645 réponses à ce sujet

[ipgd]

Sutekh wrote...

OK. I think I understand where the problem is. I'm not talking about changing their sexuality (certainly not). I'm talking about two different persons, who have similarities and differences. Just like my Hawkes are two different persons too, physically and personality-wise. 

But I see where my reasoning can be at fault in that particular aspect: Hawke is mine to shape, the events are mine to shape (to an extent), the basic nature of the NPCs aren't. So I guess we're back to stats, then.

It's not out of the question but I really just don't like this idea. Divergent character growth based on a player's influence is one thing, but it bothers me to have characters fundamentally and retroactively change their nature and histories based on an incidental metagame choice at the character creator.

[Bejos_]

ipgd wrote...

Because sexuality is an immutable biological aspect of a person and not an opinion subject to change.

That's quite a sweeping opinion ...

It's actually largely agreed upon by psychologists as a whole that a person's sexuality changes throughout his or her entire lifetime.

Modifié par Bejos_, 18 juin 2011 - 12:17 .

[ipgd]

Bejos_ wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Because sexuality is an immutable biological aspect of a person and not an opinion subject to change.

That's quite a sweeping opinion ...

It's actually largely agreed upon by psychologists as a whole that a person's sexuality changes throughout his or her entire lifetime.

[citation needed]

Sexuality and sexual identity are not the same thing.

Modifié par ipgd, 18 juin 2011 - 12:20 .

[Bejos_]

ipgd wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Because sexuality is an immutable biological aspect of a person and not an opinion subject to change.

That's quite a sweeping opinion ...

It's actually largely agreed upon by psychologists as a whole that a person's sexuality changes throughout his or her entire lifetime.

[citation needed]

Sexuality and sexual identity are not the same thing.

Yes, that's my point.

[Selene Moonsong]

ipgd wrote...

I'm not exactly sure how this makes anyone foolish. The observation that a character is willing to have a romance with both men and women is a very reasonable piece of evidence for the conclusion that a character is bisexual. Depending on the character's dialogue, their sexuality may be left open to interpretation -- but I am not aware of any character in a Bioware game that definitively states a contradictory sexual preference and identity contingent on the gender of the player.

Simply stated, the player is the one making the choice, not the character,

The character is simply designed to accommodate the player's choice. You can only play one Shepard at a time of either gender. If you play a male character and chose to strike up a romance with a male character, your romantic interest is Gay, as may your character be. If your male character chooses to strike up a romantic interest with a female character, then the character is straight, as may be your character,

The choice is yours, not theirs; they are meant to accommodate your Shepard  choices, no matter gender, not the other way around.. Unless the character you are involved with actually states otherwise, which is why I included the Kelly example and why I state that it is a foolish to suggest that a given character is bisexual, rather than straight or gay; is a matter of perspective and perceptions of the player.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 18 juin 2011 - 12:47 .

[Nightdragon8]

this is starting to get political... so a mod may be coming in pretty soon to shut it down

Honestly who is to say that Ander's wasn't gay in awakining, just because someone says that they are strait doesn't mean they are. I guess people forgot the "In the closet" term that was running rampant thoughout the world?

The major issue is that, you are also forgetting in awakening, that was pre joined Anders.

The write the story depending on player choices, thing makes replay and people's making assumptions. about NPC's

Pretty much anyone talking about how x char is bi sort of thing is "meta" playing , the only one we can 100% say for certien that is bi is Isabella.

Now while what they did with this was imo DAOA 2 not DAO 2 as for chacter wise, I understand they where I think trying to give everyone what they wanted. As in, letting anyone romance, the elves and anders and isabella. I think it ended up backfiring because of the whole issue of "replayablity" in that all of the sudden we have the charcters we thought we knew in one play though end up being different sexually than they where the last time. And all because we choice a femhawk over a malehawk.

I think what really happened was in one playthough found every charcter and formed opionions of them, and set that in stone. Basicly for a malehawke every male IL char was gay, which imo could ruin the mood for most people, while with a femhawk we find that the male LI where straight, while femelf was gay. so its the idea that we all where "comfortable with there sexuality" then have that rug pulled out from under us after the second playthrough. Is i think everyones "real" comlpant

So in reality what BW was trying to do was "give everyone there cake and eat it too" and it backfired because it is a game ment to be played multiple times. Honestly IMO the BL (boy love for those of you not initiated) fantasy stuff can stay in the fanfics

So all i ask is some stablty in the chacters wither it be gay straight bi, but let them have 1 chacter and let them stick to it.

So now a comment to BW people.

Great Idea, great experment but you should have done the experment on an expanition first and not a full release title.

EDIT: Adendume to the above mod: Yes you are accomedating the player or ina book the reader. We are not used to such options in our lives. And it doesn't refeclt things IRL as it where. If we met X person in real life. Will that person be X.Y.Z while in the game, depending on what you say, the person is X, Y, Z.  The issue I think everyone is having a problem with is that the Chacters aren't set in stone. And that isn't something we are at all used to. In all the RPG's I have played they all where X,Y,Z from start to finish with different playthoughs and what not. Wither you can romance the player or not.

Like say with Masseffect all LI where X,Y,Z  in masseffect 2 Kelly imo always sounded bi, as femshep or maleshep. IMO she just has a strong shep following.

Modifié par Nightdragon8, 18 juin 2011 - 12:53 .

[Pasquale1234]

Anathemic wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Okay but even so, going on a pure biological standpoint, it really doesn't change the sexual orientation ratios that my point is based upon.

What ratios are those?

Do you understand the difficulty in getting truthful, valid demographics in any culture that oppresses same-sex relationships?

My reply spelled out the cases where people who are truly bi or gay are (mis)identified as straight.

Naturally people with one-way sexual orientations (heterosexuals and homosexuals, heterosexuals obviously in the majority as they are the easiest and simplest form of deriving natural offspring) are more in population than two-way sexual orientations (bisexuality).

Even if you take the science out and go purely from a mathematical standpoint. 2/3 > 1/3.

So after having waltzed around the room a couple of times, here we are back at square one:  your subjective reality.

In an earlier post, you stated that you feel it is unrealistic for Hawke to have 4 companions who are open to romance with a Hawke of either sex.  You also presented the Chantry as a representation of the Church and several European countries as representations of nations in Thedas to support your assertion that the game should reflect your (subjective) version of reality.

Since then, we have covered quite a bit of ground.

We have discussed several characteristics of a culture that oppresses same-sex relationships, including:

- The fact that many gay and bisexual people remain in the closet for their entire lives, thereby skewing demographics.
- The fact that many people repress, deny, (mis)identify, or ignore any natural, spontaneous romantic interest they may feel toward a member of their own sex - thereby skewing demographics.
- The fact that many gay and bisexual people are parents.
- The fact that gay and bisexual people have valid social, economic, and political reasons to remain closeted, thereby skewing demographics.

I know several people irl who married and started families with someone of the opposite sex, and came out in mid-life.  I have every reason to believe there are many more of them still hiding - thereby skewing demographics.

Speaking of which, the researchers trying to gather such demographic data freely admit the difficulty of doing so.

We have also discussed the fact that the Chantry in Thedas is matriarchal and does not condemn same-sex relationships.  We see both men and women at the Pearl in Denerim and the Kirkwall's Blooming Rose, and players of either sex are offered the services of prostitutes of either sex.  In short, we see no bias against same-sex relationships, and no apparent need for anyone to hide or skew their true sexual orientation.

Of course, we also see no real indication that Thedas even has any concept of sexual orientation, or that they make any attempt to define, describe, or differentiate individuals' attractions in any way.

In our real world objective reality, we also know:

- That (pre-Christian) Roman and Greek cultures had a much, much higher incidence of same-sex sexual activity.

Given all of that, I'm going to state that my subjective reality is that it is entirely believable that Hawke would have 4 companions who are willing to engage in a romantic relationship with the right person of either sex.

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 18 juin 2011 - 01:29 .

[Selene Moonsong]

@]Nightdragon8

So, while BioWare choses to be open-minded, you would prefer that they be close-minded to suit your preferences?

Ask yourself if that would be absolutely fair to other members of the community.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 18 juin 2011 - 12:55 .

[ipgd]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Simply stated, the player is the one making the choice, not the character,

The character is simply designed to accommodate the player's choice. You can only play one Shepard at a time of either gender. If you play a male character and chose to strike up a romance with a male character, your romantic interest is Gay, as may your character be. If your male character chooses to strike up a romantic interest with a female character, then the character is straight, as may be your character,

The choice is yours, not theirs; they are meant to accommodate your Shepard  choices, no matter gender, not the other way around.. Unless the character you are involved with actually states otherwise, which is why I included the Kelly example and why I state that it is a foolish to suggest that a given character is bisexual, rather than straight or gay; is a matter of perspective and perceptions of the player.

Based on what, entirely metagame suppositions? Sexuality is also a matter of characterization. A bisexual character would have a different sexual history to an exclusively gay or exclusively straight character. The willingness to have sex with a single person is not a definitive indication of sexual identity, as it is a continuum of perceptions and choices made over a character's lifetime, and it is not always a definitive indication of exclusive sexuality (or even sexuality, sometimes, depending on the circumstance).

Again, what Bioware characters are shown to have actual, in-text contradictory statements of preference based on the gender of the player? In some cases, that sexuality is left open to interpretation and you are presumably free to make suppositions about their quantum sexuality or lack thereof, but there is similarly no evidence that I am aware of that these "subjective" characters are actually locked into a sexuality contingent on the player's gender.

If there is no in-text contradiction it's a false dichotomy. Bisexuality is an entirely legitimate interpretation, and the one I will ascribe to because it reeks less of Unfortunate Implications.

Bejos_ wrote...

Yes, that's my point.

And not mine. It could be feasible for a character to make a development in their sexual identity after meeting another person, but I do not like the idea that their sexuality actually changes retroactively in some kind of quantum determination.

[Nightdragon8]

I dont think this is about open mindedness at all its more of a how we are told a story in this game as opposed to how we are used to being told a story.

And honestly "fair" is such a relitve term in this case. Most people strive on how something isn't fair.

I am not saying to be closed minded I could care less if Anders is gay or not, but what about an option where Anders isn't gay in a MaleHake game? Where he wont ever hit on me. Why couldn't I get that option. OR where I could flirt with a guy and be regected saing "no im not that way". Those options are not in the game.

and as for anders no I don't want to always have to be "sarcastic" to him to prevent teh hit

Modifié par Nightdragon8, 18 juin 2011 - 01:00 .

[Pasquale1234]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

I dont think this is about open mindedness at all its more of a how we are told a story in this game as opposed to how we are used to being told a story.

And honestly "fair" is such a relitve term in this case. Most people strive on how something isn't fair.

I am not saying to be closed minded I could care less if Anders is gay or not, but what about an option where Anders isn't gay in a MaleHake game? Where he wont ever hit on me. Why couldn't I get that option. OR where I could flirt with a guy and be regected saing "no im not that way". Those options are not in the game.

and as for anders no I don't want to always have to be "sarcastic" to him to prevent teh hit

For the same reason that female Hawkes have the same non-options to be hit on by Anders?

Or the same reason that female Wardens were hit on by Alistair?

I would contend that a better solution may be for the LIs to at least "sound out" the PC before making any sort of advances.  But that needs to apply to PCs of either sex.

[whykikyouwhy]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

I dont think this is about open mindedness at all its more of a how we are told a story in this game as opposed to how we are used to being told a story.

And honestly "fair" is such a relitve term in this case. Most people strive on how something isn't fair.

I am not saying to be closed minded I could care less if Anders is gay or not, but what about an option where Anders isn't gay in a MaleHake game? Where he wont ever hit on me. Why couldn't I get that option. OR where I could flirt with a guy and be regected saing "no im not that way". Those options are not in the game.

Except that they are options, in a sense. Anders does make an overt flirty comment to Hawke, regardless of gender, and as Hawke, you can decide to return the tone or not. The latter is your "no thanks."

So too, Isabela makes a provocative offer at the end of her main quest, but in Hawke's subsequent conversations with her, you can opt to choose the heart options or not.

I'm sorry if being hit on, however casually and non-aggressively, is an affront to you in the game (or in real life). No character pushed you to the wall or made a grab at you. It was a comment, with a certain tone - a searching tone, trying to assess how you, as Hawke, felt. So you can just ignore the heart icon, choose to say something snarky and move on. 

But I do agree that having a character reject Hawke would be interesting. I guess you can count the Dalish elf during A Murder of Crows.

(apologies for the spoilers, however weak they are - the context of this thread has blurred those non-spoiler lines) 

[Bejos_]

ipgd wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

Yes, that's my point.

And not mine. It could be feasible for a character to make a development in their sexual identity after meeting another person, but I do not like the idea that their sexuality actually changes retroactively in some kind of quantum determination.

Huh?
If sexuality is a spectrum, each person tends to move along that spectrum (however little such movement may be), throughout their lifetime.
Their sexuality doesn't have to retroactively change. They just happen to be moving somewhere along that spectrum.
E.g. The main character of Monster.

Modifié par Bejos_, 18 juin 2011 - 01:12 .

[Selene Moonsong]

@Nightdragon8

There is no doubt in my mind that the issue with Anders was a mistake on the writer's side; a male should have been allowed to let him down gently if he considered Anders a friend. Otherwise, however, it is a matter of being inclusive of a player's choice.

Perhaps a better direction would be determining whether or not a character should be straight or gay based on interactive conversations before more romantic intentions are introduced. Tricky and complicated at best, but would better serve the player's intentions.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 18 juin 2011 - 01:16 .

[ipgd]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

I am not saying to be closed minded I could care less if Anders is gay or not, but what about an option where Anders isn't gay in a MaleHake game? Where he wont ever hit on me. Why couldn't I get that option.

Because it is part of Anders's character that he is attracted to men?

OR where I could flirt with a guy and be regected saing "no im not that way". Those options are not in the game.

I would like this option, too. Sebastian was sorely diminished by my inability to make him horribly uncomfortable with the kind of laughably lecherous comments f!Hawke has the pleasure of deploying.

Bejos_ wrote...

Huh?
If sexuality is a spectrum, each
person tends to move along that spectrum (however little such movement
may be), throughout their lifetime.
Their sexuality doesn't have to retroactively change. They just happen to be moving somewhere along that spectrum.

Jumping from one end of the spectrum to the other just... doesn't happen, though.

Like I said: I could buy a change in sexual identity based on the influence of my character (e.g. a previously straight identified character becoming bisexual identified). The idea that a character will change his or her sexuality based on an incidental option I pick at character creation, and then arrive with a pre-developed differing sexuality and sexual identity -- changing their history -- because of that incidental metagame choice, is very unappealing to me. Which is why I choose to believe that these "subjective" characters are bisexual.

E.g. The main character of Monster.

... Which Monster are we talking about?

Modifié par ipgd, 18 juin 2011 - 01:20 .

[Pasquale1234]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

@Nightdragon8

There is no doubt in my mind that the issue with Anders was a mistake on the writer's side; a male should have been allowed to let him down gently if he considered Anders a friend. Otherwise, however, it is a matter of being inclusive of a player's choice.

Perhaps a better direction would be determining whether or not a character should be straight or gay based on interactive conversations before more romantic intentions are introduced. Tricky and complicated at best, but would better serve the player's intentions.

I feel that a female PC should have the same privilege.

[Selene Moonsong]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

I feel that a female PC should have the same privilege.

Agreed, and I felt that a female player should have had an opportunity to do the same in DA Origins as well, particularly with the queen, as was done in Jade Empire with Liy..

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 18 juin 2011 - 01:27 .

[Nightdragon8]

@Selene

maybe. But the way I think the whole issue has turned into that it was "bad story writing" Which in a way it isn't but as i said before normally stories and RPGs have a set state in which the NPC are sexually. This I think is the first game where its a "you choose" the sexuality of people around you. Which is new and really its just outright strange.Also Kelly was a really minor chacter so I don't think people care one way or another.

Personally I didn't so much mind Anders flirting openly Its just it changes with every playthough and as story telling goes its strange. Normally in games and playthoughts there is alot of thing we take for granted and the main one is thre sexual preferince. Its not so much that i care he does it its the fact he does it both for Fem and Male Hawke, and has a "different" story behind it. sure that soudns good for tory telling but, he is a major chacter and we are in no way used to that sort of flexablity

[Bejos_]

ipgd wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

Huh?
If sexuality is a spectrum, each person tends to move along that spectrum (however little such movement may be), throughout their lifetime.
Their sexuality doesn't have to retroactively change. They just happen to be moving somewhere along that spectrum.

Jumping from one end of the spectrum to the other just... doesn't happen, though.

It could, conceivably. I'm not saying it's common, but it can't never have happened.

ipgd wrote...

Like I said: I could buy a change in sexual identity based on the influence of my character (e.g. a previously straight identified character becoming bisexual identified). The idea that a character will change his or her sexuality based on an incidental option I pick at character creation, and then arrive with a pre-developed differing sexuality and sexual identity -- changing their history -- because of that incidental metagame choice, is very unappealing to me. Which is why I choose to believe that these "subjective" characters are bisexual.

I don't understand why you think their sexuality is predetermined simply because you change your character's sex.
If I replay a game, I tend to view it as its own entity, apart from other playthroughs. My view is that the characters aren't any kind of sexuality until they reveal themselves to be a certain way, or until some action of mine reveals them to be that way.

Why don't you just assume the same? Is there some reason that you need to string your different playthroughs together? You view is valid, I'm just curious as to its reason.

ipgd wrote...

Which Monster are we talking about?

The movie for which Charlize Theron received an Oscar. She played Eileen Wuornos.
If you don't know of the movie, here's a summary of its first half: A (straight) woman is down on her luck, enters a bar, and falls in love with another woman. Up until that point in her life, her relationships had been exclusively with males-- and she had been attracted to males-- but this other woman, Shelby, was simply someone she fell in love with almost immediately.

Modifié par Bejos_, 18 juin 2011 - 01:36 .

[Selene Moonsong]

Bejos_ wrote...

The movie for which Charlize Theron received an Oscar. She played Eileen Wuornos.
If you don't know of the movie, here's a summary of its first half: A (straight) woman is down on her luck, enters a bar, and falls in love with another woman. Up until that point in her life, her relationships had been exclusively with males-- and she had been attracted to males-- but this other woman, Shelby, was simply someone she fell in love with almost immediately.

This!

[ipgd]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

@Selene

maybe. But the way I think the whole issue has turned into that it was "bad story writing" Which in a way it isn't but as i said before normally stories and RPGs have a set state in which the NPC are sexually. This I think is the first game where its a "you choose" the sexuality of people around you. Which is new and really its just outright strange.Also Kelly was a really minor chacter so I don't think people care one way or another.

Personally I didn't so much mind Anders flirting openly Its just it changes with every playthough and as story telling goes its strange. Normally in games and playthoughts there is alot of thing we take for granted and the main one is thre sexual preferince. Its not so much that i care he does it its the fact he does it both for Fem and Male Hawke, and has a "different" story behind it. sure that soudns good for tory telling but, he is a major chacter and we are in no way used to that sort of flexablity

There isn't really a different story, though. The idea that their sexuality is mutable by gender choice appears to be some sort of memetic concept that gets bandied around here as an objective fact, but that is not conclusively indicated in any of the dialogue. It appears to be carefully built so it is open to that interpretation, but in no way is it definitive or exclusive to an interpretation of bisexuality.

And, as I have linked before, Anders's writer indicates that he is bisexual. Merrill and Fenris's sexual identities are less defined, but there is still nothing that indicates they crystalize into being exclusively straight or exclusively gay depending on the player's gender choice.

Bejos_ wrote...

I don't understand why you think their sexuality is predetermined simply because you change your character's sex.
If I replay a game, I tend to view it as its own entity, apart from other playthroughs. My view is that the characters aren't any kind of sexuality until they reveal themselves to be a certain way, or until some action of mine reveals them to be that way.

Why don't you just assume the same? Is there some reason that you need to string your different playthroughs together? You view is valid, I'm just curious as to its reason.

Because I am highly interested in meta analysis of characterization. That there exist two entirely different characters based on some arbitrary choice in the character creator is an impediment to a cohesive and comprehensive outline of a character. The ability to consider each character on each playthrough entirely different characters was always there, and that's fine if you want to see it that way, but I resent any elements that enforce that interpretation within the text. And I don't believe DA2 did that, so I stick with and argue for my interpretation that they are bisexual in their characterization.

It also bothers me on level of principle, because it appears to have been done to avoid making people uncomfortable by being confronted with too many homos. I just don't see the problem with plain old bisexuals, frankly.

The movie for which Charlize Theron received an Oscar. She played Eileen Wuornos.
If you don't know of the movie, here's a summary of its first half: A (straight) woman is down on her luck, enters a bar, and falls in love with another woman. Up until that point in her life, her relationships had been exclusively with males-- and she had been attracted to males-- but this other woman, Shelby, was simply someone she fell in love with almost immediately.

I'm not familiar with the movie, so I can't comment on this specific case. Your description sounds more to me like a development of sexual identity, though, rather than an actual sexuality change. You can be a straight identified bisexual and be unaware of it because of lack of appealing options, denial, whatever.

A "sexuality change" would be more like a remake where this character was a lesbian identified lesbian all along.

[Bejos_]

ipgd wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

I don't understand why you think their sexuality is predetermined simply because you change your character's sex.
If I replay a game, I tend to view it as its own entity, apart from other playthroughs. My view is that the characters aren't any kind of sexuality until they reveal themselves to be a certain way, or until some action of mine reveals them to be that way.

Why don't you just assume the same? Is there some reason that you need to string your different playthroughs together? You view is valid, I'm just curious as to its reason.

Because I am highly interested in meta analysis of characterization. That there exist two entirely different characters based on some arbitrary choice in the character creator is an impediment to a cohesive and comprehensive outline of a character. The ability to consider each character on each playthrough entirely different characters was always there, and that's fine if you want to see it that way, but I resent any elements that enforce that interpretation within the text. And I don't believe DA2 did that, so I stick with and argue for my interpretation that they are bisexual in their characterization.

It also bothers me on level of principle, because it appears to have been done to avoid making people uncomfortable by being confronted with too many homos. I just don't see the problem with plain old bisexuals, frankly.

That last paragraph is funny Brofist!
I don't see why their sexuality or lack thereof would make them any more or less of a whole character. (I guess, the fact that they aren't, to me, rounded characters, make it difficult for me to identify how something like sexuality takes away from what are already poorly-conceived characters.) Can you give me an example of how a DA2 characters suffers for being interpreted in one or other way? If this is just a personal niggle, fine

I'm not familiar with the movie, so I can't comment on this specific case. Your description sounds more to me like a development of sexual identity, though, rather than an actual sexuality change. You can be a straight identified bisexual and be unaware of it because of lack of appealing options, denial, whatever.

A "sexuality change" would be more like a remake where this character was a lesbian identified lesbian all along.

I considered that possibility. I don't interpret it that way (and I don't think it was meant to be interpreted that way), but it's certainly possible.

See, the problem with having this discussion is that it's all interpretations. We don't have anything concrete to go on. Sure, there are developer quotes for DA2 characters, but they never come right out and say, "ALL OF THESE CHARACTERS ARE GAY/BI/STRAIGHT." They always slightly skirt the edges of outright saying that.

Modifié par Bejos_, 18 juin 2011 - 02:12 .

[Nightdragon8]

[quote]ipgd wrote...

Like I said: I could buy a change in sexual identity based on the influence of my character (e.g. a previously straight identified character becoming bisexual identified). The idea that a character will change his or her sexuality based on an incidental option I pick at character creation, and then arrive with a pre-developed differing sexuality and sexual identity -- changing their history -- because of that incidental metagame choice, is very unappealing to me. Which is why I choose to believe that these "subjective" characters are bisexual.[/quote]

I don't understand why you think their sexuality is predetermined simply because you change your character's sex.
If I replay a game, I tend to view it as its own entity, apart from other playthroughs. My view is that the characters aren't any kind of sexuality until they reveal themselves to be a certain way, or until some action of mine reveals them to be that way.

Why don't you just assume the same? Is there some reason that you need to string your different playthroughs together? You view is valid, I'm just curious as to its reason.

[/quote]

I do agree that each tim you start the game its a "new" story being told. But that is just how we think. we make connections to what we have done in the past. Thats why alot of teh reveiws for DA2 whre the way they where. In DA2 you aren't playing as the Warden you are playing as someone else, with only a slightly different veiws in the world. That pretty much the Epic that happened in Ferealden didn't even seem that big ofa  deal anywhere else (if this was writen to be so then good job, if it was unitentional then shame on you for bad story writing)

We all do it, play any RPG over again and you will find yourself "already knowing" what the other chacters are like.
With this game its flexable which in new to use so its different. I hate to be the one to inform you but acceptnace of a new way of doing things takes a long time. I wouldn't dobt some 10 years down the road that it will be standered in game. 

But in a way BW is giving us options we don't want to have. I mean I don't want to be given the option of wither X player is gay or not, because IRL its not MY choice wither someone else is gay or not.

Let me put it this way, I don't mind X chacter being gay, but going though a different play though and then having a NPC say he is completely stright is just too strange. Because in reality it gives us less to discuss on the forums. Because when we go ont he forum the topic of "wow X NPC is gay" will be shot down as "he wasn't gay in my playthough because I was X" 

And with the whole Anders going nuts and doing what he did in the game its going to be a hotbed of desstion of why he did what he did in the game. and havin his chacter be flexable is hard to talk about it. Granted all the talk about "The event" havn't gone there and doesn't really seem to publicly matter, I wouldn't doubt that people are thinking it tho.

So as I said it's not wither or not he is the way he is, its more of Why are we given a choice in the matter of him being that way or not. I could care less if Anders was gay or not why when I hear other people talk about what he says during "there" diologe that he was eomthing else.

Ah, I think thats the real problem normally with all other RPGs we come online to gossip about the chacters and sahre our veiws but in the events on the game you are given the choice of wither or not Anders is gay or not we can't gossip because "we chose him to be that way" 

I think we as a whole don't like to be given the power to decide for others in that sort of way.

[Bejos_]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

[...] In a way BW is giving us options we don't want to have. I mean I don't want to be given the option of wither X player is gay or not, because IRL its not MY choice wither someone else is gay or not.

Let me put it this way, I don't mind X chacter being gay, but going though a different play though and then having a NPC say he is completely stright is just too strange. Because in reality it gives us less to discuss on the forums. Because when we go ont he forum the topic of "wow X NPC is gay" will be shot down as "he wasn't gay in my playthough because I was X"

[...]

Ah, I think thats the real problem normally with all other RPGs we come online to gossip about the chacters and sahre our veiws but in the events on the game you are given the choice of wither or not Anders is gay or not we can't gossip because "we chose him to be that way" 

I think we as a whole don't like to be given the power to decide for others in that sort of way.

Ah okay. This was very helpful, thanks. Okay, so you like to have a set character, in order to be able to "share" him or her with everyone else. You don't like that Character A in your game is different to Character B in someone else's game.

How did you feel about Alastaire in DA:O? He can change, depending on how you treat him. If you treat him nicely, he's "softer", if you treat him harshly, he becomes more "responsible". How did you feel about that?

[Nightdragon8]

Bejos_ wrote...

Nightdragon8 wrote...

[...] In a way BW is giving us options we don't want to have. I mean I don't want to be given the option of wither X player is gay or not, because IRL its not MY choice wither someone else is gay or not.

Let me put it this way, I don't mind X chacter being gay, but going though a different play though and then having a NPC say he is completely stright is just too strange. Because in reality it gives us less to discuss on the forums. Because when we go ont he forum the topic of "wow X NPC is gay" will be shot down as "he wasn't gay in my playthough because I was X"

[...]

Ah, I think thats the real problem normally with all other RPGs we come online to gossip about the chacters and sahre our veiws but in the events on the game you are given the choice of wither or not Anders is gay or not we can't gossip because "we chose him to be that way" 

I think we as a whole don't like to be given the power to decide for others in that sort of way.

Ah okay. This was very helpful, thanks. Okay, so you like to have a set character, in order to be able to "share" him or her with everyone else. You don't like that Character A in your game is different to Character B in someone else's game.

How did you feel about Alastaire in DA:O? He can change, depending on how you treat him. If you treat him nicely, he's "softer", if you treat him harshly, he becomes more "responsible". How did you feel about that?

I was fine with it.

But please don't say how it is the same because it isn't .It really isn't.

And the charcter interaction from DAO and DA2 are so far different that imo not the same kind of game.