomes far more plausible.

But say I had played a Cousland who became royalty, fortified my Arling as much as possible, and gave the dwarves golems. If I got the dwarves to support Fereldan, than we can pretty much forget about a land invasion from the west, fortify our coast, and be done with it.

Similarly, the Warden-Commander's position (if he or she even remains in the material world, let alone Fereldan) would likely determine how the Grey Wardens respond. Our Cousland was a noble before being forced to choose between death and the joining, and so he'd throw neutrality out the window. A Dwarven noble, on the other hand, probably couldn't care less about surfacer squabbles, and would try to keep his forces neutral. If my main character hadn't gone through the Eluvian, he'd probably try his best to get the two nations to smash oneanother to bits.

By the end of DA:A, your character is a huge force in Ferelden, and how he or she throws that force around really changes everything, so I don't think we can say for certain how an invasion would go down.