347 réponses à ce sujet

[Moiaussi]

Smeelia wrote...

There's not exactly significant evidence to suggest that (especially at the time) so I don't think it would be a concern in deciding whether to try the grenades or not.  It might well work out badly in the long run but there's very little reason (if any) to kill the colonists.

I have to admit, it could be kind of fun if they grew a new Thorian from the colonists and the reason they didn't want the invasive procedures (which you helped prevent) was that it might uncover their secret.  None of the decisions leading up to that would really be "bad" (since it would be about impossible to predict) but it would still be a situation for you to deal with that would sort of make some sense (it's unlikely but still possible).

The fact that we get a second chance to deal with the infection in ME2 suggests that it might be an ME3 issue. Killing the colonists and Shiala in ME1 would reduce the threat, full invasive tests (which are renegade btw) in ME2 would eliminate the threat.

Yup, I was just thinking that it is interesting to know exactly why people make decisions and how changes to the way the decisions are presented (or allowed) would affect them could also be interesting.  I'd imagine there are a lot of different views for each decision.

Exactly.

There's a saying, "everyone makes mistakes".  If you thought I was trying to offend anyone or be insulting then you clearly misunderstood (and thus supported my point).

I thought you were being presumtuous but not deliberately trying to offend.

[Markinator_123]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

The Galaxy was not at risk for saving the DA. That is wrong and absurd. That is not the way the choice is meant to be seen.

Yes it is. That is exactly how the choice is presented.

Honestly, the first time I sacrificed the council (also the first time I beat the game) I thought I was going to get a big game over screeen due to Sovereign winning if I saved them. I just didn't think saving them made much sense in the heat of the moment like that.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Yes, the Galaxy was put at risk for choosing to send your only reinforcements to save the Council instead of stopping Sovereign before he regained control of the Citadel. But hey, it payed off... what are those who made that choice mad about?

[Moiaussi]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

The Galaxy was not at risk for saving the DA. That is wrong and absurd. That is not the way the choice is meant to be seen.

Yes it is. That is exactly how the choice is presented.

Of might have been at risk. The galaxy might also be at risk for not saving the DA. Pretending to know the actual risk levels in advance is disingenuous.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Was at risk... nothing to dispute there. You don't have to pretend anything to know that. The issue is time.

[TheRevanchist]

Heavy risk.....but the priiizzzeee

[Mr. Gogeta34]

lol , yes.

kylecouch wins

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 19 juin 2011 - 06:29 .

[TheRevanchist]

I couldn't pass by the massive neon sign that said "SAY IT!"

[Moiaussi]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Was at risk... nothing to dispute there. You don't have to pretend anything to know that. The issue is time.

We know after the fact that saving the DA did not jeopardize stopping Sovereign. We didn't know that until after the fact but after the fact we know that the only risk of not stopping Sovereign was if Shep n squad failed to defeat mecha-Saren.

[Dean_the_Young]

Smeelia wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Or, you could, you know, role play. Without caring about game mechanics.

Well, you'd have to be roleplaying a specific kind of character.  You're told the grenades should work, there's no indication that there's a risk of using them and there's no harm in trying them at least once (at which point you find they do work).

You can roleplay it however you want (and I do mean that, I've even killed the colonists myself a few times) but given how one sided the choice is you'd need to make up some strong justification (or just like killing people) and the description that you "wiped out the colony" would still pretty much sum it up.  I think it is possible to not bother speaking to the Baynhams so you could be a character that rushes off without knowing of the alternative and kills the colonists thinking it's the only way.

The uncertainty of the grenades working at all is reason enough. Difficulty and risk in using grenades is enough. The concern about the grenades not working long enough is reason enough: the threat that knocked-out colonists would wake up and attack right after you pass, allowing them to encircle and flank you from the rear..

Generally, the point at which you ignore game mechanics is the point at which it begins to be reasonable.

[Seboist]

The worst part of the Paragon path on Feros is that not only the grenades knock out the colonists but they insta-kill the creepers.

[Smeelia]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The uncertainty of the grenades working at all is reason enough. Difficulty and risk in using grenades is enough. The concern about the grenades not working long enough is reason enough: the threat that knocked-out colonists would wake up and attack right after you pass, allowing them to encircle and flank you from the rear..

Generally, the point at which you ignore game mechanics is the point at which it begins to be reasonable.

If anything, the game mechanics make the risk seem greater than it is.  It'd be easy to check the status of the colonists once affected by the gas (every squad can use first aid and many classes have potential training) and it'd be easy to disarm them as well.  Also, the threat they pose is relatively minor anyway since they're poorly equipped in the first place (and bear in mind that they may be tougher to fight in gameplay terms but it's unlikely they'd even have kinetic barriers or armour of any kind, one shot should do the trick realistically speaking).  The explanation given makes it clear that the grenades have a good chance of working, the uncertainty isn't significant and it's still easy to test without putting the mission at risk (at worst it doesn't work and you kill them anyway).

There may be a risk but it's pretty small and you're still looking at saving lives.  There must come a time when a risk is small enough to take, almost every mission Shepard goes on involves a much bigger risk in the first place so it doesn't really make a lot of sense to worry about something so minor and easily dealt with.

Seboist wrote...

The worst part of the Paragon path on Feros is that not only the grenades knock out the colonists but they insta-kill the creepers.

Well, you can still use them on the creepers and avoid hitting the colonists (they tend to stand apart anyway, probably so that Paragons don't accidentally kill colonists while shooting creepers).

Moiaussi wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

As of ME2 the survivors are still suffering from thorian spores in their systems. It may yet turn out that they are better off dead, and that their survival does represent a renewed threat. There are aspects of the situation other than strictly tactical.

Actually even if you kill them they apparently aren't all dead.

That bothered me too....

Thinking about it, Joker does contact you to say something about the colonists going mad so maybe the potential survivors are the ones attacking the Normandy (they could be some distance away).  If the colony doesn't continue then maybe Exogeni just "tidies them up" (otherwise they'd end up on other worlds and could still be an issue).

[Nightwriter]

It is given surprisingly little attention, considering what he did was pretty commendable. He'd rather kill himself than stop the person who was trying to save the colony.

[lobi]

Nuke em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

[Nightwriter]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It is given surprisingly little attention, considering what he did was pretty commendable. He'd rather kill himself than stop the person who was trying to save the colony.

I guess Shepard was so moved by his heroism that it didn't occur to the commander to lob a knockout gas grenade at him.

I was about to ask why Shepard would lob a grenade at a dead man who had just committed suicide, but hey, who am I to judge what is or isn't an appropriate amount of paranoia.

[AngelicMachinery]

Nightwriter wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It is given surprisingly little attention, considering what he did was pretty commendable. He'd rather kill himself than stop the person who was trying to save the colony.

I guess Shepard was so moved by his heroism that it didn't occur to the commander to lob a knockout gas grenade at him.

I was about to ask why Shepard would lob a grenade at a dead man who had just committed suicide, but hey, who am I to judge what is or isn't an appropriate amount of paranoia.

I believe the point Saphara is attempting to make is why Shepard didn't lob a grenade at him before he pulls the trigger.

[Asheer_Khan]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It is given surprisingly little attention, considering what he did was pretty commendable. He'd rather kill himself than stop the person who was trying to save the colony.

I guess Shepard was so moved by his heroism that it didn't occur to the commander to lob a knockout gas grenade at him.

Nevermind

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 19 juin 2011 - 09:50 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Moiaussi wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Was at risk... nothing to dispute there. You don't have to pretend anything to know that. The issue is time.

We know after the fact that saving the DA did not jeopardize stopping Sovereign. We didn't know that until after the fact but after the fact we know that the only risk of not stopping Sovereign was if Shep n squad failed to defeat mecha-Saren.

It still jeopardized it... but it worked out.  Risk is not the same as outcome.

[Nightwriter]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It is given surprisingly little attention, considering what he did was pretty commendable. He'd rather kill himself than stop the person who was trying to save the colony.

I guess Shepard was so moved by his heroism that it didn't occur to the commander to lob a knockout gas grenade at him.

I was about to ask why Shepard would lob a grenade at a dead man who had just committed suicide, but hey, who am I to judge what is or isn't an appropriate amount of paranoia.

I believe the point Saphara is attempting to make is why Shepard didn't lob a grenade at him before he pulls the trigger.

This makes little sense. Shepard had no reason to be moved by Fai Dan's heroism before he killed himself.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It is given surprisingly little attention, considering what he did was pretty commendable. He'd rather kill himself than stop the person who was trying to save the colony.

I guess Shepard was so moved by his heroism that it didn't occur to the commander to lob a knockout gas grenade at him.

The "Make sure he's dead" line that follows this heroic sacrifice didn't help things either.