235 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

CajNatalie wrote...

I think we're focusing on the wrong thing here, people...

1 meter Singularity radius...
1 meter Singularity radius?!

WTF?! That's tiny!
That's what we should be worried about. Not some silly little overrated Warp on a character who's already the perfect controller.

There aren't any points invested in it yet.  Also, note the short recharge time.  7.5 seconds is really fast for an NPC power.

[Les_Carver]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Dude, who cares about Warp? Shes got Lift Orb man!

This

[The Spamming Troll]

Les_Carver wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Dude, who cares about Warp? Shes got Lift Orb man!

This

who cares about lift orb when shes got singularity and stasis. i wouldnt care what other abilities liara has anyways, shes got Fing singularity and stasis! i can almost gaurantee ill never use anything but singularity with liara anyways.

im really not sure if ill need to play an adept in ME3 anymore. all i need is liara.

[Wultor]

you know what... LIARA NEEDS A FULL-AUTOMATIC CAIN WITH 30 ROUND MAGZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ sounds good to me


Edit. I should do a thread about this

Modifié par Wultor, 16 juin 2011 - 05:55 .

[Sparrow44]

Wulfram wrote...

CajNatalie wrote...

I think we're focusing on the wrong thing here, people...

1 meter Singularity radius...
1 meter Singularity radius?!

WTF?! That's tiny!
That's what we should be worried about. Not some silly little overrated Warp on a character who's already the perfect controller.

There aren't any points invested in it yet.  Also, note the short recharge time.  7.5 seconds is really fast for an NPC power.

7.5 seconds for Liara's Singularity? Wow I sure hope that was just for the demo. And yeah being able to increase the radius with every rank (I see 6 of them for each power) would be nice, 1m is pitiful. <_<

[Someone With Mass]

Then again, most of the things showed in the demo were WIPs.

[JayhartRIC]

I think the lift orb is some kind of equipment and won't share the global cooldown. The soldier's equipment is the grenade and Shep threw them back to back.

[Malanek]

CajNatalie wrote...

I think we're focusing on the wrong thing here, people...

1 meter Singularity radius...
1 meter Singularity radius?!

WTF?! That's tiny!

It's basically 1 target unless they are very tightly bunched together. Singularity was really weak at level 1 or 2 in ME2 anyway. It needed to get its duration up before it became good. IMO having a small area of effect is actually better when the duration is also short because holding multple enemies causes it to expire quicker. I much preferred Heavy to Wide as evolutions as well.

Edit: Just checked the radius size in ME2. At rank 1 it is only 1.25 meters, evolved to Heavy only goes to 1.75 and evolved to wide is 3 so it has not been made significantly smaller.

Modifié par Malanek999, 16 juin 2011 - 11:59 .

[Malanek]

As for companions, IMO Bioware need to be careful about giving them too many powers. We only have have 8 hotkeys in ME2 for powers along with the general squadmate Q and E keys. Would Liara be more powerful and flexible if she had Warp instead of Throw? Sure. Is she weak without Warp? No, not if Singularity or Stasis are as powerful as they were in ME2. I kind of think it is better design for her not to have Warp.

[goofyomnivore]

I think Liara will be ME3 Miranda in terms of gameplay. Very powerful and versatile; basically someone you could take on any mission.

She doesn't need Warp. Especially with Singularity and Stasis. I don't know why they would give her a "Lift Orb/Grenade" I don't see how it would be any better than Singularity and overlaps with the same niche. I'm assuming grenade abilities are on a separate cooldown or something.

[Janus Prospero]

I actually brought this very issue up with Christina Norman (Lead Gameplay Designer) a few days ago via twitter:







When it comes down to it, Lift Orb and Singularity seem redundant to me, but we'll see what they do with it. I'd much rather have Warp than Throw to accomodate multiple play styles, but they might still change not only her abilities, but also the way biotics behave against enemies with defenses. March is still a long ways away.

I do agree that Jacob (and Jack to a slightly lesser extent) was fairly useless on higher difficulty playthroughs with a non-biotic class.

Modifié par Janus Prospero, 17 juin 2011 - 01:11 .

[CajNatalie]

On a tangent, I know, but it has to be said...
I disagree with the statements about Jack/Jacob's uselessnesses.

At least as far as Jack's concerned, I've made damn good use of her on Insanity.

Now back to the Singularity width tangent...
Originally a basic minimum Singularity was 4m in radius. It's already been shrunk so much that you can't even match that anymore with a so-called Wide Singularity... now it's possible it could be shrunk further.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 17 juin 2011 - 01:18 .

[BeefoTheBold]

Wait...FIVE skill trees for companion characters? REALLY?

Is that picture right? Man I hope not. That's even more skimped than ME2.

[Someone With Mass]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Wait...FIVE skill trees for companion characters? REALLY?

Is that picture right? Man I hope not. That's even more skimped than ME2.

Keep in mind that the powers in ME3 can evolve multiple times.

[Malanek]

And companions only had 4 skills in ME2 unless I'm misinterpreting what has been said.

[BeefoTheBold]

Someone With Mass wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Wait...FIVE skill trees for companion characters? REALLY?

Is that picture right? Man I hope not. That's even more skimped than ME2.

Keep in mind that the powers in ME3 can evolve multiple times.

By evolve, do you mean that you can change, say, lift into throw? Or do you mean evolve along the lines of how each character in ME2 had a choice of two different power-ups at the end of their specific character class tree?

If it's the latter, then that feels a bit skimpy on power/build selection to me. What if I want a Liara that specializes in different powers than the five listed there? 

[implodinggoat]

Janus Prospero wrote...

When it comes down to it, Lift Orb and Singularity seem redundant to me, but we'll see what they do with it. I'd much rather have Warp than Throw to accomodate multiple play styles, but they might still change not only her abilities, but also the way biotics behave against enemies with defenses. March is still a long ways away.

I do agree that Jacob (and Jack to a slightly lesser extent) was fairly useless on higher difficulty playthroughs with a non-biotic class.

My big concern is just that her current power set is geared entirely towards a playstyle that I don't enjoy.  Namely constant CC.

Every response I get on here about why she doesn't need warp is along the lines of how awesome she'll be for constantly CCing everyone and everything and that just doesn't cut it for me because I don't want to constantly CC everything.

My problem isn't that she can be used for CC its that all of her powers are geared at the exact same purpose and that confines her to a very specific playstyle which I don't particularly enjoy

Aside from that I still haven't gotten a decent response for how anyone imagines they'll be able to find uses for singularity, stasis, lift and throw, all on the same character.  I mean doesn't it make sense to give her something other than CC be it direct damage or some sort of buff or debuff.

[Malanek]

It's about the end step ie Singularity becomes heavy or wide. There will be more choices and you can pick multiple evolutions. If these are even more outlandish it could well be like having different powers to choose from. I like the idea personally. Companions already have the right number of skills for how gameplay works in ME.

[Someone With Mass]

BeefoTheBold wrote...
If it's the latter, then that feels a bit skimpy on power/build selection to me. What if I want a Liara that specializes in different powers than the five listed there? 

Well, I guess you'd have to compensate for it by bringing another squadmate with you.

As for the powers, yes, they can evolve into different shapes and sizes more times than one in ME3.

[Janus Prospero]

CajNatalie wrote...

On a tangent, I know, but it has to be said...
I disagree with the statements about Jack/Jacob's uselessnesses.

At least as far as Jack's concerned, I've made damn good use of her on Insanity.

Well...Jack is slightly better than Jacob because Shockwave actually stuns shielded targets and Squad Warp ammo is arguably one of the better squad ammos.

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Wait...FIVE skill trees for companion characters? REALLY?

Is that picture right? Man I hope not. That's even more skimped than ME2.

What? Squadmates in ME2 had 4 abilities, and one of those had to be unlocked via loyalty quest.

[Someone With Mass]

Actually, Liara has more powers in ME3 than in ME2. In ME2, she only had Singularity, Warp, Asari Scientist (her passive skill) and Stasis. And we don't even know what Lift Orb exactly is yet.

[implodinggoat]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

By evolve, do you mean that you can change, say, lift into throw? Or do you mean evolve along the lines of how each character in ME2 had a choice of two different power-ups at the end of their specific character class tree?

If it's the latter, then that feels a bit skimpy on power/build selection to me. What if I want a Liara that specializes in different powers than the five listed there? 

I really would like to see all the squadmates have at least one power which is restricted by their class; but which is chosen by the player.  That helps keep characters distinct; but gives the player some control over the role they want them to play in combat.

That would also resolve this current argument since I could just give Liara Warp on my own and other players could still stack her with 4 CC powers if they really wanted to.

[BeefoTheBold]

Someone With Mass wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...
If it's the latter, then that feels a bit skimpy on power/build selection to me. What if I want a Liara that specializes in different powers than the five listed there? 

Well, I guess you'd have to compensate for it by bringing another squadmate with you.

As for the powers, yes, they can evolve into different shapes and sizes more times than one in ME3.

I had kind of hoped that wasn't the answer. I was hoping for something along the lines of what DAO had to offer in terms of the customization level. Where, if you don't like Leliana (as an example) you can build Zevran up to be an "archer" type thief to bring along instead.

It's not a deal killer obviously, but I don't like being forced to bring along a character personality that I don't like for the purpose of a power or ability that is unique to them. (Such as how Aveline in DA2 was the only sword+shield based warrior build of the companions and was annoying as hell.)

So as I understand, the powers don't evolve by changing into other powers...they evolve like they did in ME2 where you can decide if you want to make them stronger but smaller in range or have a wider range but not hit as hard.

[BeefoTheBold]

implodinggoat wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

By evolve, do you mean that you can change, say, lift into throw? Or do you mean evolve along the lines of how each character in ME2 had a choice of two different power-ups at the end of their specific character class tree?

If it's the latter, then that feels a bit skimpy on power/build selection to me. What if I want a Liara that specializes in different powers than the five listed there? 

I really would like to see all the squadmates have at least one power which is restricted by their class; but which is chosen by the player.  That helps keep characters distinct; but gives the player some control over the role they want them to play in combat.

That would also resolve this current argument since I could just give Liara Warp on my own and other players could still stack her with 4 CC powers if they really wanted to.

I like this compromise approach. It ensures that a player doesn't get stuck being forced to bring along a character that they don't like, but still adds an element of uniqueness to each character.

[Malanek]

implodinggoat wrote...
My problem isn't that she can be used for CC its that all of her powers are geared at the exact same purpose and that confines her to a very specific playstyle which I don't particularly enjoy

Aside from that I still haven't gotten a decent response for how anyone imagines they'll be able to find uses for singularity, stasis, lift and throw, all on the same character.  I mean doesn't it make sense to give her something other than CC be it direct damage or some sort of buff or debuff.

The bit in bold is a fair point. In ME2 throw was well overshadowed by Singularity. I guess it could have an incredibly short recharge time, although Singularity looks really short on Liara as well. There certainly looks like there is redundancy there but will be interesting to see what they can come up with to mitigate this. Who knows, Throw might deal significantly more damage to protections.

If you have a specific playstyle you don't like there will be some companions you don't like. You can't make every character do everything or they lose their distinction.