235 réponses à ce sujet

[implodinggoat]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Yes Make liara so good i dont need to play an adept. Unfortunatly that prolly makes sense to bioware.

I can see your perspective; but I don't play as an Adept and if you're not playing a class with access to Warp then biotic squadmates who lack warp become much less useful.

The solution to me seems to be to gimp her singularity and stasis relative to Shepard not to make her powers so one dimensionally focused on crowd control.

From the perspective of an Adept you see Liara without Warp as a useful ally and Liara with Warp and Singularity as an ally which negates the uniqueness of your preffered class.

As someone who prefers to play Soldier or Infiltrator I see stripping Liara of Warp as limiting her character to a role which doesn't compliment my playstyle.  I frequently need a direct damage attack to set things up and a squadmate who lacks such an attack lacks the versatility I recquire.

ALTERNATE PROPOSAL:

What would you Adept players say to giving Liara Overload or some other sort of direct damage attack that can't set up warp explosions like Reave?

Modifié par implodinggoat, 16 juin 2011 - 02:28 .

[Someone With Mass]

If Liara gets Warp as well as Singularity and Stasis in ME3, she'd be overpowered like hell compared to most squadmates that have usually only attacks and defenses against a certain type of enemy.

I think she works just fine if there's another squadmate that can back her up.

[Clonedzero]

well she has singularity and thats crazy powerful. that AND stasis?
now give her warp as well?

why play an adept then? lol

not every character needs defense stripping powers. hell alot of the squaddies in ME2 didnt have warp or overload. jack, samara, grunt, zaeed, tali, jacob.

Liara is extremely powerful even without the defense stripping powers. she's CC. thats perfect, keep some dudes in her singularity, stasis the big baddy. while you mop up the rest of them.

[Bozorgmehr]

implodinggoat wrote...

What would you Adept players say to giving Liara Overload or some other sort of direct damage attack that can't set up warp explosions like Reave?

That would be pretty bad imo.

ME uses a class system for both Shep and squadmates. Designing squadmates who can do everything on their own completely destroys their purpose; squadmates should be specialist who excell at certain roles - not companions you take along simply because you like their character.

There's also the globad CD system which allows using only one power at a time; adding more powers will not change the way squadmates perform in combat, it only reduces the need to think and/or plan which one you'll need for certain missions / versus certain enemies.

[implodinggoat]

Clonedzero wrote...

not every character needs defense stripping powers. hell alot of the squaddies in ME2 didnt have warp or overload. jack, samara, grunt, zaeed, tali, jacob.

Tali had Energy Drain and Samara had Reave.

Grunt was a tank that could barrel over Husks and Zaeed was all about direct damage with his weapons.

and Jacob and Jack were completely worthless.

Liara is not a tank and she's not gonna be laying down a lot of damage with her guns so that puts her in the same category as Jack and Jacob and that's not a good place to be.

Aside from that I really have no desire to spam the hell out of crowd control abilities which ignore defenses, it harkens back to ME1 style crowd control which was way overpowered.

[Sparrow44]

The ability to take out the most powerful enemy in the room for 8-9 seconds, or an ability that will only take off about a third of their defense bar and not kill them?

If you're really destined to have Warp why not play a class that has Warp or bring a squadmate that does?

[Clonedzero]

implodinggoat wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

not every character needs defense stripping powers. hell alot of the squaddies in ME2 didnt have warp or overload. jack, samara, grunt, zaeed, tali, jacob.

Tali had Energy Drain and Samara had Reave.

Grunt was a tank that could barrel over Husks and Zaeed was all about direct damage with his weapons.

and Jacob and Jack were completely worthless.

Liara is not a tank and she's not gonna be laying down a lot of damage with her guns so that puts her in the same category as Jack and Jacob and that's not a good place to be.

Aside from that I really have no desire to spam the hell out of crowd control abilities which ignore defenses, it harkens back to ME1 style crowd control which was way overpowered.

she's got singularity and stasis lol
two of the best abilities in the game. giving her warp would make her better than miranda, and we all know how much more useful miranda was compared to other squadmates in ME2.

[Sailears]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Dude, who cares about Warp? Shes got Lift Orb man!

Yeah!
Forget about warp, Lift Orb sounds super sexy.

In fact the whole power set - singularity, stasis, lift, throw. I have a feeling she'll be on my permanent squad because of that!

[implodinggoat]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

ME uses a class system for both Shep and squadmates. Designing squadmates who can do everything on their own completely destroys their purpose; squadmates should be specialist who excell at certain roles - not companions you take along simply because you like their character.

There's also the globad CD system which allows using only one power at a time; adding more powers will not change the way squadmates perform in combat, it only reduces the need to think and/or plan which one you'll need for certain missions / versus certain enemies.

I also enjoy bringing the right squad member for the right situation.

But; I must reiterate that the role she's filling right now doesn't do my class any good.

If I'm playing a soldier or Infiltrator I'm not going to stop shooting an enemy who's defenses I've stripped with my weapons so Liara can fling them in the air,  I'm going to keep shooting till they drop.  Alternatively if she's using Singularity on a cluster of enemies then that's just going to make it harder for me to line up a precise shot on them and if she's hitting them with stasis then I won't be able to damage them at all.

In essence the sort of constant crowd control you guys plan to use her for is just going to get in the way of a class that focuses on damage output.

I occassionally want to incapacitate or crowd control enemies; but its simply not the focus for a class which is more focused on laying down damage and for that reason I need an ally to have some sort of direct damage capacity so they can still contribute when I don't have a sensible target for crowd control.

Seriously throw me a bone here people.  I like Liara's character a lot; but her current power set doesn't mesh with my play style.  I don't see how giving her a single direct damage power (Warp or otherwise) in place of one of her 4 crowd control powers could do anything; but make her power set more versatile, useful and entertaining.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 16 juin 2011 - 02:59 .

[The Spamming Troll]

i wouldnt even give liara signularity in the first place. its MY signature ability. if liara has singularity and legion and tali get the drone, then i hope we get a new squadmate that allows shepard to cloak or charge too.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Why would they give her a known power over a 'new' one?

[Clonedzero]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i wouldnt even give liara signularity in the first place. its MY signature ability. if liara has singularity and legion and tali get the drone, then i hope we get a new squadmate that allows shepard to cloak or charge too.

jack with charge

garrus/legion/thane with cloak

[Kabanya101]

Does anybody notice how small the class tree is? Only difference from ME2, is they gave everyone a grenade power, ****in stupid. Look at Garrus, nothing changed except grenade power, sma ewith Liara.

Who is the moron that comes up with these class trees? He/she needs a swift kick in the ass.

[The Spamming Troll]

grunt + charge = jesus riding a tyrannosaurus rex

[Clonedzero]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

grunt + charge = jesus riding a tyrannosaurus rex

grunt doesnt have biotic capability.

Wrex with charge though

[implodinggoat]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Why would they give her a known power over a 'new' one?

Because the new one is redundant considering the fact that she already has singularity.

I don't object to new powers; but giving a character who already has Singularity something akin to lift is just a waste.  In ME1 having stasis and lift was useful because you didn't have a shared cooldown; but in ME3 having two powers who are so similar is just a waste.

I'm all for them adding new powers; but only if they're going to be useful.

[Clonedzero]

Kabanya101 wrote...

Does anybody notice how small the class tree is? Only difference from ME2, is they gave everyone a grenade power, ****in stupid. Look at Garrus, nothing changed except grenade power, sma ewith Liara.

Who is the moron that comes up with these class trees? He/she needs a swift kick in the ass.

yeah, screw character consistancy! they should have completely different skillsets in each game!

garrus should be the power biotic this time!

[Good Chaos7]

Clonedzero wrote...

jack with charge

garrus/legion/thane with cloak

DITTO!!<3

[Sparrow44]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

grunt + charge = jesus riding a tyrannosaurus wrex

I'll wait to see what the mechanics of each power behave like first, Garrus has Proximity Mine which isn't a grenade at all, and Lift Orb sounds like a different way for a biotic projectile to be cast that's all.

I'm more curious to see what power sets they give other characters like Ash/Kaidan who I'm sure are gonna have very different sets compared to their ME1 counterparts and also whether they'll give Vanguards/Adepts/Sentinels a bigger biotic arsenal.

[Bozorgmehr]

implodinggoat wrote...

If I'm playing a soldier or Infiltrator I'm not going to stop shooting an enemy who's defenses I've stripped with my weapons so Liara can fling them in the air,  I'm going to keep shooting till they drop.  Alternatively if she's using Singularity on a cluster of enemies then that's just going to make it harder for me to line up a precise shot on them and if she's hitting them with stasis then I won't be able to damage them at all.

In essence the sort of constant crowd control you guys plan to use her for is just going to get in the way of a class that focuses on damage output.

Slapping a Singularity on someone will not block shooting, it becomes much easier when enemies can't fight back.

Powers such as Pull and Sing will ragdoll enemies, doubling weapon damage (it's like ARush/Cloak's 100% damage bonus) - how is this not useful beside the fact that enemies who are floating around are no threat to Shep & Co?

I occassionally want to incapacitate or crowd control enemies; but its simply not the focus for a class which is more focused on laying down damage and for that reason I need an ally to have some sort of direct damage capacity so they can still contribute when I don't have a sensible target for crowd control.

Seriously throw me a bone here people.  I like Liara's character a lot; but her current power set doesn't mesh with my play style.  I don't see how giving her a single direct damage power (Warp or otherwise) in place of one of her 4 crowd control powers could do anything; but make her power set more versatile, useful and entertaining.

You're also wrong about damage; one Heavy Singularity in ME2 will completely strip (drain) armor/barrier/shield of a single (normal rank) enemy (on Insanity) AND get them into the air; Pull and Sing double weapon and power damage; and Throw can potentially insta-kill enemies (including those who will surive a warp explosion).

Liara's current powerset is awesome - she's one of the most versatile characters available (without Warp); she has tools she can use against every enemy. I also enjoy enemies who are flying all over the place a lot more than a single warp explosion

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 16 juin 2011 - 03:11 .

[implodinggoat]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i wouldnt even give liara signularity in the first place. its MY signature ability. if liara has singularity and legion and tali get the drone, then i hope we get a new squadmate that allows shepard to cloak or charge too.

Honestly that's not a terrible idea.  I enjoy getting a chance to use singularity without having to play adept; but it does seem like its causing problems here.

Maybe Liara should have Singularity OR Stasis not both since that gives her two differnt biotic powers which can crowd control enemies with defenses.

[implodinggoat]

Heavy Singularity takes time to strip those defenses (and requires me to fully evolve the power before it will do the damage I need) and as a Soldier or Infiltrator I want them dead NOW since I'm using my high damage output as my crowd control.

The ragdoll bonus from singularity also doesn't do me a lot of good since I can get the same from a headshot and nailing headshots on floating enemies is much harder.

Really its just a difference in play style.  You find constantly crowd controlling enemies entertaining while I prefer to use it more sparingly to save my butt in a tough situation.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 16 juin 2011 - 03:22 .

[Sparrow44]

implodinggoat wrote...

Singularity takes time to strip those defenses. I want them dead NOW.

And Warp is better in this situation? It would take 2-3 straight Warps to kill a basic enemy.

Also you'd rather not be shooting a ragdolled enemy; floating helplessly in the air AND will take double damage from weapons but would rather be shooting someone stood still or behind cover who are shooting you back?

[Smeelia]

This may not be exactly on topic but I'm wondering if "Lift Bomb" is an upgraded version of "Lift" chosen after getting four points (similar to upgrading "Pull" to "Pull Field", for example).  If so then there may be a further choice once you reach maximum level, giving each ability four potential final forms, that might be interesting.

It's possible that Throw could work as a direct damage ability (or almost direct damage) and maybe if there are lots of options for each ability that might be something you could focus on (although that might reduce variety if it just ends up like Warp but a little better/worse).