52 réponses à ce sujet

[Krocsyldiphic]

Hi

This is about the personal quest of Morrigan. I gave her the black grimoire I found in the Circle Tower.

So if you have not yet done this, don't continue to read.


Morrigan learned her "mothers" secret and that she is to be used as a host for her mother. So she wants me to slay her mother, which is a bit morbid.

But I  just can't say no to morrigan, since she does not say no to me either.

Her mother put up more of a fight than I would have thought, but now she is dead.

Did I do the right thing? I am not even sure Morrigan got everything right. Was it the only way? Flameth sugested to let me go with the grimoire and maybe take Morrigan later. Or maybe never take her.

Who decided different and for what reason?

[sylkwyrm1]

we believe what we want to believe, it is all we ever do.





i killed her because i needed morrigan, i was a good guy, flemeth saved my arse, i'd have rather stayed out of it, and may have done if she hadn't hinted that she may surprise morrigan one day, could be tomorrow for all i knew, she was certainly the type to use that kinda double meaning, and i suspected some unpleasant surprise down the road anyway, a pride demon abomination may have wanted to prevent the blight to save her own arse, but there is always plans within plans with thier type..



but at the end of the day "we believe what we want to believe it is all we ever do" she egged me on to go with my gut so i removed hers.

[Tyrias Greysong]

I choosed letting Flemeth live. Sure, Morrigan was lovely, and I liked the romance, but Flemeth made a fairly good point about her being untrustable. Oh, and she turns to a dragon. Dragons are bloody hard to kill.

Note: I don't think it has an impact on your situation with Morrigan, as it didn't have in mine. I did feel bad when she spoke about me risking myself aganist Flemeth for her, tho.

Modifié par Tyrias Greysong, 20 novembre 2009 - 12:17 .

[Shady314]

Does even Morrigan deserve to be possessed by their crazy mother? I say no. So I helped her. I'd do the same for any of my companions. Is there any reason to NOT kill Flemeth? Other than an incredible hatred of Morrigan. It's not like ridding the world of a centuries old abomination that terrorizes an entire people is a BAD thing.

[sylkwyrm1]

on a side note i really liked talking to her at the point "ahh lovely morrigan has found another to dance to her tune, she does play it so beautifully", it was yet another of many "oh crap what have i put myself in the middle of this time" moments

Modifié par sylkwyrm1, 20 novembre 2009 - 12:23 .

[Krocsyldiphic]

Well, Flameth actually saved you from the Tower....
that gave me an uneasy feeling when I killed her...

Modifié par Krocsyldiphic, 20 novembre 2009 - 12:23 .

[sylkwyrm1]

something to be grateful for, but it was hardly out of wanton kindness, morrigan saved my arse lots of times, did things she disagreed with in order to save people i wanted to save, no contest for me on that score

[Never]

sylkwyrm1 wrote...

on a side note i really liked talking to her at the point "ahh lovely morrigan has found another to dance to her tune, she does play it so beautifully", it was yet another of many "oh crap what have i put myself in the middle of this time" moments

I thought the same thing lol.  I killed her in my first play through, but I agreed to just take the book without a fight this time.  I guess I'll find out if there's a difference later >.<

[Boeresmurf]

its bad to use daughter to live an eternal life, i totally fell for morrigans story.. i wouldnt like to find out that i am just a temporary part of the household, (try watch "the island " funny movie aobut same thing



at the fact that morrigan might leanred some bad stuff for personal gain in the last grimoire.. hey.. it saved my ass back there at the demon fight.



morrigan is a good advisor.

[Shady314]

sylkwyrm1 wrote...

on a side note i really liked talking to her at the point "ahh lovely morrigan has found another to dance to her tune, she does play it so beautifully", it was yet another of many "oh crap what have i put myself in the middle of this time" moments

Everyone always seems to forget Flemeth says "Lovely Morrigan has AT LAST found someone to dance to her tune."
Implying this is a first time for Morrigan. But perhaps not the first time one of her daughters has tried to save themselves. And certainly one of many times someone has come to kill her.

Also when you tell Flemeth you just want the truth. She says "No, no. Far better the lie. Far better the comfort of blankets and shadows and a mother's love."
It made me believe Flemeth has indeed played Morrigan, pretending to be a mother to her while always secretly plotting her doom.

[Krocsyldiphic]

I am yet at my first playthrough, but until now I find Morrigan much more trustworthy than her mother.

Actually, Morrigan is - if anything - too honest.



I don't think Morrigan used me in that case. She just might be wrong in the end.

[Never]

"Also when you tell Flemeth you just want the truth. She says "No, no. Far better the lie. Far better the comfort of blankets and shadows and a mother's love."

It made me believe Flemeth has indeed played Morrigan, pretending to be a mother to her while always secretly plotting her doom."



That's a really good point. I didn't spend as much time as I should have on this quest it seems. I missed a lot

[00wasted00]

I'm just trying to make the choice now actually. I intend to let Flemeth live, mostly because I think she's cool and she kept the Grey Wardens alive. That's pretty important in my book. I don't actually believe she's an abomination, I think the spirit that is with here isn't evil, but who knows.

I came here to find out if anyone had defeated the Flemeth Dragon, and if they had, do they get any sweet loot?

[sylkwyrm1]

and i remeber talking to morrigan about the legends of the witches of the wilds at the beginning when she says "the chasind say flemeth has had many daughters and hunted each of them down to eat thier hearts, perhaps one day she shall eat mine" or words to that effect.. she says it so matter of factly like it was of no concern whether it was true, it really made me think, what kind of upbringing has this poor wretch had, as you get to know her a lot becomes clear, though possession obviously seems to bother her much more than death.

[Shady314]

You get robes for Morrigan which are REALLY good. Also the robes description basically lays out the fact that Flemeth is evil and going to possess Morrigan. So much for your theory. Flemeth only saved you for her own selfish reasons. You don't owe her anything.

Modifié par Shady314, 20 novembre 2009 - 12:39 .

[Shady314]

sylkwyrm1 wrote...

and i remeber talking to morrigan about the legends of the witches of the wilds at the beginning when she says "the chasind say flemeth has had many daughters and hunted each of them down to eat thier hearts, perhaps one day she shall eat mine" or words to that effect.. she says it so matter of factly like it was of no concern whether it was true, it really made me think, what kind of upbringing has this poor wretch had, as you get to know her a lot becomes clear, though possession obviously seems to bother her much more than death.

She never believed them. She thought it was superstitious nonsense from people too frightened of her mother's power. That's why she gets so worked up and yells about what a fool she's been when she finds out.

[Krocsyldiphic]

@wasted:

Well, if she has accumulated wealth and riches in her centuries of living she has not hidden them in the hut in the swamp.

[sylkwyrm1]

00wasted00 wrote...

I'm just trying to make the choice now actually. I intend to let Flemeth live, mostly because I think she's cool and she kept the Grey Wardens alive. That's pretty important in my book. I don't actually believe she's an abomination, I think the spirit that is with here isn't evil, but who knows.
I came here to find out if anyone had defeated the Flemeth Dragon, and if they had, do they get any sweet loot?

after speaking to wynne and rethinking about flemeth, after the whole an abomination becames mad and loses thier humanity thing, i think wynne and flemeth had quite a bit in common on that score, wynne, possessed.. no.. inhabited by a benevolent spirit who allowed wynne to remain wynne,

and flemeth a similar situation, though i believe she is inhabited by a pride demon (seems the most appropriate when you read about the various types and what thier respective abominations are capable of) but what demons want is to experience the world through mortal eyes, and i believe whatever possessed flemeth saw in her a person capable of being thoroughly entertaining to the demons taste of entertainment, without being controlled or forced to do anything, so it stays there and watches, and would probably have a struggle controlling her anyway.

[Shady314]

sylkwyrm1 wrote...

00wasted00 wrote...

I'm just trying to make the choice now actually. I intend to let Flemeth live, mostly because I think she's cool and she kept the Grey Wardens alive. That's pretty important in my book. I don't actually believe she's an abomination, I think the spirit that is with here isn't evil, but who knows.
I came here to find out if anyone had defeated the Flemeth Dragon, and if they had, do they get any sweet loot?

after speaking to wynne and rethinking about flemeth, after the whole an abomination becames mad and loses thier humanity thing, i think wynne and flemeth had quite a bit in common on that score, wynne, possessed.. no.. inhabited by a benevolent spirit who allowed wynne to remain wynne,

and flemeth a similar situation, though i believe she is inhabited by a pride demon (seems the most appropriate when you read about the various types and what thier respective abominations are capable of) but what demons want is to experience the world through mortal eyes, and i believe whatever possessed flemeth saw in her a person capable of being thoroughly entertaining to the demons taste of entertainment, without being controlled or forced to do anything, so it stays there and watches, and would probably have a struggle controlling her anyway.

When I spoke to Wynne we agreed that what made someone an abomination was their loss of humanity. How could you know who was in control with the truly powerful abominations? Only their actions can show you. Flemeth's actions are not the actions of a benevolent spirit. Even if she is a terrible human being and not an abomination (though I'm pretty certain she is an abomination) she's still worth killing.

[sylkwyrm1]

it was the comment about the madness that stood out to me, i've only played it once so far so i don't have every single line of dialogue memorised, but "we believe what we want to believe it is all we ever do" that one i remember. there's probably a comma in there somewhere though

Modifié par sylkwyrm1, 20 novembre 2009 - 12:51 .

[Shady314]

sylkwyrm1 wrote...
it was the comment about the madness that stood out to me,

And you don't think Flemeth is mad?  She played games with the Templars that came to kill her using her own daughter as bait. She sent her daughter with you telling her to make sure to get knocked up so they could raise a god baby together but not mentioning she'd then take over her body. She is not a nice woman. All the evidence in the game backs it up. She doesn't deny it. She isn't offended by the accusation. She tries to make basically the same deal with you that the desire demon wants to make for Connor. Let me live and I'll take over the boy/Morrigan LATER. When they have grown in power.

[sylkwyrm1]

i've said from the beginning she was not a nice woman, the so called acts of kindness, saving you, rasing morrigan have all been for selfish ends, but my -belief- onconfirmed in any way is that flemeth is herself, and herself is an evil old witch, with a demon inside her enjoying the spectacle of this conniving twisted old womans journey through the centuries, that is what i like believing

considering a possessed being can apparently live forever, sure they start to look dead.. witness sophia in wardens keep, i think her method of living forever is more to keep the human in her happy.

Modifié par sylkwyrm1, 20 novembre 2009 - 01:04 .

[Shady314]

sylkwyrm1 wrote...

i've said from the beginning she was not a nice woman, the so called acts of kindness, saving you, rasing morrigan have all been for selfish ends, but my -belief- onconfirmed in any way is that flemeth is herself, and herself is an evil old witch, with a demon inside her enjoying the spectacle of this conniving twisted old womans journey through the centuries, that is what i like believing

considering a possessed being can apparently live forever, sure they start to look dead.. witness sophia in wardens keep, i think her method of living forever is more to keep the human in her happy.

But Wynne is dying...

Oh I know we agree Flemeth needs to bite it. Just discussing the interesting idea of what kind of abomination she is or isn't.

I don't know if a demon especially a super powerful one would be content just going along for the ride. Taking a backseat role is not something I can imagine a PRIDE demon doing unless it serves a greater purpose.

[sylkwyrm1]

yeah her desire to be young and beautiful again and again could be an aspect of the pride demon i thought that before, or her apparent many sexual exploits could be the work of a desire demon, though they seem a bit weak in my mind

[pmpage]

Krocsyldiphic wrote...

Well, Flameth actually saved you from the Tower....
that gave me an uneasy feeling when I killed her...

Pretty sure she did save your arse, and her turning into a dragon does support that (after all it's mentioned that she turned in a giant eagle and plucked you to safety). A dragon would have done that a *lot* more easily than an eagle