Modifié par Rip504, 22 juin 2011 - 10:28 .
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Modifié par Rip504, 22 juin 2011 - 11:00 .
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Rip504 wrote...
I am sorry if you consider it spam. I consider it my opinion and now you are offending me. Maybe I should report you,but on topic.
Saphra Deden wrote...
Rip504 wrote...
I am sorry if you consider it spam. I consider it my opinion and now you are offending me. Maybe I should report you,but on topic.
We can report eachother. It will be a bonding experience.
It is my "humble" opinion that your opinion is very uninformed and probably not very well thoughtout.
Nobody here is "whining". They are pointing out a very real imbalance in the game and flaw in its design. That's pretty reasonable.
Modifié par Rip504, 22 juin 2011 - 11:13 .
Rip504 wrote...
Edit: Just my very humble(modesty in behavior, attitude, or spirit; not arrogant or prideful) opinion,no need to let it upset you. You will not change my mind either so. Have a nice day.!.
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Rip504 wrote...
Everthing you just said. I disagree with. I see no imbalance nor flaw in the game design.
Saphra Deden wrote...
I get the impression you just feel that
Renegades getting equal representation would some detract from the
awesomeness of playing Paragon.
Nobody here wants anything taken
away from Paragons. They just want equal treatment from the game. They
want to get as much out of it as you do.
Modifié par Rip504, 22 juin 2011 - 11:34 .
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Rip504 wrote...
I have many plathroughs. Maybe you missed that point.
Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 22 juin 2011 - 11:45 .
Saphra Deden wrote...
Rip504 wrote...
I have many plathroughs. Maybe you missed that point.
Well I don't want to play a Paragon Shepard. I shouldn't have to. The main point is that importing a Renegade should be different from a non-import game. As it stands, it largely isn't. This means that for a Renegade the import feature is often wasted. That's bad game design, no way around it.
Rip504 wrote...
Why is it so hard to understand you can
still be a full Renegade and have a living Rachni Queen? Paragons are
not the only one who can have a living Queen. So can a Renegade. etc. If
both parties can have it,where is the gap?
Modifié par Rip504, 22 juin 2011 - 11:49 .
Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 22 juin 2011 - 11:54 .
Modifié par Rip504, 22 juin 2011 - 11:59 .
Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
Just wanted to balance your pics out with a different viewpoint.
P.S. I also know you're 'Mr. less content/validation is just as good' and know full well that gameplay is more than combat (so more content does affect gameplay as well as story to someone roleplaying... or just wanting more content).
We may need to have a discussion over what "gameplay" is so you can back up those claims of yours... (in the most respectful of ways)
Rip504 wrote...
Why is it so hard to understand you can
still be a full Renegade and have a living Rachni Queen? Paragons are
not the only one who can have a living Queen. So can a Renegade. etc. If
both parties can have it,where is the gap?
Modifié par Rip504, 23 juin 2011 - 12:41 .
Rip504 wrote...
In every ME1 playthrough I have ever played I killed Fist. Every Paragon I have,has killed Fist in cold blood. Fist tells you that you will never see or hear from/of him again. Now you are upset in ME2,because he wasn't lying. You knew it was coming. You killed the Queen to keep the galaxy safe. No Queen or reference in ME2. You knew it was coming. Bioware didn't shy away from letting you know,your choices carry weight. Not dead weight. Just saying.
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
Perhaps you're right to feel that way.
Saphra Deden wrote...
Rip504 wrote...
I have many plathroughs. Maybe you missed that point.
Well I don't want to play a Paragon Shepard. I shouldn't have to. The main point is that importing a Renegade should be different from a non-import game. As it stands, it largely isn't. This means that for a Renegade the import feature is often wasted. That's bad game design, no way around it.
Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
As for the previous page/responses.
@Saph
Perhaps you're right to feel that way.
Really though, there were plenty of things I saw throughout the game where I feel BW could have done more, got lazy, or otherwise just missed an opportunity. Those are surely not limited to rewarding renegade players. I think it's quite possible they just didn't figure out anything to replace the goodies that paragons got, for renegade players. You could still see Gianna on Illium if you didn't help her. But if you got her killed, I think they simply didn't think past "if she's dead, she's dead." If BW listens to its fans as they pride themselves in doing so, they may have realized now that maybe they should've done differently.
In short, maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt.
@ tjzsf
I've seen a handful of posts where people say that about the Elnora thing. So yeah, it does indeed happen. If you, or anyone else is different, good for you.
And, you just argued against yourself. Renegade choices can also provide the reward of Intimidate dialogue options. If you killed the rachni queen because you thought it was dangerous, then you're rewarded with not having to deal with the dangerous species. How much more do you need, really? Keep in mind that was classified Spectre stuff, so meeting some guy on the street who thanks you for doing it is not even realisitic.
Rip504 wrote...
Sorry I missed this.:
Lol I didn't mean much offense.
Gameplay is everything that consists of the player having to go through the motions of doing anything.(Plus the specifics. physics etc.)
Making a dialog choice in the story's narrative is considered gameplay. The entire story is being told through & during gameplay. Extra content will be distributed during gameplay.
I agree with more content. I do not agree with Renegades fans being upset over ME2. Sorry,but I just do not.
(I am a fan of ME Renegade & Paragon.)<- That has been the biggest misunderstanding yet.
Now when I said your are "Mr.Pro Renegade" of misunderstanding gameplay. I was slightly joking.
What I mean is,just because you play Paragon or Renegade,doesn't mean you have to pick all of & only "red" & "blue" dialog options. I am saying there is more to gameplay then that.
Rip504 wrote...
Why is it so hard to understand you can
still be a full Renegade and have a living Rachni Queen? Paragons are
not the only one who can have a living Queen. So can a Renegade. etc. If
both parties can have it,where is the gap?
Edit: 1 Last edit before I go. "I'll be back"
A few of My ME2 Renegades have an Alien Council. Why? Because at the end of ME1 when I decided to kill the Alien Council & Da,I found out Humanity was going to take over and dominate an alien galaxy? Didn't make much sense to me,or simply it wasn't the outcome I was looking for. So I reloaded my game(OMG) and saved the Alien Council,because my Shepard can still be a Renegade with an Alien Council. My point? Some of my "Renegades" have an Alien Council and a living Rachni queen. There is no gap. Just different outcomes.
Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 23 juin 2011 - 04:35 .
Rip504 wrote...
My opinion of Renegade players/fans...
Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
@ tjzsf
I've seen a handful of posts where people say that about the Elnora thing. So yeah, it does indeed happen. If you, or anyone else is different, good for you.
And, you just argued against yourself. Renegade choices can also provide the reward of Intimidate dialogue options. If you killed the rachni queen because you thought it was dangerous, then you're rewarded with not having to deal with the dangerous species. How much more do you need, really? Keep in mind that was classified Spectre stuff, so meeting some guy on the street who thanks you for doing it is not even realisitic.
I don't really think the problem is restricted to one particular type of option, basically every type of playstyle should result in a roughly even amount of content. It's possible to do a playthrough of ME1 but then get almost no recognition of your choices in ME2 and that doesn't feel right given the nature of the game and the big deal that was made of save file importing. Probably the best solution would be to have content for every option in the choices that carry over, that would usually only mean three or four alternatives at most (possibly even just two in some cases with the odd different line) and the extra work it would take would be worth it to make sure that all long-term players are rewarded.tjzsf wrote...
Second, "not having to deal with the dangerous species" is a punishment because it witholds both validation and content. It was also being used as an example of how rewarding renegades is intrinsically more difficult than the same for paragons, because killing someone seals off all possible content that could have been derived, especially if it was a secret thing. "Choices are their own reward" is a lazy copout of actually trying to make both sides equally valid playthroughs. Finally, Renegade here refers to "bottom-right", not "red". It also refers to non-interrupts (as there is no choice with interrupts...).
I don't agree that negative Paragon consequences would have any effect on Renegade choices, that just doesn't make sense. I'm also not sure I'm convinced that validation is that important. Having a character tell you that "you did right" doesn't mean that they're right and I think having characters act realistically is more important, even if that means that some people aren't happy with a choice you made. For example, if the council is killed then aliens (particularly on the Citadel) will be wary of humanity but that reaction makes sense in the context and just because they may not like humanity doesn't mean the writers thought you were wrong (if so, why give you the option?). That being said, I don't think that validation would be a bad thing either and there are plenty of characters that could at least mention some of the choices Shepard has made in a positive fashion.tjzsf wrote...
To answer "how much do you really need", +validation, +content, or +negative paragon consequences. Even a few of those would be enough. I can deal with freeing the rachni having only good outcomes if a similar choice (like rewriting the geth) turns out to be bad.
Modifié par Smeelia, 23 juin 2011 - 12:47 .
tjzsf wrote...
Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
@ tjzsf
I've seen a handful of posts where people say that about the Elnora thing. So yeah, it does indeed happen. If you, or anyone else is different, good for you.
And, you just argued against yourself. Renegade choices can also provide the reward of Intimidate dialogue options. If you killed the rachni queen because you thought it was dangerous, then you're rewarded with not having to deal with the dangerous species. How much more do you need, really? Keep in mind that was classified Spectre stuff, so meeting some guy on the street who thanks you for doing it is not even realisitic.
Kindly refrain from reconstructing what I argue into your own image. First off, WRT Elnora, the fact that people reload to kill her off does not invalidate the argument that being paragon should backfire more often.
Second, "not having to deal with the dangerous species" is a punishment because it witholds both validation and content. It was also being used as an example of how rewarding renegades is intrinsically more difficult than the same for paragons, because killing someone seals off all possible content that could have been derived, especially if it was a secret thing. "Choices are their own reward" is a lazy copout of actually trying to make both sides equally valid playthroughs. Finally, Renegade here refers to "bottom-right", not "red". It also refers to non-interrupts (as there is no choice with interrupts; Elnora is only mentioned because she comes closest to a paragon action backfiring).
To answer "how much do you really need", +validation, +content, or +negative paragon consequences. Even a few of those would be enough. I can deal with freeing the rachni having only good outcomes if a similar choice (like rewriting the geth) turns out to be bad.
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