95 réponses à ce sujet

[Clonedzero]

DarthRevan4life wrote...

I don't necessarily think that by saving the Rachni the Reapers will somehow indoctrinate them. I think the bigger issue here is, whether or not the Krogan will ally themselves with you due to the fact they had fought a war against the Rachni. I don't view the Krogans as a species to forget battles as they seem like a "warrior" race and allying yourself with an enemy of theres will bring up potential problems in recruiting them towards Earth's cause.

fighting a war with someone a long time ago doesnt mean they wont ever be allies again.

we're allies with japan. england, germany, italy, russia, ect.

[Zem_]

XxDeonxX wrote...
Just sayin', The Rachni choice in number 1 is a great oppotunity to shut up the renegades about how well treated the paragons are lol. I

I think a great way to shut them up is to remind them that the reward for being a renegade is BEING a renegade. 

[DarthRevan4life]

Clonedzero wrote...

DarthRevan4life wrote...

I don't necessarily think that by saving the Rachni the Reapers will somehow indoctrinate them. I think the bigger issue here is, whether or not the Krogan will ally themselves with you due to the fact they had fought a war against the Rachni. I don't view the Krogans as a species to forget battles as they seem like a "warrior" race and allying yourself with an enemy of theres will bring up potential problems in recruiting them towards Earth's cause.

fighting a war with someone a long time ago doesnt mean they wont ever be allies again.

we're allies with japan. england, germany, italy, russia, ect.

That's definitely true but fighting any of those countries didn't ultimately lead us to develop a biological weapon to cut the birth rate of those countries   After battling the Rachni the Krogan population blew up and you could argue the Genophage happened as a result of the victory over the Rachni.  So in my humble opinion, I think this could create a roadblock in getting the Krogan's help.

[Clonedzero]

DarthRevan4life wrote...

That's definitely true but fighting any of those countries didn't ultimately lead us to develop a biological weapon to cut the birth rate of those countries   After battling the Rachni the Krogan population blew up and you could argue the Genophage happened as a result of the victory over the Rachni.  So in my humble opinion, I think this could create a roadblock in getting the Krogan's help.

yeah, but thats just one blue dialogue choice i win button away from not being a problem anymore. <_<

[Wynne]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Just sayin', The Rachni choice in number 1 is a great oppotunity to shut up the renegades about how well treated the paragons are lol. I mean sure they probably were indoctronated against their will and completely innocent in the rachni wars.

But its the simple fact that they are a hive mind race that will bite the *** of those who spared the queen. I mean it only takes the queen to get indoctrinated to have the whole race turn against you. If the reapers have indoctrinated them before then they will know this and already could have planned for it. They have experience indoctrinating queens and so could easily do so again, unless the queen is a liar and their race really is agressive and hostile. So the choice is bad either way =P

Just my two cents anyway. What you guys think?

Nah. Better to make the Renegade right about something like BDtS--bad guy gets away, he does something much worse the next time, and actually succeeds. Paragons then pay for making an emotional decision to save a person they liked instead of sacrificing the lives of a few in favor of sparing more in the future.

Better to punish people for not being harsh enough on a terrorist than refusing to commit genocide and join the same select category reserved for people like Hitler.

The Rachni... like Bolboreta, I've been thinking since they revealed there would be Rachni husks that they've chosen to even the playing field a bit on this one. If you killed the Rachni, there will be no Rachni husks--but also no Rachni allies. that's my guess. There can be positive AND negative aspects to sparing them. But me, I would err on the side of not committing genocide, even as a Renegade.

Modifié par Wynne, 16 juin 2011 - 07:42 .

[DarthRevan4life]

Clonedzero wrote...

DarthRevan4life wrote...

That's definitely true but fighting any of those countries didn't ultimately lead us to develop a biological weapon to cut the birth rate of those countries   After battling the Rachni the Krogan population blew up and you could argue the Genophage happened as a result of the victory over the Rachni.  So in my humble opinion, I think this could create a roadblock in getting the Krogan's help.

yeah, but thats just one blue dialogue choice i win button away from not being a problem anymore. <_<

I sure hope that's not how it works...I'd like my actions to have consequences in the war against the Reapers and not just have to pass a speech check to get a species loyalty. 

[Smeelia]

DarthRevan4life wrote...

That's definitely true but fighting any of those countries didn't ultimately lead us to develop a biological weapon to cut the birth rate of those countries   After battling the Rachni the Krogan population blew up and you could argue the Genophage happened as a result of the victory over the Rachni.  So in my humble opinion, I think this could create a roadblock in getting the Krogan's help.

The genophage didn't really have anything to do with the Rachni War, the Krogan Rebellions were a separate conflict where the Krogan attacked everyone else.  If you're linking the genophage to the Rachni War then you also have to link the uplifting of the Krogan and that's the only reason they were able to stop fighting themselves on their own planet and start attacking others instead.

Anyway, the Krogan work with Turians and Salarians these days and they're the ones that actually released the genophage.  I doubt the Krogan hold anything against the Rachni since the Krogan won the war and probably had a good time doing it (the Rachni are more like favourite enemies than hated foes).

[Mike 9987]

 This will result in a consequence from actions chosen in the game, thus it will not happen. it will be more along the lines of a random npc named "citizen" saying "i heard there were sightings of rachni" with no further information given again. 

Modifié par Mike 9987, 16 juin 2011 - 07:42 .

[mulder1199]

one thing to consider is where the rachnii were in ME1, and who was controlling them....benezia was an agent of saren, and therefore the reapers...they may have rachnii at their control no matter what you did....

[Smeelia]

Wynne wrote...

Nah. Better to make the Renegade right about something like BDtS--bad guy gets away, he does something much worse the next time, and actually succeeds. Paragons then pay for making an emotional decision to save a person they liked instead of sacrificing the lives of a few in favor of sparing more in the future.

In some ways the Paragon decision in that case is more "practical", you save some lives at the cost that Balak could possibly go on to kill others.  There's no guarantee that he'll kill anyone later (even if there's a good chance that he'll try), he could just as easily be caught when trying or find something else to do instead.  I don't think it'd be the best choice really.

[Wynne]

There's no guarantee he will be caught. I want *something* to bite the Paragon on his/her perfect little butt, don't you? It can't all be positive for them. Do you have other suggestions for what should turn out badly for the Paragon?

But I disagree that it's more practical to save them. A terrorist who almost successfully pulled off a mission of mass destruction, and you let him go to save what? Three people? Well, I'm sure he'll be moved by your mercy and never ever hurt three or more people ever again! Either that or someone will surely stop him.

Nah, both of those options sound too good to be true to me. Though, I'm sort of a Paragade at heart, I admit. Maybe you see it differently.

Modifié par Wynne, 16 juin 2011 - 07:55 .

[aksoileau]

Just because there is a rachni husk doesn't mean they're all indoctrinated. When I see an asari husk does that mean they're all husks? No.

[AC5]

Wynne wrote...

There's no guarantee he will be caught. I want *something* to bite the Paragon on his/her perfect little butt, don't you? It can't all be positive for them. Do you have other suggestions for what should turn out badly for the Paragon?

But I disagree that it's more practical to save them. A terrorist who almost successfully pulled off a mission of mass destruction, and you let him go to save what? Three people? Well, I'm sure he'll be moved by your mercy and never ever hurt three or more people ever again! Either that or someone will surely stop him.

Nah, both of those options sound too good to be true to me. Though, I'm sort of a Paragade at heart, I admit. Maybe you see it differently.

Actually the paragon decision is the correct one in that Shepard's priority would be to save the hostages while commanding the Normandy to destroy anything attempting to leave the facility. It's the same mistake they made with Zaeed on Zorya as their is no reason why the Normandy can not track that gunship. This is the problem with some of the tough decision in ME are presented as a forced choice of lesser evils but, under scrutiny will actually fall apart and the obvious correct choice is omited for drama. Hopefully in ME3 Bioware will take more care in constructing these defining plot moments

[Smeelia]

Wynne wrote...

There's no guarantee he will be caught. I want *something* to bite the Paragon on his/her perfect little butt, don't you? It can't all be positive for them. Do you have other suggestions for what should turn out badly for the Paragon?

I don't really have a problem with it all working out fine for Paragons, I kind of enjoy it.  If you play pure Paragon you get an awesome space opera with positive themes and amazing heroism, Renegades tend to get a more cynical universe that still has all the heroism but in a way that makes sense.  There are other games where doing the "right" thing doesn't always work out and Mass Effect has already established it's tone so changing it wouldn't really make sense (and doesn't seem necessary).

Wynne wrote...

But I disagree that it's more practical to save them. A terrorist who almost successfully pulled off a mission of mass destruction, and you let him go to save what? Three people? Well, I'm sure he'll be moved by your mercy and never ever hurt three or more people ever again! Either that or someone will surely stop him.

There's no guarantee it'll work out, that's not really what being practical is about.  It's just that letting him go definately saves lives without any certainty of future problems while killing him now guarantees he wont be a problem in the future (with no guarantee he would have been a problem) and costs the lives of the hostages.  You're trading lives to avoid possible bad consequences by killing him.

I suppose part of it depends on how likely you think it is that he'll succeed in another attack (it's far from guaranteed, or every colony would be wiped out) and how much you value three lives.  Even so, there's not really enough evidence to show that negative consequences will come from his escape.

Overall, I think it's a badly done section because there are also issues with the details.  For example, he can detonate the bomb if you say you'll kill him (and you can't just shoot him) but he can't if you let him go (there could be a reason, maybe he can't get the signal once he's gone but it's not really dealt with).  Similarly, there's no way to track him and he can get away from the planet without any problems despite the Normandy being available nearby.  It already relies on improbabilities to force a supposedly "difficult" decision.

[graciegrace]

Slidell505 wrote...

I hope it bites me in the ass.

I do too.  I want some of my paragon choices to end up being wrong, it'd be so much more realistic that way.

[seirhart]

I will not regret sparing the queen everytime I get to that area; I don't even think about it, I immediatly take free the rachni queen. Why because A.) The turians and the council made a mistake about wiping them out B.) it isn't the rachni's fault, I believe that what the queen tells you about colors bad; they were manipulated and I believe that it was a reaper more specifically Soverign got a hold of them.

I am of the opinion that I don't want any paragon choice I made come back to haunt me; realistic or not.

Modifié par seirhart, 16 juin 2011 - 08:22 .

[ObserverStatus]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Just sayin', The Rachni choice in number 1 is a great oppotunity to shut up the renegades about how well treated the paragons are lol. I mean sure they probably were indoctronated against their will and completely innocent in the rachni wars.

But its the simple fact that they are a hive mind race that will bite the *** of those who spared the queen. I mean it only takes the queen to get indoctrinated to have the whole race turn against you. If the reapers have indoctrinated them before then they will know this and already could have planned for it. They have experience indoctrinating queens and so could easily do so again, unless the queen is a liar and their race really is agressive and hostile. So the choice is bad either way =P

Just my two cents anyway. What you guys think?

I disagree.  While the rachni queen's good behavior is clearly a ruse, I'm still not going to regret saving her.  I have come to think of paragon playthroughs as being similar to fallout: new vegas's "hardcore" mode.  Like hardcore mode, paragon players will bring extra challenge upon themselves in having to battle rachni and the shiala/thorian gestalt, but that does not mean they will regret it.  I expect the extra challenge to be quite enjoyable.  Besides, after the rachni turn on me and i fill them with plasma, I can deep fry their remains in coconut butter for a delicous snack.

[Kusy]

Yall mad people.

[Eurhetemec]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Just sayin', The Rachni choice in number 1 is a great oppotunity to shut up the renegades about how well treated the paragons are lol. I mean sure they probably were indoctronated against their will and completely innocent in the rachni wars.

But its the simple fact that they are a hive mind race that will bite the *** of those who spared the queen. I mean it only takes the queen to get indoctrinated to have the whole race turn against you. If the reapers have indoctrinated them before then they will know this and already could have planned for it. They have experience indoctrinating queens and so could easily do so again, unless the queen is a liar and their race really is agressive and hostile. So the choice is bad either way =P

Just my two cents anyway. What you guys think?

It's a risk, but Shepard is all about taking risks. There's an upside, too, though - it's probably pretty pointless and perhaps even impossible to indoctrinate individual non-queen rachni - without the queen they're likely to just go berserk and attack anything that isn't other Rachni.

So anyway, there's a solution - make sure you protect the queen from indoctrination! As long as she's safe, the whole lot are probably safe.

[marshalleck]

AC5 wrote...

Wynne wrote...

There's no guarantee he will be caught. I want *something* to bite the Paragon on his/her perfect little butt, don't you? It can't all be positive for them. Do you have other suggestions for what should turn out badly for the Paragon?

But I disagree that it's more practical to save them. A terrorist who almost successfully pulled off a mission of mass destruction, and you let him go to save what? Three people? Well, I'm sure he'll be moved by your mercy and never ever hurt three or more people ever again! Either that or someone will surely stop him.

Nah, both of those options sound too good to be true to me. Though, I'm sort of a Paragade at heart, I admit. Maybe you see it differently.

Actually the paragon decision is the correct one in that Shepard's priority would be to save the hostages while commanding the Normandy to destroy anything attempting to leave the facility. It's the same mistake they made with Zaeed on Zorya as their is no reason why the Normandy can not track that gunship. This is the problem with some of the tough decision in ME are presented as a forced choice of lesser evils but, under scrutiny will actually fall apart and the obvious correct choice is omited for drama. Hopefully in ME3 Bioware will take more care in constructing these defining plot moments

It's a fair argument, and it cuts both ways for the renegade too. RenShep could save the hostages and the colonists by simply putting a bullet in Balak's head before he whips out his trusty detonator. But no, he decides to uncharacteristically stop shooting to chat it out with the bad guy...

That said, I have a feeling no matter what scenario Bioware employs in the future, some enterprising member of the community will say "but why couldn't I have avoided all this by doing such and such..." Eventually we just have to accept that they are created and framed for dramatic flare.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't try to avoid obviously hamfisting the drama.

Modifié par marshalleck, 16 juin 2011 - 08:40 .

[nitrog100]

It's probably not going to have a major unfixable impact. Paragon/Renegade choices were never supposed to be black and white. I play mostly Paragon, but I still disagreed with a lot of his decisions. Some of the Renegade interrupts were the smartest decision to make.

[Yeti13]

If the Queen stays out of the way, perhaps in a system that does not have a Mass Relay connected to it then it shouldn't be a problem. I always wonderd how the Reapers managed to indoctrinate the Rachni 2,000 years before they came back to the Milky Way

[Paula Deen]

The only way the Rachni could turn against you is if the queen is indoctrinated. Which is borderline impossible, as it's extremely well hidden.

And as for the Rachni husks, that's because they're from the Rachni Wars era.

[Smeelia]

Yeti13 wrote...

If the Queen stays out of the way, perhaps in a system that does not have a Mass Relay connected to it then it shouldn't be a problem. I always wonderd how the Reapers managed to indoctrinate the Rachni 2,000 years before they came back to the Milky Way

You encounter a few people who have come into contact with Reaper artifacts (they're usually husks when you see them) so it's possible that it was just something like that.

I don't think we can say for sure that the Rachni were indoctrinated, it's just a popular theory with some evidence (a fair bit of which is the words of the Rachni Queen).

[billywaffles]

Yeah, maybe Sarah Kerrigan takes control of the rachni and terrorizes the whole galaxy...