36 réponses à ce sujet

[Dane Seagal]

From what we see the 3 PMCs in this game are basically militarized mafia. With the blood pack more of a gang of thugs. Are they legal in Council Space? Is it common knowledge they're criminal douchebags?

[ISpeakTheTruth]

The Blue Suns are the only one of the three that are seen as a legal and legitamate force in Council Space. You'll find that they are hired all the time for transportation of important items or body guarding. You see this clearly in the quest to recruit Jack. The Blue Suns own the Purgatory and all the different planets inside Council space see it as a legitamate place to house the worst criminals in the galaxy for a price. They're a for profit corporation. They even sell Blue Sun shaving cream so that tells you how wide their group goes from straight up mercinary work to every day products.

The Blood Pack is illegal in Council space they stay in the Terminus systems.

The Eclipse mercs are seen as Illegal they are basically the drug dealers of the galaxy with some body guarding on the side. They stay in the Terminus system mainly aswell.

[General User]

We see Blue Suns operating on the Citadel and Eclipse operating openly on Bekenstein.

I can't say if those are representative of Citadel space as a whole. It may go empire by empire, or planet by planet.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

True, one could argue that the Eclipse are maybe semi-legal in certain parts of space.

The one thing I do like about the Blue Suns is they aren't racist like the other two. They are the only group in Mass Effect that have Humans, Batarians, and Turians working side by side with eachother without any problem and those three groups have some history. Heck in Redemption they even have Krogan on the team so they have the moral high ground lol

[CaptainZaysh]

I see them as being more akin to a warlord's private army than Blackwater or Aegis.

[SandTrout]

The mercenary corporations that we run into are primarily front operations for organized crime, which is not very close to their modern-day equivalents. There are divisions within the Blue Suns and Eclipse that are 100% legit, but large portions of both of the organizations are little more than criminals. The Blood Pack operates exclusively withing the terminus systems, to my knowledge, and any operations they have within Citadel Space are criminal operations..

[Sebby]

SandTrout wrote...

The mercenary corporations that we run into are primarily front operations for organized crime, which is not very close to their modern-day equivalents. There are divisions within the Blue Suns and Eclipse that are 100% legit, but large portions of both of the organizations are little more than criminals. The Blood Pack operates exclusively withing the terminus systems, to my knowledge, and any operations they have within Citadel Space are criminal operations..

There's Blood Pack Krogans in Thane's loyalty mission.

[Moiaussi]

The mercs turning out to be the dreaded Terminus pirates is a massive cop out on the part of BW and really shoddy writing. It is not like it was hard to discover that. Cerberus gets terrorist status but the merc engaging much more openly in piracy get a free ride... riiiiiiight.

[Dean_the_Young]

By the Codex, Blood Pack are supposed to be illegal in Council Space, but bribe their way around.

Eclipse and Blue Suns vary: Blue Suns have operated in the Attican Traverse, Eclipse on Asari worlds like Illium which is not-Council-space-wink-wink.

[CaptainZaysh]

That's what I thought at first, Roja, but when I changed my mental model of their leaders from CEOs to interstellar warlords ruling vast swathes of the Terminus Systems, it kind of made more sense to me (and made killing them and their minions more rewarding).

[Moiaussi]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

That's what I thought at first, Roja, but when I changed my mental model of their leaders from CEOs to interstellar warlords ruling vast swathes of the Terminus Systems, it kind of made more sense to me (and made killing them and their minions more rewarding).

Which explains them being welcome in Council space and not treated as terrorists or pirates how, exactly?

[ISpeakTheTruth]

The Blue Suns have an explination being they have never had a memeber ever be accussed of any crime that ever stuck. So as far as they go they are seen as a for profit bodyguarding/transportation company.

And they sell Blue Sun shampoo and shaving cream.... how can they be pirates if they sell their own hygien products? lol

[Moiaussi]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

The Blue Suns have an explination being they have never had a memeber ever be accussed of any crime that ever stuck. So as far as they go they are seen as a for profit bodyguarding/transportation company.

And they sell Blue Sun shampoo and shaving cream.... how can they be pirates if they sell their own hygien products? lol

Proof is incredibly easy to obtain in the regions they base their piracy from and the STG teams do intel gathering there. Front organizations can still be considered illegal on money laundering or other similar charges. They don't have to be directly involved in crime.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

If its so easy than they wouldn't still be seen as legitamate in the majority of the Traverse and Council space. Like the Codex says no Blue Sun member has ever been convicted or anything illegal.

[Raven4030]

Moiaussi wrote...

Proof is incredibly easy to obtain in the regions they base their piracy from and the STG teams do intel gathering there. Front organizations can still be considered illegal on money laundering or other similar charges. They don't have to be directly involved in crime.

Except they do all the criminal stuff in the Terminus Systems (the Blue Suns anyway). I imagine the other two groups simply got caught doing illegal stuff in Citadel Space giving the council an excuse to outlaw them, while the Blue Suns were smart enough to restrict illegal activities to the Terminus. Unless the Council is willing to assert authority over the Terminus (which they aren't) then you could wipe out primitive species from space just for the fun of it (in fact, I think at least one planet where a pre-spaceflight civilization was wiped out by what appears to be mass accelerator fire from orbit was the result of bored pirates) and the citadel authorities can't touch you.

Put simply: The Terminus Systems are Somalia.

[Moiaussi]

Alliance and/or Council ships skirmish with pirates once or twice a year though (per the Codex), so they do raid into Council space. Somali pirates are independant operations, not the core of multinationals operating legally in the rest of the world. Shepard is literally tripping over merc-pirate operations in ME2. He can't turn around without running into them. They don't even pretend to be independant of the merc companies. Same uniforms, leadership, etc, and the leadership is more involved in the piracy than in the regular merc ops.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Just because those ships come into contact with pirates doesn't mean that those pirates are the Blue Suns, they're smart enough not to mess with government ships because that would destroy their legit buisness. Shepard is tripping over mercs in the Terminus systems where the Council has no juristiction. Think about Sidonis he goes to the C-Sec and admits to causing the deaths of a dozen people but the C-Sec can't do anything to him because that happened in the Terminus.

Modifié par ISpeakTheTruth, 17 juin 2011 - 04:55 .

[Moiaussi]

Jurisdiction is a funny thing. It matters for conventional law enforcement, but when you are dealing with raiders who are eliminating shipping and hitting colonies it becomes a military matter and jurisdiction becomes a lot more blurry. The US government, for example, has no jurisdiction in Pakistan, but that didn't stop them finding and eliminating Osama. Espionage work is often not restricted by border and can produce evidence that will stand up in court, and it takes even less evidence for legislation to stand against them.

There are countless examples of groups declared terrorist over their actions in other countries.

[Raven4030]

You're assuming though that the Citadel species actually care about what is happening in the Terminus. You have Collectors abducting entire colonies and the response is restricted to a half-hearted investigation by Alliance authorities. Given that, do you honestly think they'll expend the time and energy to prosecute the Blue Suns for a few acts of piracy on private shipping? Especially if the Blue Suns do nothing criminal in Citadel Space. Basically, you have a combination of jurisdiction and apathy at work here.

Of course, we could just go with the simpler explanation and say the reason the Blue Suns are allowed is because we needed SOMEBODY to fight during Garrus's loyalty mission on the Citadel.

[Moiaussi]

Raven4030 wrote...

You're assuming though that the Citadel species actually care about what is happening in the Terminus. You have Collectors abducting entire colonies and the response is restricted to a half-hearted investigation by Alliance authorities. Given that, do you honestly think they'll expend the time and energy to prosecute the Blue Suns for a few acts of piracy on private shipping? Especially if the Blue Suns do nothing criminal in Citadel Space. Basically, you have a combination of jurisdiction and apathy at work here.

Of course, we could just go with the simpler explanation and say the reason the Blue Suns are allowed is because we needed SOMEBODY to fight during Garrus's loyalty mission on the Citadel.

Per the codex entry for the Salarian Special Tasks Group:

The STG is a proactive organization, puncturing worrisome trends before they become movements. At any time, a dozen groups are operating covertly within the lawless Terminus Systems, sowing dissent among the various factions. Civilians analysts also note how troublesome "hinge point" individuals in Terminus frequently meet unexpected deaths.

The fact that the Council doesn't intervene overtly in the region doesn't mean they don't operate their covertly, and the pirates raid into Alliance (and therefore Council) space.

[Raven4030]

1) Blue Suns do not include the entirety of the pirate population nor is there an overarching 'pirate' authority which forces them to raid council space. So, if you think that proving that pirates raid council space means you've proven the Blue Suns are pirates who raid council space then I'm clearly wasting my time here.

2) A dozen STG teams is a pittance compared to the size of the Terminus region. Admittedly, you did prove they do actually care, but if you look at the same entry their primary interest is in preventing unity within the Terminus. Again, I somehow doubt that 'sowing dissent' includes "giving two s***s about a few pirate attacks on private shipping"

[Moiaussi]

Raven4030 wrote...

1) Blue Suns do not include the entirety of the pirate population nor is there an overarching 'pirate' authority which forces them to raid council space. So, if you think that proving that pirates raid council space means you've proven the Blue Suns are pirates who raid council space then I'm clearly wasting my time here.

2) A dozen STG teams is a pittance compared to the size of the Terminus region. Admittedly, you did prove they do actually care, but if you look at the same entry their primary interest is in preventing unity within the Terminus. Again, I somehow doubt that 'sowing dissent' includes "giving two s***s about a few pirate attacks on private shipping"

To answer both, the Normandy is hardly 'a dozen STG teams' and they were tripping over pirate operations without even looking for them. It seems unlikely that a dozen STG teams actually investigating piracy rather than Collectors wouldn't be able to find them or track operations.

You also seem to forget that the attack on Elysium was a joint operation between various pirate bands. It was attempted retalliation against stepped up anti-piracy patrols in the Skyllian Verge. Who, precisely do you think the STG teams are in Terminus to destabilize? Farmers on Horizon?

[Raven4030]

I'm sorry, are we talking about the same thing here? Because you're talking about pirates in general and I'm talking about the Blue Suns mercenary group so I feel like we're not even having the same conversation here. Are you even reading what you're quoting?

[Moiaussi]

Raven4030 wrote...

I'm sorry, are we talking about the same thing here? Because you're talking about pirates in general and I'm talking about the Blue Suns mercenary group so I feel like we're not even having the same conversation here. Are you even reading what you're quoting?

First of all, this thread is about the mercenary companies in general, not specificly Blue Suns. Second, the mercenary companies are obviously involved in piracy (per what we see in ME2). We don't see any signs of non-merc pirate bands. If there were any, why wouldn't they have had a presence on Omega thus becoming targets of Archangel (Garrus)? Why isn't there even any mention of non-merc pirates?

Again, if it isn't the mercenary-pirates that the Council is afraid of banding together, who is it in Terminus that the Council are afraid of and if not the mercs, why do the 'real' pirates allow such obvious competition in their space?

Modifié par Moiaussi, 17 juin 2011 - 07:53 .