645 réponses à ce sujet

[Pasquale1234]

Deathwurm wrote...

One thing I'm noticing more is that in the world the francise has created, there is a lot more "gender neutrality" than in real life. There aren't any characters expressing wonder at "how good a Warrior she is for a woman" or "how sensitive a Healer he is for a man" and I think that story-convention helps set up a World where same sex relationships would not be seen as anything unusual.

I also think that is key.

The culture of Thedas as a whole -
- Is pretty much gender neutral.  We don't see a lot of sex role-playing.
- The major religious organization is matriarchal and does not condemn same-sex relationships.
- Marriage is often for purposes of procreation, inheritance, and maintaining bloodlines as much as it is a representation of a bond in a loving relationship.
- The brothels (Denerim's Pearl as well as Kirkwall's Blooming Rose) offer the services of either sex to potential customers of either sex.
- Offers no real clues about whether they even have a concept of sexual orientation (our modern western culture has only recognized such differences in attractions for the past couple hundred years or so)

Given that environment, it seems perfectly reasonable to me that most of Hawke's companions would be open to intimacy with a Hawke of either sex.  I'm not quite sure why anyone feels the need to slap orientation labels on these fictional characters.

nightscrawl wrote...
I'm quite curious to know how many of the "yeah let's go back to the restrictive romances from DAO" have played as the opposite gender specifically to romance a person they wouldn't be able to otherwise. If so, how did you feel about it?

I'm not in the camp that wants restricted romances, but I started a male playthrough for the express purpose of getting the "Witch Gone Wild" trophy, and abandoned it immediately after getting the trophy.

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 23 juin 2011 - 12:04 .

[hooptyfrood]

The game was gay.

[xkg]

hooptyfrood wrote...

The game was gay.

Hello there. How does it feel to be a fool?

[Huntress]

nightscrawl Wrote:
"I'm quite curious to know how many of the "yeah let's go back to the restrictive romances from DAO" have played as the opposite gender specifically to romance a person they wouldn't be able to otherwise. If so, how did you feel about it?"

I Have never romanced Morrigan!! do that explain why I don't mind DA2 aproach to li?
Origens forced me to play as a male.... well, not one likes to feel forced on doing something they don't like/want! am I wrong?

[Huntress]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Huntress wrote...

I Have never romanced Morrigan!! do that explain why I don't mind DA2 aproach to li?
Origens forced me to play as a male.... well, not one likes to feel forced on doing something they don't like/want! am I wrong?

I couldn't agree more. The romances in DAO wasn't as restrictive as much as annoying. I spent an entire playthrough playing a male Warden just so I could get with both Morrigan and Queen Anora. Though the latter is understandable. But the playthrough felt a bit like a chore more than anything.

But in DA2, I get to romance Merrill as any kind of Hawke I want and it makes me a very happy camper indeed. She is the adorablest person ever. I wouldn't have it any other way.

I made many males characters in DAO they never reached level2.. I was not connected to them, I knew I just need  to reach  Lothering give her 1000 toys and bed her, I just couldn't get out of the starting zone.. Thats what FORCED means you won't get anywere.
They said they felt "forced" but they don't mind forcing everyone also to play their style or the way they see the world tho.

Modifié par Huntress, 23 juin 2011 - 10:06 .

[Pasquale1234]

Huntress wrote...

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Huntress wrote...

I Have never romanced Morrigan!! do that explain why I don't mind DA2 aproach to li?
Origens forced me to play as a male.... well, not one likes to feel forced on doing something they don't like/want! am I wrong?

I couldn't agree more. The romances in DAO wasn't as restrictive as much as annoying. I spent an entire playthrough playing a male Warden just so I could get with both Morrigan and Queen Anora. Though the latter is understandable. But the playthrough felt a bit like a chore more than anything.

But in DA2, I get to romance Merrill as any kind of Hawke I want and it makes me a very happy camper indeed. She is the adorablest person ever. I wouldn't have it any other way.

I made many males characters in DAO they never reached level2.. I was not connected to them, I knew I just need  to reach  Lothering give her 1000 toys and bed her, I just couldn't get out of the starting zone.. Thats what FORCED means you won't get anywere.
They said they feel "forced" but they don't mind forcing everyone also to play their style or the way they see the world tho.

That sounds just like my experience.  I got through Lothering with a male Warden, chatted up Morrigan, showered her with gifts, got the trophy, and quit that playthrough.  I've heard that Morrigan can be a very interesting character to romance, but haven't had the desire to do an entire playthrough as a male, so...

[Addai]

axl99 wrote...

Huh. I was always under the impression that, fictional characters or no, people are attracted to each other because of who they are as individuals, not necessarily what gender they are.

No.  Please don't assume for other people.  I'm not attracted to women, doesn't matter how great a broad we're talking about.

I prefer the Origins system, but this was hardly the biggest fault of DA2.  As for "having to play a male Warden" to romance Morrigan, I enjoyed my runthrough with a male PC.  What's better than slaying a dragon for your lady love, donating your seed for her demonspawn, and then getting dumped?

[SafetyShattered]

It's not a big deal but I find it a tad bit unrealistic. I find it hard to believe that that many people are bi...but whatever to each his own.

[ademska]

Addai67 wrote...
I prefer the Origins system, but this was hardly the biggest fault of DA2.  As for "having to play a male Warden" to romance Morrigan, I enjoyed my runthrough with a male PC.  What's better than slaying a dragon for your lady love, donating your seed for her demonspawn, and then getting dumped?

bully for you. i don't want to play heterosexual, because i'm not heterosexual, and my wishes are just as valid as yours.

[whykikyouwhy]

Addai67 wrote...

axl99 wrote...

Huh. I was always under the impression that, fictional characters or no, people are attracted to each other because of who they are as individuals, not necessarily what gender they are.

No.  Please don't assume for other people.  I'm not attracted to women, doesn't matter how great a broad we're talking about.

I prefer the Origins system, but this was hardly the biggest fault of DA2.  As for "having to play a male Warden" to romance Morrigan, I enjoyed my runthrough with a male PC.  What's better than slaying a dragon for your lady love, donating your seed for her demonspawn, and then getting dumped?

I don't know that axl99 was making an assumption so much as sharing her personal impression. I'm not in any place, nor have any right, to speak for her, but that's how I read her statement.

I would love to slay a dragon for my lady love! Oh...wait...I'm a woman. And I played a female Warden. Who romanced Leliana.   So...here's to an archdemon skull hanging on the mantle of our happy little home in Denerim, and the sweet bliss of s/s romance.

[Pasquale1234]

Addai67 wrote...

axl99 wrote...

Huh. I was always under the impression that, fictional characters or no, people are attracted to each other because of who they are as individuals, not necessarily what gender they are.

No.  Please don't assume for other people.  I'm not attracted to women, doesn't matter how great a broad we're talking about.

I prefer the Origins system, but this was hardly the biggest fault of DA2.  As for "having to play a male Warden" to romance Morrigan, I enjoyed my runthrough with a male PC.  What's better than slaying a dragon for your lady love, donating your seed for her demonspawn, and then getting dumped?

And it's great that you were able to play the game in a way that best satisfies and suits you.

What I don't understand is the reason why you should be required to play as a male in order to participate in romance with Morrigan.  It adds nothing to the story or quality of the romance to make it unavailable to female wardens.

[Wulfram]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

And it's great that you were able to play the game in a way that best satisfies and suits you.

What I don't understand is the reason why you should be required to play as a male in order to participate in romance with Morrigan.  It adds nothing to the story or quality of the romance to make it unavailable to female wardens.

Female wardens can't sire an old god baby, which is what Morrigan is after.

[HanErlik]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

What I don't understand is the reason why you should be required to play as a male in order to participate in romance with Morrigan. 

There are straight women, even in Thedas. Sad but true...

[Pasquale1234]

HanErlik wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

What I don't understand is the reason why you should be required to play as a male in order to participate in romance with Morrigan. 

There are straight women, even in Thedas. Sad but true...

Nice that you chose only one sentence to respond to.

How does that add anything to the story or romance?

Wulfram wrote...
Female wardens can't sire an old god baby, which is what Morrigan is after.

So that whole scene would play out the same way - with the Warden trying to convince a male Warden to do the DR.

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 24 juin 2011 - 02:18 .

[Wulfram]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

I don't think that the Old God Baby is why she chose to enter a relationship with the male Warden. Otherwise, she ought to be a lot nicer to Alistair than she in the event that the Warden is female.

Dude!Warden is a handsome man and a woman has needs, you know.

Your Dude!Warden might be handsome...

I don't think the OGB is the only reason for the relationship, but it's part of it.  Certainly, starting a romantic relationship with a female warden would be, from Morrigan's point of view, needlessly complicating things.

[Maria13]

Addai67 wrote...

axl99 wrote...

Huh. I was always under the impression that, fictional characters or no, people are attracted to each other because of who they are as individuals, not necessarily what gender they are.

No.  Please don't assume for other people.  I'm not attracted to women, doesn't matter how great a broad we're talking about.

I prefer the Origins system, but this was hardly the biggest fault of DA2.  As for "having to play a male Warden" to romance Morrigan, I enjoyed my runthrough with a male PC.  What's better than slaying a dragon for your lady love, donating your seed for her demonspawn, and then getting dumped?

class act, old Morrie...

[Blansten]

HanErlik wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

What I don't understand is the reason why you should be required to play as a male in order to participate in romance with Morrigan. 

There are straight women, even in Thedas. Sad but true...

It is quite sad, but as that is the case could there not STILL be straight women in Thedas while allowing the player to have the choice to play their game the way they want? That is the one point I still have not had explained in a way that makes sense to me. What is so wrong about a game being flexible enough to allow all player to have the relationships they would like.

Modifié par Blansten, 24 juin 2011 - 03:11 .

[Addai]

ademska wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
I prefer the Origins system, but this was hardly the biggest fault of DA2.  As for "having to play a male Warden" to romance Morrigan, I enjoyed my runthrough with a male PC.  What's better than slaying a dragon for your lady love, donating your seed for her demonspawn, and then getting dumped?

bully for you. i don't want to play heterosexual, because i'm not heterosexual, and my wishes are just as valid as yours.

So you got what you wanted in DA2- none of the LIs are straight.  Why are you so crabby about it?

My initial response to the thread title was:  "There are no thoughts on this topic, only emotions."

[Addai]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

HanErlik wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

What I don't understand is the reason why you should be required to play as a male in order to participate in romance with Morrigan. 

There are straight women, even in Thedas. Sad but true...

Nice that you chose only one sentence to respond to.

How does that add anything to the story or romance?

For some people, it adds relatability and believability (when taken together with the party as a whole).

[hoorayforicecream]

Addai67 wrote...

So you got what you wanted in DA2- none of the LIs are straight.  Why are you so crabby about it?"

Because there are people who wish to take that away for little to no appreciable gain in the next game.

edit:

Addai67 wrote...
For some people, it adds relatability and believability (when taken together with the party as a whole).

Does it have to be a heterosexual romance to add relatability an believability? 

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 24 juin 2011 - 03:40 .

[Huntress]

Wulfram wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

And it's great that you were able to play the game in a way that best satisfies and suits you.

What I don't understand is the reason why you should be required to play as a male in order to participate in romance with Morrigan.  It adds nothing to the story or quality of the romance to make it unavailable to female wardens.

Female wardens can't sire an old god baby, which is what Morrigan is after.

Thats true and thats why Female wardens ask Alistair to do it, even if Alistair and the warden are Lovers...
As you can see whatever you try to come up with has a flat line ( DEAD)

[SurelyForth]

Morrigan (and, to a lesser extent, Alistair) is a complicated case, I think.

She has pretty much one purpose, which is to bang a man and get pregnant. She falls in love with the Warden despite knowing that she'll be using him later and leaving. While I find the idea of her falling in love with a woman and then needing to get her to ask Alistair/Loghain to do the ritual intriguing, I think its tenor would be so different from how the other DR conversations go. There would be frustration for the player, because at least as a male Warden, you can give your child to the woman that you love. If you don't participate it's because you don't want to do it.

As a woman, there would be no option to impregnate Morrigan. So instead of Morrigan going to her male lover and being like "lay with me and make a baby, and then I leave you forever!" it would be "hey, go ask your handsome friend that I hate to lay with me and make a baby, and then I'm going to leave you forever!"

I think that it's cutting close as it is with a female Warden (who can't conceive and who may or may not have been dumped because of this) who is also romancing Alistair to approach him for the DR, adding the angst of being in love with Morrigan and having to negotiate the ritual between her and a man would be almost cruel, I think.

As for Alistair, I can see why he's not a male LI. The game would have to address the idea of s/s relationships at the Landsmeet and actually take a stand on the issue (just how accepted are s/s relationships? what sort of stigma would be attached to Alistair were he to have a male lover?), which it seems not to want to do, either way.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 24 juin 2011 - 03:50 .