18 réponses à ce sujet

[Golden Owl]

What is Cerberus responsible for?...to clear up any mis-quotes, misunderstandings, etc.... I have written down word for word the references to Cerberus in ME1:

Upon finding Kahoku: "There are no signs of trauma on his corpse. The needle marks on his arm suggest a differnt means of execution".

Chasca: "A colonial pioneer team rarely consists of more than a few dozen specialists. The Cerberus Group has a lot to answer for".

Journal...UNC: Cerberus: "Cerberus has been conducting illegal genetic research in an effort to create an unstoppable Army. You have found Kahoku dead in one of their bases".

Journal...UNC: Hades Dogs: "You found a major Cerberus base and ended their sinister experiments in this cluster, avenging Kahoku's death and removing a danger that could have threatened the Galaxy".

Journal...UNC: Colony of the Dead: "According to logs, a visitor from an organization called Cerberus recently passed through the colony. It seems likely this person had something to do with the transformation of the colonists".

Found in the Exo Geni Head Quarters on Feros: "I don't trust this Cerberus group. They may pay us well, but if this gets out before we have developed an antidote....its just not smart. They won't tell us what they wanted them for or why they wanted them delivered to the Matano system. My records show nothing of interest out there".

I have not included Toombs, Akuze or the Rachni in the 'Styx Beta' cluster, because Cerberus involvment is very clear.

My question to the Forum users are:

1.) Do you believe Kahoku was experimented on, tortured or straight up execution?

2.) Were Cerberus responsible for the huskifying the Specialists on Chasca?

3.) To what extent do Cerberus share the brunt with Exo Geni in regards to the Thorian Creepers?

4.) What else do you see?

Modifié par Golden Owl, 16 juin 2011 - 02:01 .

[Golden Owl]

Bump.

[CaptainZaysh]

So where are you going with this? My answers to 1, 2 & 3 are "don't know, don't much care."

My ethical problem with Cerberus is that they don't answer to a government. My tactical problem with Cerberus is that everywhere I go they seem to be underfoot. The only other person linked to both Feros and Noveria is Saren, which implied to me they were connected. Not to mention their assassination of fellow marines and an Admiral - whoever these assholes are, they sure don't seem to be friends.

So, I'm not actually that interested in doing much more than harming them and removing them from my battlespace. Who cares if they tortured Kahoku or not? They've got to go.

[Golden Owl]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

So where are you going with this? My answers to 1, 2 & 3 are "don't know, don't much care."

My ethical problem with Cerberus is that they don't answer to a government. My tactical problem with Cerberus is that everywhere I go they seem to be underfoot. The only other person linked to both Feros and Noveria is Saren, which implied to me they were connected. Not to mention their assassination of fellow marines and an Admiral - whoever these assholes are, they sure don't seem to be friends.

So, I'm not actually that interested in doing much more than harming them and removing them from my battlespace. Who cares if they tortured Kahoku or not? They've got to go.

Where I'm going with this, yes, I guess it does seem a strange thread....It's due to a number of disagreements on the Forum in regards to Cerberus responsibilities....so to clear those disagreements up, I have sat through the game and copied the references word for word, giving the opportunity to base the debates on facts, not faulty memories....I also had said I would take the time to do this.

As a note, I want Cerberus dismantled and gone also and hope Shep can do so in ME3, for the same reasons you have cited.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 16 juin 2011 - 03:28 .

[CaptainZaysh]

Well, ME2 caused me to revise my position on that. Lesser of two evils and all that. As of the end of ME2, I'd want them around at least until the end of the war.

[Golden Owl]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Well, ME2 caused me to revise my position on that. Lesser of two evils and all that. As of the end of ME2, I'd want them around at least until the end of the war.

Yes, very true....Reapers come first, but Cerberus won't be forgotten.

[Dean_the_Young]

Golden Owl wrote...

1.) Do you believe Kahoku was experimented on, tortured or straight up execution?

More to straight-up executed, but only after some form of interrogation. Experiments not really supported.

2.) Were Cerberus responsible for the huskifying the Specialists on Chasca?

Too unclear to claim one way or another. It wouldn't be beyond Cerberus to do such a thing, but then it also wouldn't be beyond Exogeni to have done it, for for the colony to have been indoctrinated and do it to itself.

Since kidnapping people and huskifying them would be much better to keep it secret than to massacre a known colony and leaving the things around...

[Sebby]

For what it's worth, I believe Exogeni obtained those Dragon's Teeth from this incident: http://masseffect.wi...ing_Survey_Team

I didn't make the connection until after a few playthroughs.

[Asari Commando]

Golden Owl wrote...

My question to the Forum users are:

1.) Do you believe Kahoku was experimented on, tortured or straight up execution?

2.) Were Cerberus responsible for the huskifying the Specialists on Chasca?

3.) To what extent do Cerberus share the brunt with Exo Geni in regards to the Thorian Creepers?

4.) What else do you see?

•  most likely tortured for information, and when they realized he wont crack they started experimenting.
  
• yesh
  
•  100%
  
• an albino control freak with way too much money, my guess is that cerberus sells drugs of some sort.

meh, people give cerberus too much credit. after playing thru mass effect 1 it is 100% clear that cerberus = a radical human group, willing to do anything to further their power. maybe people just play the sequal so much that they forget all of the facts. they claim to be protectors of the human race, but they perform countless tests on innocent humans trying to implant biotics. weather TIM was involved in their decisions or not, i could care less. the facts remain the same, cerberus has very questionable motivs, and cannot be trusted.

 

Modifié par Asari Commando, 16 juin 2011 - 07:51 .

[Sebby]

Asari Commando wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

My question to the Forum users are:

1.) Do you believe Kahoku was experimented on, tortured or straight up execution?

2.) Were Cerberus responsible for the huskifying the Specialists on Chasca?

3.) To what extent do Cerberus share the brunt with Exo Geni in regards to the Thorian Creepers?

4.) What else do you see?

•  most likely tortured for information, and when they realized he wont crack they started experimenting.
  
• yesh
  
•  100%
  
• an albino control freak with way too much money, my guess is that cerberus sells drugs of some sort.

meh, people give cerberus too much credit. after playing thru mass effect 1 it is 100% clear that cerberus = a radical human group, willing to do anything to further their power. maybe people just play the sequal so much that they forget all of the facts. they claim to be protectors of the human race, but they perform countless tests on innocent humans trying to implant biotics. weather TIM was involved in their decisions or not, i could care less. the facts remain the same, cerberus has very questionable motivs, and cannot be trusted.

 

[*]
[*]Cerberus has done great work to advance human rights and interests.

[Onpoint17]

This is a bit off-topic but still related to Cerberus. In ME2 was it ever explained why Wilson tried to sabotage project Lazarus? Do we know who put him up to it? It's something I've always wondered.

[Dane Seagal]

Cerberus does unethical experiments (at least by current, earthly standards) and is extremist. They have good intentions; at least TIM does, as I'm currently reading through the Retribution book and he expresses a noble intent of advancing the human species, and even doubts his extreme methods. But there's definitely a xenophobic undertone to Cerberus.

I think the reason we got a relatively soft view of Cerberus (the crew doesn't really show extremism) in the second is because the crew Shepard is with is tailored for him. The really nasty stuff is done by other cells, whereas the Lazarus cell is the more idealistic or less extreme cell, which is more fit for Shepard, paragon or renegade. That explains why the really naive Kelly is on the team. The books and first game give no doubt as to the extremist side of Cerberus.

Zaeed also mentions he has killed dozens of Cerberus operatives (saying that TIM is apparently big on forgiveness), which to me indicates Cerberus is messing about on many planets, requiring a bounty hunter to take them out.

[Golden Owl]

Onpoint17 wrote...

This is a bit off-topic but still related to Cerberus. In ME2 was it ever explained why Wilson tried to sabotage project Lazarus? Do we know who put him up to it? It's something I've always wondered.

Shadow Broker put him up to it....Either I can't remember the reason or it wasn't made clear as to why.

[Golden Owl]

Seboist wrote...

For what it's worth, I believe Exogeni obtained those Dragon's Teeth from this incident: http://masseffect.wi...ing_Survey_Team

I didn't make the connection until after a few playthroughs.

I didn't make the connection until just now......thank you Seboist.

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

1.) Do you believe Kahoku was experimented on, tortured or straight up execution?

I believe he was executed. I imagine Cerberus probably tried to convince him to join them. Otherwise they'd have just assassinated. Kahoku was a popular officer and I'll wager a lot of Cerberus people had respect for him.

2.) Were Cerberus responsible for the huskifying the Specialists on Chasca?

No. It is evident that the huskification of the pioneer team was partially an accident. It is my theory that Exo-Geni was experimenting on its own colony there (as they did on Feros and Nodacrux) and that the Cerberus representative came by and purchased some husks and/or dragon's teeth for research of their own. Some time after that experiment got out of control (likely by the rest of the researchers becoming indoctrinated) and then Shepard arrived to find the colony overrun with husks.

3.) To what extent do Cerberus share the brunt with Exo Geni in regards to the Thorian Creepers?

Very little or none at all. Cerberus didn't find the Thorian and Cerberus didn't run any of the experiments. We don't even know if Cerberus created their own creepers or merely bought them from Exo-Geni. Not that I think Cerberus is incapable or unwilling to do any of these things, mind you.

4.) What else do you see?

What do you mean?

Question 4.)...Instead of just a list of questions, I just wanted to leave the doors open for anything else people wanted to add or expand upon, etc...

[Golden Owl]

Golden Owl wrote...

What is Cerberus responsible for?...to clear up any mis-quotes, misunderstandings, etc.... I have written down word for word the references to Cerberus in ME1:

Upon finding Kahoku: "There are no signs of trauma on his corpse. The needle marks on his arm suggest a different means of execution".

Chasca: "A colonial pioneer team rarely consists of more than a few dozen specialists. The Cerberus Group has a lot to answer for".

Journal...UNC: Cerberus: "Cerberus has been conducting illegal genetic research in an effort to create an unstoppable Army. You have found Kahoku dead in one of their bases".

Journal...UNC: Hades Dogs: "You found a major Cerberus base and ended their sinister experiments in this cluster, avenging Kahoku's death and removing a danger that could have threatened the Galaxy".

Journal...UNC: Colony of the Dead: "According to logs, a visitor from an organization called Cerberus recently passed through the colony. It seems likely this person had something to do with the transformation of the colonists".

Found in the Exo Geni Head Quarters on Feros: "I don't trust this Cerberus group. They may pay us well, but if this gets out before we have developed an antidote....its just not smart. They won't tell us what they wanted them for or why they wanted them delivered to the Matano system. My records show nothing of interest out there".

I have not included Toombs, Akuze or the Rachni in the 'Styx Beta' cluster, because Cerberus involvment is very clear.

My question to the Forum users are:

1.) Do you believe Kahoku was experimented on, tortured or straight up execution?

To me the use of the word 'marks' is what throws into question as to whether this was a simple execution, there isn't enough information for any real conclusion, though I do doubt it was as simple as execution, wouldn't that just require a single needle mark?

2.) Were Cerberus responsible for the huskifying the Specialists on Chasca?

I don't think enough information is really given to really given a strong case for 'Yahs' or 'Nahs'...I have high lighted the clear statements in regards to Cerberus activities, which in union with the Chasca log comment: "The Cerberus Group has a lot to answer for", does I think indicate strongly that they are more than willing and capable of doing such a thing and suggests they most likely did....But the logs do remain vague and inconclusive.

3.) To what extent do Cerberus share the brunt with Exo Geni in regards to the Thorian Creepers?

So Cerberus isn't exactly responsible for making the Thorian Creepers themselves, but Cerberus are supporting and encouraging what is being done...thus the payment for specimens.

4.) What else do you see?

[Mr. Gogeta34]

ME2 really added some shades of grey to what Cerberus was and how much Cerberus could truly take responsibility for.

In one of the missions, TIM sends you to a missle base to stop a missle from launching. You partially fail to do this and have to choose where the missle goes... either to a heavily populated area or to some other facility. If you chose to bomb the heavily populated area... who's to blame? Cerberus or Shepard?

Then you realise that this is how it goes for ALL Cerberus operations. TIM gives the general orders and broad objectives, sure, but the means and method have always been on the shoulders of the operators. He'll demand status updates and request results but he has no "true" control of what his teams do on the ground.

[Sebby]

Golden Owl wrote...

Seboist wrote...

For what it's worth, I believe Exogeni obtained those Dragon's Teeth from this incident: http://masseffect.wi...ing_Survey_Team

I didn't make the connection until after a few playthroughs.

I didn't make the connection until just now......thank you Seboist.

YW, for the longest time i was wondering "where the hell did Exogeni get Dragon's teeth?".