52 réponses à ce sujet

[Shady314]

Morrigan saves you too so pick one because one IS going to die.

[GregorLightbringer]

Krocsyldiphic wrote...

Well, Flameth actually saved you from the Tower....
that gave me an uneasy feeling when I killed her...

Here's some food for thought to ease your mind: Even the most EVIL of people can do "good" things. The difference is that Evil does good things for their own interests. Good people do good things for the sake of goodness or unselfishness or any other "ness" you can think of. 

[Obadiah]

I wish you could give Flemeth's Grimoire to someone in the Circle tower (or anyone really) to analyze.

[Bhatair]

Well, if you inspect the robes you find with the Grimoire it pretty much says they were to be used to sap Morrigan of her will and allow possession.

[Obadiah]

Bhatair wrote...

Well, if you inspect the robes you find with the Grimoire it pretty much says they were to be used to sap Morrigan of her will and allow possession.

Yeah yeah, but c'mon man! Those two witches use manipulation like it's drinking a glass of water. As someone else said there are plots and plots within the their plots. Who knows what to believe. Best to get an outside opinion on that Grimoire if possible.

Oh well...

[Kabraxal]

I'm just wondering... there are parallels between Flemeth and Morrigan that disturb me. It goes far beyond a mere daughter/mother resemblance, if they were ever "related". The facial features, the eyes, and several comments just strike me as rather disturbing indications of their relationship.



At one point, Morrigan and Leliana discuss Flemeth and old stories. During this, Morrigan mentions that Flemeth not only told her of her horrible deeds, but somehow expected the same from Morrigan... and this strikes me as odd considering what Flemeth supposedly plans. Add this in with Flemeth's ability to morph into a dragon and the demonic interference in her life... well, and the fact that if you diretly ask Flemeth about posession, she laughs and indicates something else is going on... all this points to something far more significant than Morrigan being groomed for more than simple posession.

[LightSabres]

Of course there is more going on - neither Morrigan or Flemmeth tell the PC what the real plan is - to capture the soul of an old God in the body of a baby. Morrigan even hints about it in an early conversation. There is a point where you can ask Morrigan for a reward for getting Flemmeths book for her and she says something to the effect of "I will be repaying my debt to you later"



Also keep in mind when killing Flemmeth - Even Morrigan doesn't think she will stay dead. She wants Flemmeth dead to "buy her enough time to learn how to defend herself". So anybody feeling bad for killing her shouldn't feel THAT bad. You should only be worried if you think that Flemmeth is going to come back for revenge....

[T0paze]

I never did that quest, actually. I thought it was dishonest to steal from Irving. Actually, I have a major problem with stealing in RPGs, even thought it's considered almost customary.

[LightSabres]

Shady314 wrote...

Everyone always seems to forget Flemeth says "Lovely Morrigan has AT LAST found someone to dance to her tune."
Implying this is a first time for Morrigan.

I had doubts when seeing this line from Flemmeth too.  But then she erased all doubts about killing her after she tries to negotiate with me to take the book.  She says at the end "You get to keep Morrigan...  For now"

Then I knew Morrigan was telling the truth and slaughtered that evil female dog.

OF course, if you want to be suspicious you could think that since Morrigan and Flemmeth planned the God Baby all along maybe the plan was to get you to kill Flemmeth too?  Maybe her spirit will merge with the God baby in Morrigans womb?

[Fleapants]

T0paze wrote...

I never did that quest, actually. I thought it was dishonest to steal from Irving. Actually, I have a major problem with stealing in RPGs, even thought it's considered almost customary.

You bought the game. It's your pixels

[kevinwastaken]

Flemeth doesn't hurt anyone but Templars (in self defense) and the occasional Chasind folk (sex... ugh) so she doesn't really deserve to die.

Never the less I slaughtered that old hag good!

Modifié par kevinwastaken, 11 décembre 2009 - 05:22 .

[Vajarra]

mynameisdanza wrote...

sylkwyrm1 wrote...

on a side note i really liked talking to her at the point "ahh lovely morrigan has found another to dance to her tune, she does play it so beautifully", it was yet another of many "oh crap what have i put myself in the middle of this time" moments

I thought the same thing lol.  I killed her in my first play through, but I agreed to just take the book without a fight this time.  I guess I'll find out if there's a difference later >.<

Makes no difference as far as I know. I've just taken the book and lied to Morrigan every time... and she always buys it

[LightSabres]

kevinwastaken wrote...

Flemeth doesn't hurt anyone but Templars (in self defense) and the occasional Chasind folk (sex... ugh) so she doesn't really deserve to die.

Never the less I slaughtered that old hag good!

I'll slaughter her every playthrough.  She's worth great XP

[Aedan_Cousland]

I decided to kill Flemeth because there was at least the possibility that she intended to possess Morrigan, and it was made fairly clear that it wouldn't be a permanent death for Flemeth. The biggest reason not to kill Flemeth is because she saved your life at Ostagar, even if it was for own reasons and not out of any genuine concern for your well-being. But since Flemeth won't be permanently dead, killing her isn't really a betrayal.

[Kabraxal]

By something more, I don't mean as in Flemeth and Morrigan working together. Morrigan's reaction to the Grimoire and its contents are far more "shocked" than for something like posession or baby killing.



Also, her reactions at the end game are quite... odd... her insistence at running if you refuse the her is quite confusing. She stays if she concieves, regardless if there is love or friendship involved but she runs if she does not, regardless of love or friendship. I'm beginning to wander if Flemeth and Morrigan have direct ties to the Arch-demons or the taint. Perhaps Flemeth and Morrigan are kin to the Old Gods (or the gods themselves). It is the only reason I can think why she would flee before the final battle... she fears the Taint for some reason.



Morrigan is not only directly taken from the mythological god of war/fertility, but things such as Flemeth's stance on Darkspawn, the magical abilities of both women, the eyes (granted, maybe golden eyes are more normal in that world), the intent with the child, and various other things all resonate with a certain connection with the Arch-demon.

[Spaceweed10]

Krocsyldiphic wrote...

Well, Flameth actually saved you from the Tower....
that gave me an uneasy feeling when I killed her...

She had her own agenda, so don't feel aggrieved.

You really need some lessons regarding women...

Modifié par Spaceweed10, 11 décembre 2009 - 08:33 .

[Vegielamb]

I've always had the impression that the story was more metaphor than fact. Hence the reason it's instructions for raising a daughter. What do dragons eat? Maidens. What does Flemeth turn into? A dragon. What was she after? Morrigan's heart. It's about raising a child to turn out just like her thus making her immortal. At some point the daughter realizes she has become the person her mother was, and starts to call herself Flemeth. This story is playing on the whole maiden/matron/crone concept and that fact that Morrigan is a triune celtic godess.

Modifié par Vegielamb, 11 décembre 2009 - 09:00 .

[menasure]

who can truly understand the work of gods?

i like to see the whole thing is like a big judgment call because as far as i can see neither one of them poses an immediate threat to Ferelden and both are good to have on your team instead of the other side during the current bligth.

the chantry would without a doubt call them evil but they might even be the most misunderstood good characters in game.

[cutieyum]

Shady314 wrote...
Also when you tell Flemeth you just want the truth. She says "No, no. Far better the lie. Far better the comfort of blankets and shadows and a mother's love."
It made me believe Flemeth has indeed played Morrigan, pretending to be a mother to her while always secretly plotting her doom.

That cinched Flemeth's death for me. I had explored all of Morrigan's conversation trees regarding the Grimoire, before and after giving it to her, and then prompted her once more about Flemeth before seeking her out and Morrigan responses ringed true to me everytime. Morrigan explains how the Grimoire is a record of the training of each daughter and the rituals for later possession, and Morrigan says that she finally understands her purpose and happenings of childhood.

I remember a friend who had a beloved pet, which was raised for culinary purposes, no matter how precious and fun it was to be played with. A year later, I refused the taste the soup made with the leftovers of such pet. To be the object of abuse and love at the same time is not inconceivable.

There's also the issue that Flemeth is fabled to be very old and powerful. Perhaps, the old crone has indeed "plans within plans," no matter the choices of the Warden, Flemeth will obtain her triumph.

Modifié par cutieyum, 11 décembre 2009 - 09:23 .

[SheffSteel]

There are really only two questions to consider: whether a Morrigan possessed by Flemeth is going to be any less obnoxious, and whether she'd be better in bed.

[cutieyum]

Vegielamb wrote...

I've always had the impression that the story was more metaphor than fact. Hence the reason it's instructions for raising a daughter. What do dragons eat? Maidens. What does Flemeth turn into? A dragon. What was she after? Morrigan's heart. It's about raising a child to turn out just like her thus making her immortal. At some point the daughter realizes she has become the person her mother was, and starts to call herself Flemeth. This story is playing on the whole maiden/matron/crone concept and that fact that Morrigan is a triune celtic godess.

I liked that explanation. It fits with "Some things are worth perserving." Afterall, humans pass on more than their DNA during life, we pass on experiences, memes, ideas, to our contemporaries and next generations. Perhaps the soul of the Dragon of Beauty is worth preserving. Why should they die, be hunted or tainted?

[mousestalker]

"We do what we must because we can."



Flemeth = GlaDos.

[Kabraxal]

I hope not... I want my cake!

[LightSabres]

Kabraxal wrote...

By something more, I don't mean as in Flemeth and Morrigan working together. Morrigan's reaction to the Grimoire and its contents are far more "shocked" than for something like posession or baby killing.

Also, her reactions at the end game are quite... odd... her insistence at running if you refuse the her is quite confusing. She stays if she concieves, regardless if there is love or friendship involved but she runs if she does not, regardless of love or friendship. I'm beginning to wander if Flemeth and Morrigan have direct ties to the Arch-demons or the taint. Perhaps Flemeth and Morrigan are kin to the Old Gods (or the gods themselves). It is the only reason I can think why she would flee before the final battle... she fears the Taint for some reason.

Morrigan is not only directly taken from the mythological god of war/fertility, but things such as Flemeth's stance on Darkspawn, the magical abilities of both women, the eyes (granted, maybe golden eyes are more normal in that world), the intent with the child, and various other things all resonate with a certain connection with the Arch-demon.

I just had a thought.  She tells you flat out that Survival is everything right?  What if there is more than one way to capture the old gods soul?  Maybe Morrigan has a 'Plan B" that she needs to do if the PC refuses her.  Maybe she uses illusion on you and takes what she wants that way?  I've read elsewhere that as long as you sleep with her - ritual or no - she has a baby.

[Kabraxal]

I don't know,it seems odd since neither Warden is certain to survive and at least one is certain to die. So that "Plan B" is a shot in the dark at best.