82 réponses à ce sujet

[Bogsnot1]

Gatt9 wrote...
Every Microsoft OS gets that statement...
Win 3.1- "It's a horrible OS,  it uses too many resources and it's slower than DOS!"
Win 95- "It's a horrible OS,  it uses a ton more resources than DOS!"
Win 98- "It's a horrible OS,  it uses more resources than Win95!"
Win ME- "It's a horrible unstable OS and it uses more resources!" (This was actually true)
Win XP "It's a horrible OS,  it uses more resource than Win98 and it's all just graphics!"
Win Vista- "It's a horrible OS,  it uses more resources than WinXP" (Vista was a bit iffy,  but many people just didn't understand what it was doing,  such as preloading frequently used programs)
Win 7- "It's a horrible OS,  it uses more resources than WinXP and it's all just graphics!"

Generally speaking,  I've found that many of the people making these statements fall into one of 3 groups...

1.  Someone who refuses to upgrade their 386SX16 and thinks all software should still run on it.
2.  Someone who doesn't know anything about computers and just repeats what they've read on the internet,  usually with $'s in place of S's.
3.  A young computer geek who thinks it's "Cool" to hate Microsoft,  and generally thinks the whole world should be Open Source running on Linux. 

Honestly,  note the people who're currently attacking Windows 7 don't recognize that it can't access memory higher than 4 gigabytes,  lacks support for most current transfer protocols,  and many other features.  It's just "It's a bloated blight on society and they're going to force us all to buy it!"

Maybe I'm silly,  but I like being able to access all 8 gigabytes of my memory.  I also like my improved threading,  improved support for multiple cores,  and many other features.

I accept it can address more than 4gb of ram, but quite frankly, I havent found anything that really requires it. If i did, I would be running XP/64. I have my XP box tweaked and tuned to the point where it runs quicker and smoother than my flatmates Win7 box , which has higher grade hardware. The one thing that his does better, is DVD encoding, and given thats not one of my interests, there is no point in me upgrading my box to run Win7.
I also have it set up with Multi-OS capabilities, with XP, BSD, Ubuntu, and OSX. Each OS has its own unique advantages, and with Windows, its gaming.
The only reason why I dislike Microsoft, is quite legitimate. Their bloat forces you to upgrade your hardware with each release, but I can run the latest version of linux on an old 386 just as well as an old version of linux.

[Babli]

Kinect is absolutely useless gimmick, games on it will always be either casual or just bad. Or both.

I know what I am talking about, I own it.

Will you play ME 3 with it? Is it more comfortable or more fun to talk to television when you could just press a button? Same with combat orders. Its tedious, pointless. It may be fun for one hour but after that you just return to the good old, comfortable gamepad and wont bother with Kinect anymore.

[88mphSlayer]

wizardryforever wrote...

Well I don't play Mass Effect on PC, nor do I have Kinect for my Xbox (I still have the old model), so maybe I'm too distanced from the issue.  But it seems to me like a lot of people hate it just because it is different.  I'd have to see it in action before bashing it as "gimmicky," especially since the Wii made Nintendo massive profits using this technology.  Motion capture is obviously here to stay, and people need to get used to the idea that new games will use it more and more as time passes.

As for ME3, I don't know how well it will work with the current interface, and how useful it would truly be to use audio commands instead of a button press.  I'm indifferent myself, though part of me doesn't like development resources being used on something that I'll never use.  Still, lots of people have Kinect now, and it is very likely that Microsoft offered some incentive to EA or Bioware to develop Kinect-capable games.  *shrug*

it works, it doesn't have high fidelity in the areas that say... wii motion plus or psmove have, but it has overall good fidelity with motion tracking that everyone i've met who is a casual gamer loves the kinect just as much if not more than the wii now, so microsoft hit a gold mine with this one... as for "core" gamers like myself? there really is an issue with it, if you enjoy experiences like dance central or kinect sports or whatever, fine, but if you don't then you're SOL until indie devs get their hands on it and make games just for the sensor

so no, it's not a gimmick at all, i think people use that term for anything that they don't like which isn't what the word actually means

[LPPrince]

You guys really need to lighten up a little.

All this Kinect hate is completely unwarranted. All this incessant bashing is fruitless in the end of the day.

Never hate something unless you know for a fact that its a horrible horrible thing.

And before you say that Kinect is a horrible horrible thing, its not.

What Kinect does is that it adds an additional way to integrate yourself into the experience of playing a game.

You might find that jumping around in front of a television screen(or in this case, a PC) ridiculous, but guess what- MANY others don't think the way you do. There's a reason that the Wii, Kinect, and Move have sold so well. Its long past being a gimmick.

It adds a way to immerse yourself. Say when playing Kinect Adventures. If that game wasn't a Kinect game, you'd be sitting on your butt, moving your controller's thumbsticks or your computer's mouse to move a character up, down, left, or right.

Now, you can set that down, get up, and become the character on screen. Now you've got to work to do it, which is a vastly refreshing change to the "sit on my butt all day" approach of gaming that's been around for years.

And in Mass Effect 3, you don't even need to get off your seat.

Any physical movement will take only the simple use of your hands to say, navigate the Galaxy Map, or perhaps hack a module. No real need for physical movement there.

Then consider the voice recognition. Instead of pressing buttons to issue commands, now you can actually ISSUE COMMANDS. The way its done in the real world, with your voice.

For those of you who crave as much realism in these games as possible(while still keeping it fun), this is a godsend for you.

You don't even need to shout. At a good 5-6 feet away from the sensor, you can talk relatively low and it'll still hear you. Since it recognizes voices, someone else issuing a command won't mess with your game since its only taking orders from YOU, the voice its set to take orders from.

No physical movement there either.

So, PC Players- Instead of keeping such a low and pessimistic view of Kinect, how about actually giving it a chance?

And by chance, I don't even mean using it. I mean not automatically putting it "beneath you" to try it.

For christ's sake, its no different from a Razer Onza controller in the regard that it allows you to do something different, albeit more than a modified controller would.

Don't be so attached to your controllers and mice. Don't keep your butts magnetized to your seats.

Kinect is NOT THAT BAD.

And hell, if it does get working on the PC, I'm glad for those of you who wish to try it and like it.

Those who try it and don't? Well, at least you tried it.

But don't rag on motion control and voice recognition just because you already set yourself up to hate it.

When you put unbelievable standards and requirements on it, of course its gonna suck.

Don't be so holy and actually give it a shot. I promise that most of you won't think its as bad as most of you are making it out to be.

Me, I'm a hardcore gamer. When Kinect came out, it didn't interest me and I didn't get one because it was all for casuals.

Fast forward to the first day of E3 2011, and THEN I knew it was a worthy purchase. And ever since, I've enjoyed the HELL out of it. Plus, can't complain with extra exercise.

So no, its not a gimmick. Calling it a gimmick won't make it a gimmick, as much as you want it to be.

Its new, its different, and that's why most of you are bashing it. Seriously.

Give it a shot and hate it then. But don't tell me that it sucks when you've never even stood up to play a game with it.

[LPPrince]

Wow, that was longer than I thought it was gonna be. Ha!

TL;DR- Try Kinect before you bash it, and no, its not a gimmick no matter how hard you try to call it one.

[Merchant2006]

LIARA, USE SINGULARITY.

Oh what does this thing do? (Binds singularity to #6 key) OH MY GOD I DON'T BELIEVE THIS.

*Cue Inception BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR*

I... don't see how voice recognition could work with PC when it came to something like ME3 but hey, as for other titles we'll have to see.

[MonkeyLungs]

#1 Kinect is way more than what is necessary for voice recognition. Ghost Recon did it on original xbrick with the cheap mic that came with the console.

#2 Kinect sucks. All this Kinect-crap has me wanting to ditch Xbox 360 and go back to PC Gaming ... now it's invading PC gaming too.

[Valikdu]

[charmingcharlie]

I don't even know why this topic is being discussed in the ME 3 forum.  The developers have already confirmed that the Kinect features are "EXCLUSIVE" to the 360.  It is completely irrelevant that MS are now trying to shove Kinect onto the PC, the software is in Beta form and will not be ready in time for Kinect to appear in the PC version anyway.

Aside from that this is Microsoft, they are not going to want the PC version to have the same features as the 360 version.  In case you missed the memo, Microsoft does it's best to keep games and content OFF the PC for as long as possible.  The only reason they are allowing Kinect on the PC is because PC users already got it working on the PC and they are half hoping PC users might actually come up with some decent uses for the thing.

So does it change my opinion of Kinect being included in ME 3 ?  Nope it is a gimmick and totally unnecessary, everything that Kinect does in ME 3 I can do a hell of a lot better and quicker using a keyboard and mouse.  Now till the day Kinect becomes BETTER than the keyboard and mouse it will remain a gimmick to me that I do not want.

[slimgrin]

The real question here is, will Kinect in ME3 be this awesome? I don't think so.


 

[D.Sharrah]

Anyone seen Minority Report with Tom Cruise? Think the scene where is going through the images on the "computer" with a wave of hand was cool? That's what Kinect opens the door of possibility to...see beyond the implications of ME 3 being "Kinect enabled" and see what the technology may have to offer the gaming world in general. Or is it too hard for some of you to see that Kinect, may just be the first step in the technological tree that leads to holodecks.

Modifié par D.Sharrah, 17 juin 2011 - 05:24 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Want.  Want want want want want for the PC.  The possibilities are huge.  There's just so much that could be done with Kinect and gaming.  It could very well be the new mouse.

[Fredvdp]

My opinion hasn't changed. If it's just voice commands, Kinect is not necessary. That goes for any platform.

[charmingcharlie]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Anyone seen Minority Report with Tom Cruise? Think the scene where is going through the images on the "computer" with a wave of hand was cool? That's what Kinect opens the door of possibility to...see beyond the implications of ME 3 being "Kinect enabled" and see what the technology may have to offer the gaming world in general. Or is it too hard for some of you to see that Kinect, may just be the first step in the technological tree that leads to holodecks.

Except so far all we have seen of ME 3 and Kinect is voice control, we haven't seen any "Minority Report" like stuff from Kinect in ME 3.  Now correct me if I am wrong but we have had the ability to control our PC's via voice control for the past ten years or so, it caught on didn't it ... oh wait no it didn't.

Secondly the Kinect camera and sensor is incredibly crap.  I believe you have to be at least 6ft away from the device for it to work properly.  I do not see people wanting to sit 6ft away from their PC, do you ?  Everything I have seen from Kinect usage on ME 3 screams "GIMMICK" all the things you can do with Kinect in ME 3 can already be done a hell of a lot better with the mouse and keyboard.  So like I said till Kinect actually does a better job of controlling things I will stick with what works.

[Ruud333]

charmingcharlie wrote...

Except so far all we have seen of ME 3 and Kinect is voice control, we haven't seen any "Minority Report" like stuff from Kinect in ME 3. 

In an interview with Geogh Keighley the president (I think it was the president) of EA said Kinect would also be used for things like the galaxy map.  No further details than that, but hopefully it will use the Kinect motion controller.  If/when we see some footage of it we will have an idea if it will be any good or not.

charmingcharlie wrote...

Secondly the Kinect camera and sensor is incredibly crap.  I believe you have to be at least 6ft away from the device for it to work properly.  I do not see people wanting to sit 6ft away from their PC, do you ?  Everything I have seen from Kinect usage on ME 3 screams "GIMMICK" all the things you can do with Kinect in ME 3 can already be done a hell of a lot better with the mouse and keyboard.  So like I said till Kinect actually does a better job of controlling things I will stick with what works.

So having to be 6 foot away from it makes Kinect's camera/sensor  'incredibly crap'.  That is your only reasoning for that statement?  It is just that as it is aimed primarily at games where you are jumping around like a wally, that sounds fair enough to me.

Anyways, for using Kinect to navigate menus etc, you only have to be about 1 metre away (in my experience).  Still to far for PC gamers, but if you are playing on a 360 it means you don't have to be sitting miles back to use it

[charmingcharlie]

Ruud333 wrote...
In an interview with Geogh Keighley the president (I think it was the president) of EA said Kinect would also be used for things like the galaxy map.  No further details than that, but hopefully it will use the Kinect motion controller.  If/when we see some footage of it we will have an idea if it will be any good or not.

Until we see it there is very little point in commenting on that.  It is only appropriate that we comment on what we have seen so far in ME 3 and as I said voice control did not impress me one little bit.  I could set my PC up to be fully controlled via voice commands if I wanted but I don't because it is still more efficient to use the mouse and keyboard.

Ruud333 wrote...
So having to be 6 foot away from it makes Kinect's camera/sensor  'incredibly crap'.  That is your only reasoning for that statement?  It is just that as it is aimed primarily at games where you are jumping around like a wally, that sounds fair enough to me.

Anyways, for using Kinect to navigate menus etc, you only have to be about 1 metre away (in my experience).  Still to far for PC gamers, but if you are playing on a 360 it means you don't have to be sitting miles back to use it

We are not talking about the Xbox 360 here we are talking about Kinect and the PC.  I called it crap because requiring you to be 6ft away from the device for it to work properly is a pretty severe limitation to it.  At any rate you obviously agree with me that Kinect for the PC is a pretty bad idea since you acknowledge that you have to sit at least 1 metre away (3ft) from the sensor for it to actually work and most PC gamers do not sit that far from their PC.

[slimgrin]

Fredvdp wrote...

My opinion hasn't changed. If it's just voice commands, Kinect is not necessary. That goes for any platform.

The point that everyone seems to be missing. 

[Notanything]

Kinect.. Useless.

[Durka531]

Not really, PC has had "voice command" for years and to me it's just a gimmick.

[Ruud333]

charmingcharlie wrote...

Until we see it there is very little point in commenting on that. 

That is more or less what I meant by "If/when we see some footage of it we will have an idea if it will be any good or not.".

charmingcharlie wrote...

It is only appropriate that we comment on what we have seen so far in ME 3 and as I said voice control did not impress me one little bit. 

I only brought it up beause you said "so far all we have seen of ME 3 and Kinect is voice control, we haven't seen any "Minority Report" like stuff from Kinect in ME 3."  I just thought people might be interested to know it may not just be voice control.

charmingcharlie wrote...

We are not talking about the Xbox 360 here we are talking about Kinect and the PC. 

360 gamers will read these posts.  Maybe those without Kinect might be interested to know you don't always have to be 6 foot away from it for it too work.

charmingcharlie wrote...

I called it crap because requiring you to be 6ft away from the device for it to work properly is a pretty severe limitation to it. 

It is not a limitation when you consider what it is designed for - motion controlled games.  It is a limitation if you are using a PC.  It will make it 'crap' for that particular scenario.  It does not make it 'crap' overall.

charmingcharlie wrote...

At any rate you obviously agree with me that Kinect for the PC is a pretty bad idea since you acknowledge that you have to sit at least 1 metre away (3ft) from the sensor for it to actually work and most PC gamers do not sit that far from their PC.

I don't think it is a bad idea to release Kinect for the PC in general, but I do agree for games that require you to use m+k as well as Kinect, it will be difficult/impossible to use m+k at a desk with Kinect (unless you have a wirelesss m+k I guess).

Modifié par Ruud333, 17 juin 2011 - 07:58 .

[charmingcharlie]

Ruud333 wrote...

360 gamers will read these posts.  Maybe those without Kinect might be interested to know you don't always have to be 6 foot away from it for it too work.

Then 360 gamers should educate themselves.  I am here to comment on the issue of Kinect with the PC.  For the record the 6ft comment is not mine it is Microsofts :-

Microsoft .......

6 feet (1.8 meters) between you and your television for play space

http://www.microsoft...lRefID.C737B081

Ruud333 wrote...
It is not a limitation when you consider what it is designed for - motion controlled games.  It is a limitation if you are using a PC.  It will make it 'crap' for that particular scenario.  It does not make it 'crap' overall.

It uses an incredibly low res camera, they removed one of the CPU's out of Kinect forcing the Xbox 360 to take up the work load, the lag times I have seen from Kinect are horrible.  In short it is motion capture done as cheaply as they could possibly do it and as such it has severe limitations.  Now in my books that makes it fall into the category of "crap".

Now you say "it is not a limitation when you considered it is designed for motion controlled games" we are not talking about motion controlled games here we are talking about Mass Effect 3 which I would hardly call a game designed with Kinects strengths in mind.  What I do find telling about this is how Bioware are cramming Kinect into ME 3 but oddly enough they are leaving the PS3's Move out of ME 3 and I would say Move would work a hell of a lot better with a shooter like ME 3 than Kinect ever will.

What I have seen so far of Kinect in ME 3 does not impress me one little bit.  No I don't want to read lines out from a TV just to select what Shepard will say, when a simple mouse gesture will do the same thing.  I most certain don't want to be yelling at my monitor  "Liara move" when I can do the same thing with the Q and E.

Modifié par charmingcharlie, 17 juin 2011 - 08:29 .

[Mr.House]

A gimmick is still a gimmick.

[adneate]

Voice command is stupid, it's always been stupid because pushing a button is faster than saying "So and So go over there". Kinect is dumb and this is just more of Microsoft's pointless attempts to turn the PC into the 360, Games for Windows Live was just a clone of Xbox Live and it fracking bombed.

Kinect will bomb too.

[Iakus]

 Not too impressed with the idea.

I don't want to shout and gesture at my PC while playing ME 3.  I did enough of that during ME2, especially during the TIM scenes and the dialogue on Horizon...

[roflchoppaz]

Microsoft: Hey guys, Kinect is coming for PC! Aren't you excited!



^ Most of this thread, including me.

Modifié par roflchoppaz, 17 juin 2011 - 08:52 .