232 réponses à ce sujet

[Atakuma]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

People by an overwhelming majority play human warriors. That's all we need anymore because that's all you Newfans want.

Human warrior. Most popular race/class combo by miles and miles ... I hate all of you NewFans so much.

Grow up.

[Mickespel]

What we need are two different type of games, one action filled Mass Effect style with an heroic voiced protagonist.

The other game are for deep roleplaying, several selectable races and released with a toolset. Protagonist are typically mute. Players are encouraged to write their own quests, worlds, items and even more playable races. This type of game also supports multiplayer to allow for persistent worlds.

Both type of game should share the same game engine and be able to use the same resources to a large extent. Do this and we will have maximum freedom, want to play a hero like Shepard (Hawke) in Thedas, sure there is a game for that. Want to create your own party and run in a user created space station in the Universe of Mass Effect, go ahead, the options would be there.

In short:
Action game, limited choices, little mod support. voiced protagonist, dialog wheel.
RPG: Maximum choices, modding strongly encouraged. Mute protagonist, no dialog wheel. This would be like (Never Winter Nights).

[MonkeyLungs]

Atakuma wrote...

MonkeyLungs wrote...

People by an overwhelming majority play human warriors. That's all we need anymore because that's all you Newfans want.

Human warrior. Most popular race/class combo by miles and miles ... I hate all of you NewFans so much.

Grow up.

Yes ma'am!

[bebop50]

Mickespel wrote...

What we need are two different type of games, one action filled Mass Effect style with an heroic voiced protagonist.

The other game are for deep roleplaying, several selectable races and released with a toolset. Protagonist are typically mute. Players are encouraged to write their own quests, worlds, items and even more playable races. This type of game also supports multiplayer to allow for persistent worlds.

Both type of game should share the same game engine and be able to use the same resources to a large extent. Do this and we will have maximum freedom, want to play a hero like Shepard (Hawke) in Thedas, sure there is a game for that. Want to create your own party and run in a user created space station in the Universe of Mass Effect, go ahead, the options would be there.

In short:
Action game, limited choices, little mod support. voiced protagonist, dialog wheel.
RPG: Maximum choices, modding strongly encouraged. Mute protagonist, no dialog wheel. This would be like (Never Winter Nights).

Maybe it depends on where the story is going, also there will never be 2 types of game the age of the mute/emotionless protagonist is done as well as not having no dialog wheel, everyone wants more choices. Modding and Toolsets are PC why they stop giving it to you is known only by Bioware <no profit in it more than likely>

[Destr1er]

If you want that action game, play Mass Effect.
This series was the successor to Baldur's Gate. One of the greatest RPGs ever. It got people who didn't like PC or RPGs into the genre.
And now we have this ADHD abortion of a game that is marketed at the types of people who comment on youtube.

[outlaw1109]

DA2, IMO, failed in its execution. It was a *generally* good idea, but it just fell flat because they tried to use broken data from origins.

They actually said that a vast majority of people started characters that they never finished and that this was one of the deciding factors in creating a human protagonist. They didn't bother asking *why* people were starting new characters all of the time, but I imagine it wasn't what they assumed (given the amount of whining about the human limitation.)

If they want to stick to the one year dev. cycle, they should develop a game that's about 10hrs long. Release mod tools and let the community embellish on the storyline/gameplay.

[Mickespel]

outlaw1109 wrote...

DA2, IMO, failed in its execution. It was a *generally* good idea, but it just fell flat because they tried to use broken data from origins.

They actually said that a vast majority of people started characters that they never finished and that this was one of the deciding factors in creating a human protagonist. They didn't bother asking *why* people were starting new characters all of the time, but I imagine it wasn't what they assumed (given the amount of whining about the human limitation.)

If they want to stick to the one year dev. cycle, they should develop a game that's about 10hrs long. Release mod tools and let the community embellish on the storyline/gameplay.

The origin stories, that in itself are a damn good reason to start anew. I want more and deeper origins. Besides, I didn't really like to go fighting that archdemon that much, I wanted to explore the world but the main quest stood in the way. I liked Morrowind so much because I was in no hurry to advance the main quest, just explore and do lot's and lot's of sidequests. DA2 specifically took out the parts I liked with Origins and added in stuff I never asked for.

[dcinroc]

bebop50 wrote...
Maybe it depends on where the story is going, also there will never be 2 types of game the age of the mute/emotionless protagonist is done as well as not having no dialog wheel, everyone wants more choices. Modding and Toolsets are PC why they stop giving it to you is known only by Bioware <no profit in it more than likely>

The pre-set voiced protagonist might be all the rage now, but it also has severe limits. Most of the existing voiced protagonists are basically different versions of a common theme. The more and more these kinds of games are produced, the more monotonous they will become. Of course, just like in movies, some will be better than others.

Mute does not necessarily = emotionless, unless one is allergic to written dialogue. Imagination is a feature, not a bug.

There is a significant segment of the gaming population who DON'T like pre-set characters and prefer to create their own. Bioware and other companies may choose to ignore them, but they won't just disappear. Other companies (like Bethesda) will certainly be glad to cater to them.

Free mods compete with for-profit DLC. Companies that depend on revenue from DLC as part of their business model are likely to discontinue support for modding (just as Bioware has done).

[UnspokenSoul22]

I'd rather have a voiced protagonist than choose from different races for my main character. Disregarding my opinion, I would be extremely surprised if BW puts race selection in DA3.

They only put the choice to pick race in DA:O because it was the "first prologue", as I like to call it. DA:O wanted to show everyone the backgrounds of every kind of person in the universe. Now, after DA2, a.k.a. the "second prologue", they probably won't go back to that, simply because gamers know about the dwarfs and the elves.

While DA3 might not focus on Hawke or the Grey Wardens, they surely will be included somehow.

[Destr1er]

No, they did it because it was the successor to games like Baldurs Gate, and Neverwinter Nights.
Games where you had a huge choice in terms of race, class, etc.

DA2 was a quick cash and many of the "features" were actually put in place due to time constraints.

[Brahox]

I hope so. I'd really like to be a Qunari.

[themonty72]

I want to be Qunari also.... a sarrabas, however u spell it.

[outlaw1109]

First Prologue...I believe the word you're looking for is "Prequel".

It wasn't about "knowing" of any race. They were there to put some variety (as is the case with MOST RPG's). Like I said before, they were removed from DA2 because player data from the first game lead the dev's to believe Human's are the most popular of the races. Regardless of how true that actually is, that's the reason they did it.

Post-release, they seem to be acknowledging DA2's faults...

[In Exile]

I'm really opposed to multiple races, unless the game is going to be significantly different for their inclusion. So far, Bioware hasn't even come close to being able to execute branching paths, so I would rather they invest all their energy into building a strong plot around a single protagonist with a fixed background.

[Kabanya101]

I don't care about races or about Hawke, I want *MY* Warden back, level 35 Warrior who could cut down anything single-handed. SCREW HAWKE. Guy blew ass. I played DA2 a grand total of 3 days, and then I traded it in at gamestop.

A new character I can deal with, hell I could play as any race, even Dwarves ugh, but what I couldn't stand was the fact the guy wasn't a Grey Warden. The whole basis of DR:O was to be a Grey Warden and save the land, not a litte runt running around a city an ENTIRE game. I didn't even beat DA2 or get into Act 3 it was that bad.

Though Merrill and new combat system were a plus.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

I'm really opposed to multiple races, unless the game is going to be significantly different for their inclusion. So far, Bioware hasn't even come close to being able to execute branching paths, so I would rather they invest all their energy into building a strong plot around a single protagonist with a fixed background.

I would agree that a game with a tightly woven plot with the PC as a central character cannot accommodate multiple races unless the races aren't meaningfully different from each other.

However, I think the best solution to that is to abandon the idea that the game needs a tightly woven plot with the PC as a central character.

Then we can have multiple races.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I would agree that a game with a tightly woven plot with the PC as a central character cannot accommodate multiple races unless the races aren't meaningfully different from each other.

However, I think the best solution to that is to abandon the idea that the game needs a tightly woven plot with the PC as a central character.

Then we can have multiple races.

Actually, it's just that point I disagree with you on. I think to have multiple races, we need to abandon a world where races are treated differently, or racial differences are recognized, even if the central plot isn't based around the PC. Because logically, if different races are treated differently, the plot has to differ for different race PCs.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Actually, it's just that point I disagree with you on. I think to have multiple races, we need to abandon a world where races are treated differently, or racial differences are recognized, even if the central plot isn't based around the PC. Because logically, if different races are treated differently, the plot has to differ for different race PCs.

Not if the PC's race isn't relevant to the plot.

In a game where the PC doesn't need to attract followers, or influence people's decisions, I think they could handle disparate races with exactly the sort of approach they used in DAO - a handful a throwaway lines.

Alternately, you could set the bulk of your game in a part of your world where the races aren't treated differently.  Recall in DAO - the Avvars treated everyone like strangers, because everyone was a stranger.  Since you couldn't play an Avvar, you were just restricted to races that are treated similarly.  You could do the same thing in the Deep Roads as long as you're not allowed to play a Dwarf (even forcing you to play a Dwarf wouldn't work, unless you also either required or prohibited playing the casteless).

Allowing race selection doesn't require they allow a completely unrestricted race/background selection.

[2010heath]

I really am into the dalish. so I hope that it is possible to play as one.

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

People by an overwhelming majority play human warriors. That's all we need anymore because that's all you Newfans want.

Human warrior. Most popular race/class combo by miles and miles ... I hate all of you NewFans so much.

Elitism is such a downer, man. be kind, rewind!

[furryrage59]

I'd rather have race selection and a silent character with a wealth of option than a voiced hawke or whatever, eurh. I'd literally vomit (wouldn't buy, no chance at all)

[outlaw1109]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

In a game where the PC doesn't need to attract followers, or influence people's decisions, I think they could handle disparate races with exactly the sort of approach they used in DAO - a handful a throwaway lines.

Allowing race selection doesn't require they allow a completely unrestricted race/background selection.

QFT


A few VO lines from various NPC's could be the difference between the races.

A good example, off the top of my head, would be what they did in ME and the differences between Colonist, Spacer, and Earthborn.


People trying to justify the limitation with the whole, "it costs too much" line when its something a simple as a few extra lines of dialogue/MAYBE slight tweaks to cutscenes.

[Sidney]

Mickespel wrote...

The other game are for deep roleplaying, several selectable races and released with a toolset.

Like so much from the RPG master race types this is silly. Race selection in BG2 or DAO certainly didn't add a "deeper role playing" experience - unless you think being able to pick hair color and chin depth is also part of role playing. In fact, race selection essentailly spent the game slapping you in the face with how meaningless it was. Race selection allows you to be wide but not deep. BG2 didn't even acknowledge the race and all DAO did was toss in a few lines about your elf or dwarf but nothing that had anything to do with role playing.

In fact the best "role playing" experiences have been single race selections: PST, KoTOR, ME1, Fallout 1/2/3/NV and since people keep slobbering over it TW2. I'd love to see an Elven protagonist in a DAO game and have the experience structured around what it means to be an elf in Thedas because that is clearly very different than what it means to be human BUT you can't include all that content if it might just be wasted because someone icks a different race at the start.

[Sidney]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

In a game where the PC doesn't need to attract followers, or influence people's decisions, I think they could handle disparate races with exactly the sort of approach they used in DAO - a handful a throwaway lines.

.

Given how they set up the races in DAO it will always be relevant because the PC always has to interact with the world. It would be like saying in a LA Noire setting that selecting a black character isn't relevant to the plot. The race selection is always going to be material to any story in that time and setting. In something like ME it clearly isn't relevant but if you set up a world where race does matter than you really do need to deal with it and do it is a way that is a lot more useful than silly throwaway lines like DAO which was insulting to the background they set for the races.

[outlaw1109]

Sidney wrote...

Given how they set up the races in DAO it will always be relevant because the PC always has to interact with the world. It would be like saying in a LA Noire setting that selecting a black character isn't relevant to the plot. The race selection is always going to be material to any story in that time and setting. In something like ME it clearly isn't relevant but if you set up a world where race does matter than you really do need to deal with it and do it is a way that is a lot more useful than silly throwaway lines like DAO which was insulting to the background they set for the races.

I disagree with this.

In Origins, the people that knew you were a slum-elf, treated you as such...or at least acknowledged it.  Same if you were a casteless dwarf.  EVERYONE isn't going to call you "alienage elf" because they don't know that for sure.  As an elf, you do still encounter some NPC's that mistake you for a servant.  Most people know, however, that you're a Warden and that trumps any title, it seems.