645 réponses à ce sujet

[Pasquale1234]

Anathemic wrote...
What kind of influence does culture have on the biological ratios of sexual orientations?

I'm not sure whether you are serious or trolling.

But I will say that people tend to repress (or at least hide) tendencies that bring about rejection, isolation, and sometimes lynchings.

[Anathemic]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

What kind of influence does culture have on the biological ratios of sexual orientations?

Culture clearly has an enormous impact on sexual behaviour.

Sure it does, but what about the biological factors? Obviously from what I've seen in the game there is still only one sex coupling (male/female) that can produce offspring naturally. Unless Thedas isn't governed by the natural laws, which I find hard to believe (even magic has it's own laws in the game).

[Anathemic]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Anathemic wrote...
What kind of influence does culture have on the biological ratios of sexual orientations?

I'm not sure whether you are serious or trolling.

But I will say that people tend to repress (or at least hide) tendencies that bring about rejection, isolation, and sometimes lynchings.

I'm totally serious, and I'm not sure what you are trying to convey in this post. Is this some kind of hyperbole in relation to sexual orientations or just random?

[PlumPaul93]

It fit most of the characters except anders I suppose. Although being able to romance over half the crew and the people who weren't romanceable: were a sibling, women you couldn't admit feelings for, and a dwarf was the main issue to me, not just the fact that they were all bisexual. It's annoying but if it makes sense I don't mind it too much.

[JPadinhaT]

Anders and Merrill sexuality depends on your character's gender. Isabella is obviously bisexual and if you are male Fenris is bisexual, since you can sleep with him and in Act III Fenris and Isabela will be friends with benefits, I think that's how it goes.

[Bejos_]

Anathemic wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Hey look it's this thread again. Well since everyone else is adding to the fire contributing to the discussion at hand, best I'll give my own thoughts into it.

Having all the LI's bisexual gives off the unrealistic vibe to me, short and simple. Realistically in our world you will have more people with one-way sexual orientations (homosexuals and heterosexuals) than people with two-way sexual orientations (bisexuals).

But one may argue, this isn't the real world, this is Thedas! Fantasy herp derp.

Yes yes I know. You won't believe how many times this argument as been thrown around in this topic. However to counter, I can name a good number of things in Thedas/Dragon Age unvierse that is based off in our world. Such as the religion of the Maker which is a pseudo-spinoff of Catholicism/Christianity (give or take, and no you can't deny this, Andraste is Jesus). Or the fact that the known countries of Thedas are heavily similar to those of Western Europe (Orlais = France, Ferelden = Great Britain, etc.).

Anyways the main point to counter the argument above is that, the Dragon Age universe/Thedas is heavily based upon our world's aspects. Would it be unreasonable to say that the ratios of sexual orientation are not the same if not similar to a degree? I think not.

Sure, this topic has come up again, and sure, people are jumping in to comment on it, because intelligent discourse can be a wonderful thing.

I am with the crowd that believes that the companions aren't clear-cut. As its been pointed out before, Hawke doesn't know their sexual leanings or desires prior to meeting them. And as its also been pointed out, Hawke doesn't have to go down any road to discover those things. So really, the LIs may not be bisexual. If you play out a game where you don't seek any of the romance options, you might not even know that the companions are having sex, save for a few sentences in some party banter.

And yes, there are RL parallels in Dragon Age. There are influences and homages. But that doesn't necessarily dictate that Thedas should be judged through the lens of the real world, especially when it comes to statistics. That's a tenuous area to judge the game by.

[1] That argument is reasonable, for one and only one playthrough. The problem is in that argument is when you go through another playthrough and decide to go somewhere different (in terms of choosing LI's) the game caters to that descision and decides to switch the sexual orientation of a character (yes I said caters, not adapts). From here we can only assume that said LI is bisexual (having preference for both sexual orientations), unless in every playthrough it's really a parallel universe, which I tend to find just plain silly.

[2] No Thedas shouldn't be judged all the time through the lens of the real world. Take the aspect of magic for instance. Everyone agrees upon magic and likes it, because it has a good foundation into the game, work has been done upon it to make it fit perfectly.

[3] Now on the topic of sexual orientation, no work has really been done upon it except for the cultural policy of "it's okay! Everyone can be who they want to be with!" This is cool and whatnot, however, that's all it has. What about hte biological aspect of it? It would be great if any sex coupling will produce offspring, but from what we've seen in the game this isn't the case. So I'm afraid since the aspect of sexual orientations hasn't been granted enough effort to solidfy itself in the game as the norm, it has to be observed by its RL parallel.

[1] Each new playthrough is a new world-state. It doesn't matter what you did in the last playthrough, it matters what you do in this one.

[2] It's arguable whether magic is a coherent thing in Thedas. I don't think it is, certainly. However, that's OT.

[3] There's apparently a gay gene, and certainly, for instance, Middle Eastern teenagers tend to experiment with other teenagers (because, you know, they have to get married before they do the dirty), but I don't know how much weight I give all of that. It's all up for debate and up for grabs.

Again, [3] leads to lockdowns.

Modifié par Bejos_, 17 juin 2011 - 10:42 .

[Sutekh]

Anathemic wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

What kind of influence does culture have on the biological ratios of sexual orientations?

Culture clearly has an enormous impact on sexual behaviour.

Sure it does, but what about the biological factors? Obviously from what I've seen in the game there is still only one sex coupling (male/female) that can produce offspring naturally. Unless Thedas isn't governed by the natural laws, which I find hard to believe (even magic has it's own laws in the game).

OK, apart from the obvious "social pressure" argument which you ignore entirely (when it comes to the fiability of stats, at  least)...

Bisexuals can't have kids now?

But... who are this children who live in my household, then?  Do you think I should bring them back to their non-existence?

[whykikyouwhy]

Anathemic wrote...

That argument is reasonable, for one and only one playthrough. The problem is in that argument is when you go through another playthrough and decide to go somewhere different (in terms of choosing LI's) the game caters to that descision and decides to switch the sexual orientation of a character (yes I said caters, not adapts). From here we can only assume that said LI is bisexual (having preference for both sexual orientations), unless in every playthrough it's really a parallel universe, which I tend to find just plain silly.

No Thedas shouldn't be judged all the time through the lens of the real world. Take the aspect of magic for instance. Everyone agrees upon magic and likes it, because it has a good foundation into the game, work has been done upon it to make it fit perfectly.

Now on the topic of sexual orientation, no work has really been done upon it except for the cultural policy of "it's okay! Everyone can be who they want to be with!" This is cool and whatnot, however, that's all it has. What about hte biological aspect of it? It would be great if any sex coupling will produce offspring, but from what we've seen in the game this isn't the case. So I'm afraid since the aspect of sexual orientations hasn't been granted enough effort to solidfy itself in the game as the norm, it has to be observed by its RL parallel.

I suppose it can be argued that multiple playthroughs do little to prevent meta-gaming, so you lose the fresh perspective. But if you only have that one playthrough and choose to romance a character of the same-sex, do you then assume that the other characters are all bisexual, simply because there are available heart icons in your dialogue? That just seems to be a convenient generalization. We really don't know enough about the characters, outside of what they tell Hawke, to determine how they define themselves, if at all. Why should we put labels on them as players? Why should Hawke put labels on them as their friend? I would think that Hawke would be happy to romance one (or two, or all) and then go to the Hanged Man for drinks with everyone. Camaraderie in its finest.

Regarding sexual orientations in the game and RL parallels as the observation point - I can't agree. We don't know enough about biology in Thedas (if there is a codex somewhere, I haven't read it...perhaps someone can elaborate). We don't know if there is actually a high ratio of infertility or not. We don't know what the societal driving forces are in Thedas with regard to children. Thus far, offspring has not been a focal point of the game. It would be difficult to be nursing a baby when you're trying to fight an Ogre. It would be challenging to get a baby Warden to take his/her first steps when some rogue darkspawn are threatening a village. Lack of children, and the production of them, may be more about story-telling than science.

[Anathemic]

Sutekh wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

What kind of influence does culture have on the biological ratios of sexual orientations?

Culture clearly has an enormous impact on sexual behaviour.

Sure it does, but what about the biological factors? Obviously from what I've seen in the game there is still only one sex coupling (male/female) that can produce offspring naturally. Unless Thedas isn't governed by the natural laws, which I find hard to believe (even magic has it's own laws in the game).

OK, apart from the obvious "social pressure" argument which you ignore entirely (when it comes to the fiability of stats, at  least)...

Bisexuals can't have kids now?

But... who are this children who live in my household, then?  Do you think I should bring them back to their non-existence?

What? I didn't state if bisexuals can/can't have children. Sure a bisexual male and female can produce offspring naturally.

[Bejos_]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Regarding sexual orientations in the game and RL parallels as the observation point - I can't agree. We don't know enough about biology in Thedas (if there is a codex somewhere, I haven't read it...perhaps someone can elaborate). We don't know if there is actually a high ratio of infertility or not. [...]

Kirkwall would seem to suggest fertility is very, very low. 20 people at the front gate is considered a "deluge" of refugees ;0)

Joking aside, bisexuals are perfectly capable of having children.

Ancient Greek men were expected to sire progeny, but even married men often had male lovers.

This was perfectly acceptable, at that time.

Modifié par Bejos_, 17 juin 2011 - 10:50 .

[Ryzaki]

And an heir to a high ranking noble family sleeping with males doesn't even raise an eyebrow.

I doubt Fereldan's really care who you sleep with. Even Gamlen with his eyeroll worthy comment isn't condemning of the relationship.

[Anathemic]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

That argument is reasonable, for one and only one playthrough. The problem is in that argument is when you go through another playthrough and decide to go somewhere different (in terms of choosing LI's) the game caters to that descision and decides to switch the sexual orientation of a character (yes I said caters, not adapts). From here we can only assume that said LI is bisexual (having preference for both sexual orientations), unless in every playthrough it's really a parallel universe, which I tend to find just plain silly.

No Thedas shouldn't be judged all the time through the lens of the real world. Take the aspect of magic for instance. Everyone agrees upon magic and likes it, because it has a good foundation into the game, work has been done upon it to make it fit perfectly.

Now on the topic of sexual orientation, no work has really been done upon it except for the cultural policy of "it's okay! Everyone can be who they want to be with!" This is cool and whatnot, however, that's all it has. What about hte biological aspect of it? It would be great if any sex coupling will produce offspring, but from what we've seen in the game this isn't the case. So I'm afraid since the aspect of sexual orientations hasn't been granted enough effort to solidfy itself in the game as the norm, it has to be observed by its RL parallel.

I suppose it can be argued that multiple playthroughs do little to prevent meta-gaming, so you lose the fresh perspective. But if you only have that one playthrough and choose to romance a character of the same-sex, do you then assume that the other characters are all bisexual, simply because there are available heart icons in your dialogue? That just seems to be a convenient generalization. We really don't know enough about the characters, outside of what they tell Hawke, to determine how they define themselves, if at all. Why should we put labels on them as players? Why should Hawke put labels on them as their friend? I would think that Hawke would be happy to romance one (or two, or all) and then go to the Hanged Man for drinks with everyone. Camaraderie in its finest.

Regarding sexual orientations in the game and RL parallels as the observation point - I can't agree. We don't know enough about biology in Thedas (if there is a codex somewhere, I haven't read it...perhaps someone can elaborate). We don't know if there is actually a high ratio of infertility or not. We don't know what the societal driving forces are in Thedas with regard to children. Thus far, offspring has not been a focal point of the game. It would be difficult to be nursing a baby when you're trying to fight an Ogre. It would be challenging to get a baby Warden to take his/her first steps when some rogue darkspawn are threatening a village. Lack of children, and the production of them, may be more about story-telling than science.

Yes, but again that perspective is only limited to one playthrough. When talking about specific aspects of a game, then a metagame perspective must be adhered to so we can draw comparisons and contrasts from one another (as is the community perspective of a forum).

Take it like this, someone finishes the game and states they had fun with it as a male character with said specific LI.

Now another player who has finished the game reads the first player's comment but then finds it contrasting as they played a female character and has the same LI.

That's where the metagame perspective comes in.

[Sutekh]

Anathemic wrote...

What? I didn't state if bisexuals can/can't have children. Sure a bisexual male and female can produce offspring naturally.

Then where were you going with that?

Sure it does, but what about the biological factors? Obviously from what I've seen in the game there is still only one sex coupling (male/female) that can produce offspring naturally. Unless Thedas isn't governed by the natural laws, which I find hard to believe (even magic has it's own laws in the game).

Your problem is with the realism of all bisexual LIs, right? Not all same-sex.

Anyway, this wasn't the OP's point, since they stated themselves that all LIs being straight would be as annoying. It was the predetermination of the thing. Derailing the discussion into politics will have this thread locked, and then another one will be done in a few days, and we'll all have the same circular argument again.

((Edited to fix the quotes))

Modifié par Sutekh, 17 juin 2011 - 10:59 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Anathemic wrote...

Yes, but again that perspective is only limited to one playthrough. When talking about specific aspects of a game, then a metagame perspective must be adhered to so we can draw comparisons and contrasts from one another (as is the community perspective of a forum).

Take it like this, someone finishes the game and states they had fun with it as a male character with said specific LI.

Now another player who has finished the game reads the first player's comment but then finds it contrasting as they played a female character and has the same LI.

That's where the metagame perspective comes in.

Ok, but even with those same two players discussing the LIs they individually chose, there are so many other aspects of the game that determine who Hawke is, or who the companions are. The characters could be rivals or friends, in addition to LIs. That doesn't mean that if I went the rival route with Anders, I would then declare him all sorts of nasty things (I don't want to offend Anders fans now...) based on how he reacted or what he may have said. And I wouldn't assume that he is defined by my personal negative view of him in that playthrough. I didn't write him...I only interacted with him a certain way as Hawke. There may be so much more to him that I didn't get to see. Same goes with sexuality. Even if my one-playthrough experience with him included a romance, I wouldn't immediately define him as one orientation or the other, because I simply don't know how he defines himself, or even if he cares at all.

[hoorayforicecream]

Anathemic wrote...

Yes, but again that perspective is only limited to one playthrough. When talking about specific aspects of a game, then a metagame perspective must be adhered to so we can draw comparisons and contrasts from one another (as is the community perspective of a forum).

Take it like this, someone finishes the game and states they had fun with it as a male character with said specific LI.

Now another player who has finished the game reads the first player's comment but then finds it contrasting as they played a female character and has the same LI.

That's where the metagame perspective comes in.

The romances actually do differ depending on Hawke's gender. They are similar, but not the exact same. There are nuanced differences, like having cookie dough ice cream, compared to chocolate chip ice cream.

Edit: Since we're talking about realism in video games, I feel I should requote myself from page 5:

Finally... using a realism argument is silly. Realism extremely rarely equates to fun, especially in a video game. I never want to play "Tax Effect" where the goal is to complete your taxes by April 15th, or "Station Wagon Age" where I drive kids to soccer practice, band practice, tae kwon do practice, and if I'm lucky, ballet practice. Claiming something in a fantasy game isn't realistic when people are shooting fire out of their fingers and lightning out of their rear ends is pretty laughable. 

What I ask for is that the game define rules for itself, and then be consistent in following those rules. Am I an assassin that's part of an ancient order who fights injustice by killing bad people? Cool, just keep it consistent by not making my character assassinate children. Am I a nihilistic, brutal former warlord who wishes nothing more than to destroy the gods that I believe caused all of my misery? Cool, just keep it consistent by not having too many happy, compassionate scenes. One of the rules they established in Thedas is that it's perfectly cool to like people of the same sex. They were consistent with it in DA2 - Sebastian and Aveline are as straight as they come, but there are also bisexuals. There just happens to be more bisexuals in DA2 than DAO. As long as they continue to be consistent in their presentation, I'm fine with it. 

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 17 juin 2011 - 11:03 .

[Anathemic]

Sutekh wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

What? I didn't state if bisexuals can/can't have children. Sure a bisexual male and female can produce offspring naturally.

Then where were you going with that?

Sure it does, but what about the biological factors? Obviously from what I've seen in the game there is still only one sex coupling (male/female) that can produce offspring naturally. Unless Thedas isn't governed by the natural laws, which I find hard to believe (even magic has it's own laws in the game).

Your problem is with the realism of all bisexual LIs, right? Not all same-sex.

Anyway, this wasn't the OP's point, since they stated themselves that all LIs being straight would be as annoying. It was the predetermination of the thing. Derailing the discussion into politics will have this thread locked, and then another one will be done in a few days, and we'll all have the same circular argument again.

((Edited to fix the quotes))

Ehm the part you quoted from me doesn't discriminate on any sexual orientation, I stated "sex coupling" this could mean any sex can be any sexual orientation but it all coems down to that the male/female coupling is the only way to produce natural offspring.

And what does biological sexual orientations have to do with anything political?

[Anathemic]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Yes, but again that perspective is only limited to one playthrough. When talking about specific aspects of a game, then a metagame perspective must be adhered to so we can draw comparisons and contrasts from one another (as is the community perspective of a forum).

Take it like this, someone finishes the game and states they had fun with it as a male character with said specific LI.

Now another player who has finished the game reads the first player's comment but then finds it contrasting as they played a female character and has the same LI.

That's where the metagame perspective comes in.

Ok, but even with those same two players discussing the LIs they individually chose, there are so many other aspects of the game that determine who Hawke is, or who the companions are. The characters could be rivals or friends, in addition to LIs. That doesn't mean that if I went the rival route with Anders, I would then declare him all sorts of nasty things (I don't want to offend Anders fans now...) based on how he reacted or what he may have said. And I wouldn't assume that he is defined by my personal negative view of him in that playthrough. I didn't write him...I only interacted with him a certain way as Hawke. There may be so much more to him that I didn't get to see. Same goes with sexuality. Even if my one-playthrough experience with him included a romance, I wouldn't immediately define him as one orientation or the other, because I simply don't know how he defines himself, or even if he cares at all.

On the same token, there may be so much more to said LI 's sexuality orientation that the player didn't get to see. If there is so much more to suggest and/or confirm a bisexual sexuality, then it will be finally set in stone that said LI is a bisexual character.

[schalafi]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Guns wrote...

Or some characters could be strictly straight and some strictly gay instead of catering to every liberal whine out there.

That would cost more to develop.

And again, who is to say that Anders isn't strictly gay when you play GentlemanHawke?  He only needs to be bi when you're playing LadyHawke, because he has that gay lover backstory.

I'm a little confused about Anders and Karl. Nowhere did it seem obvious to me that they were a bi/gay couple. I played a female Hawke several times, and each time I came to that scene I was waiting for some overt sign that they were in a relationship, but really didn't see any evidence one way or the other. Yes Anders was visibly upset by Karl's tranquilizing, but wouldn't he be upset if Karl were only a friend too? I think some players read too much in a scene where, imo, they could have just been friends, not lovers.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Anathemic wrote...

What? I didn't state if bisexuals can/can't have children. Sure a bisexual male and female can produce offspring naturally.

As can gay males and females.

There are many gay parents in the world.  And this becomes even easier if we don't assume monogamy.

[yaw]

woundedheart wrote...

I feel like the bisexuality is ridiculous and contrived. I feel like it takes character away from the companions. Sexual preference is a very personal thing and I feel like having everyone in the game possess the same exact sexual preference just takes away from their individuality.

This.

I'd much prefer a mix of straight and bi, and even just homosexual, characters. I do think sexuality is part of someone's character.

In a perfect world everyone would be pansexual, but perfect worlds and perfect people don't make for interesting characters.

[Anathemic]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Yes, but again that perspective is only limited to one playthrough. When talking about specific aspects of a game, then a metagame perspective must be adhered to so we can draw comparisons and contrasts from one another (as is the community perspective of a forum).

Take it like this, someone finishes the game and states they had fun with it as a male character with said specific LI.

Now another player who has finished the game reads the first player's comment but then finds it contrasting as they played a female character and has the same LI.

That's where the metagame perspective comes in.

The romances actually do differ depending on Hawke's gender. They are similar, but not the exact same. There are nuanced differences, like having cookie dough ice cream, compared to chocolate chip ice cream.

Edit: Since we're talking about realism in video games, I feel I should requote myself from page 5:

Finally... using a realism argument is silly. Realism extremely rarely equates to fun, especially in a video game. I never want to play "Tax Effect" where the goal is to complete your taxes by April 15th, or "Station Wagon Age" where I drive kids to soccer practice, band practice, tae kwon do practice, and if I'm lucky, ballet practice. Claiming something in a fantasy game isn't realistic when people are shooting fire out of their fingers and lightning out of their rear ends is pretty laughable. 

What I ask for is that the game define rules for itself, and then be consistent in following those rules. Am I an assassin that's part of an ancient order who fights injustice by killing bad people? Cool, just keep it consistent by not making my character assassinate children. Am I a nihilistic, brutal former warlord who wishes nothing more than to destroy the gods that I believe caused all of my misery? Cool, just keep it consistent by not having too many happy, compassionate scenes. One of the rules they established in Thedas is that it's perfectly cool to like people of the same sex. They were consistent with it in DA2 - Sebastian and Aveline are as straight as they come, but there are also bisexuals. There just happens to be more bisexuals in DA2 than DAO. As long as they continue to be consistent in their presentation, I'm fine with it. 

To go on what you quoted youself on.

On the same token having no realism will just alienate the player and having he/she call it a "stupid/weird game." I'm pretty sure I do not want to play some random dude who gets high off crack then falls down a hole only to find it the hole went through the planet and he actually entered space ignoring the rules of gravity and can breathe in space then uses his arms like a bird in flapping motion to travel 10x the speed of light and explore the universe only to find it really the inside of Patrick's mouth from Spongebob.

Realism may be commonly known as "unfun" in a general perspective but however realism must always be present to make the game practical (especially in RPGs).

[Sutekh]

Anathemic wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

That argument is reasonable, for one and only one playthrough. The problem is in that argument is when you go through another playthrough and decide to go somewhere different (in terms of choosing LI's) the game caters to that descision and decides to switch the sexual orientation of a character (yes I said caters, not adapts). From here we can only assume that said LI is bisexual (having preference for both sexual orientations), unless in every playthrough it's really a parallel universe, which I tend to find just plain silly.

No Thedas shouldn't be judged all the time through the lens of the real world. Take the aspect of magic for instance. Everyone agrees upon magic and likes it, because it has a good foundation into the game, work has been done upon it to make it fit perfectly.

Now on the topic of sexual orientation, no work has really been done upon it except for the cultural policy of "it's okay! Everyone can be who they want to be with!" This is cool and whatnot, however, that's all it has. What about hte biological aspect of it? It would be great if any sex coupling will produce offspring, but from what we've seen in the game this isn't the case. So I'm afraid since the aspect of sexual orientations hasn't been granted enough effort to solidfy itself in the game as the norm, it has to be observed by its RL parallel.

I suppose it can be argued that multiple playthroughs do little to prevent meta-gaming, so you lose the fresh perspective. But if you only have that one playthrough and choose to romance a character of the same-sex, do you then assume that the other characters are all bisexual, simply because there are available heart icons in your dialogue? That just seems to be a convenient generalization. We really don't know enough about the characters, outside of what they tell Hawke, to determine how they define themselves, if at all. Why should we put labels on them as players? Why should Hawke put labels on them as their friend? I would think that Hawke would be happy to romance one (or two, or all) and then go to the Hanged Man for drinks with everyone. Camaraderie in its finest.

Regarding sexual orientations in the game and RL parallels as the observation point - I can't agree. We don't know enough about biology in Thedas (if there is a codex somewhere, I haven't read it...perhaps someone can elaborate). We don't know if there is actually a high ratio of infertility or not. We don't know what the societal driving forces are in Thedas with regard to children. Thus far, offspring has not been a focal point of the game. It would be difficult to be nursing a baby when you're trying to fight an Ogre. It would be challenging to get a baby Warden to take his/her first steps when some rogue darkspawn are threatening a village. Lack of children, and the production of them, may be more about story-telling than science.

Yes, but again that perspective is only limited to one playthrough. When talking about specific aspects of a game, then a metagame perspective must be adhered to so we can draw comparisons and contrasts from one another (as is the community perspective of a forum).

Take it like this, someone finishes the game and states they had fun with it as a male character with said specific LI.

Now another player who has finished the game reads the first player's comment but then finds it contrasting as they played a female character and has the same LI.

That's where the metagame perspective comes in.

The problem is that when meta-gaming, you create a paradox. Comparing two realities is one thing. Modifying a reality with elements from another is different. Anders sleeping with Garrett and Anders sleeping with Marian doesn't make Anders bisexual. It makes him gay/bi in one reality and straight/bi in another. You can still compare the two. You cannot mix them.

In DAO, the Circle can be full of mages or annuled. It isn't both, or half-annuled, because you know that it can be the other. Carver can have many fates, but not all at once or a mix of the three. It is exactly the same when it comes to the LIs orientation. 

[Anathemic]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

What? I didn't state if bisexuals can/can't have children. Sure a bisexual male and female can produce offspring naturally.

As can gay males and females.

There are many gay parents in the world.  And this becomes even easier if we don't assume monogamy.

Yes a gay male/gay female coupling can produce natural offspring, however that wouldn't be practical now would it?

[ipgd]

Anathemic wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

What? I didn't state if bisexuals can/can't have children. Sure a bisexual male and female can produce offspring naturally.

As can gay males and females.

There are many gay parents in the world.  And this becomes even easier if we don't assume monogamy.

Yes a gay male/gay female coupling can produce natural offspring, however that wouldn't be practical now would it?

Why not? It happens.

[Anathemic]

Sutekh wrote...

The problem is that when meta-gaming, you create a paradox. Comparing two realities is one thing. Modifying a reality with elements from another is different. Anders sleeping with Garrett and Anders sleeping with Marian doesn't make Anders bisexual. It makes him gay/bi in one reality and straight/bi in another. You can still compare the two. You cannot mix them.

In DAO, the Circle can be full of mages or annuled. It isn't both, or half-annuled, because you know that it can be the other. Carver can have many fates, but not all at once or a mix of the three. It is exactly the same when it comes to the LIs orientation. 

But once you 'know' you can't 'unknow'. Once a player knows that the LI can sway to either sex that's where we establish the charcter being bisexual and you can't 'unknow' that.