34 réponses à ce sujet

[Arrow70]

First let me say I realize that the game has a long way to go in the devolopmental process and that changes may occur.
I am basing this of the Screenshots from the gamespot demo and we will never know anything for sure untill the game is released.

So it appears that ME3 will follow ME2's point systemm in which each rank of a power costs one more point than the last Which means to purchase ranks of some powers you will have to wait several levels

So lets look at this one...


Liara, in this screenshot is level 18 (which appears to be around halfway so I'd guess that the level cap is around 40)and if we use IF you count ranks in the frist column as one point the second as two and so on, She has 17 points spent already and one left to spend.

This means that Squad mates earn one point per level. This worries me because that would mean for Liara to add another rank of lift orb You would have to wait four more levels. and it takes twenty one points to fill a power.

I don't know about anyone else but while I like ME2 more dynamic leveling (which to me felt like a substantial change each rank) I did not like haveing to wait levels to distribute points. It appears to be worse In ME3 and like ME2 you could end up with unspent points.

Shepard (based on these screens) appears to get 2 points per level.
Now to me everything so far in ME3 looks amazing but this bothers me.

Is anyone else worried about this or is it just me?

[shnizzler93]

Arrow70 wrote...

First let me say I realize that the game has a long way to go in the devolopmental process and that changes may occur.

[Malanek]

Yep, if what you have deduced from that screenshot is correct you will have to choose your powers carefully. On the other hand we don't know what level you should expect to rise to.

[Ahglock]

shnizzler93 wrote...

Arrow70 wrote...

First let me say I realize that the game has a long way to go in the devolopmental process and that changes may occur.

While yes that is true, it is bad to run around just saying that and ignoring what is shown to be current.  This system sucked in ME2, it just isn't fun to wait X levels to put 1 point into a power.  They seem to be keeping the suck, so I think it is wise to speak up now.  

[Notanything]

Ahglock wrote...

shnizzler93 wrote...

Arrow70 wrote...

First let me say I realize that the game has a long way to go in the devolopmental process and that changes may occur.

While yes that is true, it is bad to run around just saying that and ignoring what is shown to be current.  This system sucked in ME2, it just isn't fun to wait X levels to put 1 point into a power.  They seem to be keeping the suck, so I think it is wise to speak up now.  

Well said.

[Zulmoka531]

It also, in ME2 at the very least, made it hard to cap a particular power since you had to "unlock" some of them. Though from my understanding this has been removed in ME3.

[RPGamer13]

Yeah, I'm not too crazy on the idea, but as long as you don't have to unlock them by spending points in other abilities... I think I could live with it.

[Bogsnot1]

Zulmoka531 wrote...

It also, in ME2 at the very least, made it hard to cap a particular power since you had to "unlock" some of them. Though from my understanding this has been removed in ME3.

No, it hasnt. The level up screenshot for shep shows Disruptor and cryo ammo locked out and grey, as the points hadnt been spent in inferno ammo to unklock them.

[Zulmoka531]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Zulmoka531 wrote...

It also, in ME2 at the very least, made it hard to cap a particular power since you had to "unlock" some of them. Though from my understanding this has been removed in ME3.

No, it hasnt. The level up screenshot for shep shows Disruptor and cryo ammo locked out and grey, as the points hadnt been spent in inferno ammo to unklock them.

Oh joy...looking forward to that again...

[Deztyn]

I never minded it in ME2 since there were so few abilities and such a large spike in power with each level. I just hope they include the ability to respec squaddies early to mid game and we don't have to wait for DLC or mod the game.

[marshalleck]

Arrow70 wrote...

First let me say I realize that the game has a long way to go in the devolopmental process and that changes may occur.
I am basing this of the Screenshots from the gamespot demo and we will never know anything for sure untill the game is released.

So it appears that ME3 will follow ME2's point systemm in which each rank of a power costs one more point than the last Which means to purchase ranks of some powers you will have to wait several levels

So lets look at this one...


Liara, in this screenshot is level 18 (which appears to be around halfway so I'd guess that the level cap is around 40)and if we use IF you count ranks in the frist column as one point the second as two and so on, She has 17 points spent already and one left to spend.

This means that Squad mates earn one point per level. This worries me because that would mean for Liara to add another rank of lift orb You would have to wait four more levels. and it takes twenty one points to fill a power.

I don't know about anyone else but while I like ME2 more dynamic leveling (which to me felt like a substantial change each rank) I did not like haveing to wait levels to distribute points. It appears to be worse In ME3 and like ME2 you could end up with unspent points.

Shepard (based on these screens) appears to get 2 points per level.
Now to me everything so far in ME3 looks amazing but this bothers me.

Is anyone else worried about this or is it just me?

She's level 18, with 675 XP to go to level 19. That's about half a level. 

That blue bar is experience, not a level plot. Characters might go well above 40, in which case your theorycraft is horribly wrong.

Modifié par marshalleck, 17 juin 2011 - 03:40 .

[Walker White]

Look, this is nothing new. Skill buy systems have worked this way since the Earth cooled. Champions (and later Hero System) works this way. GURPS works this way. Even early World of Darkness works this way.

The only problem is that they are holding on to this concept of "levels", because the of a sizeable part of the market that is uncomfortable with non-level based RPGs (even though they have existed since 1980). But if the structure is "missions given a fixed amount of skill points, and you save those up to buy abilities), this is exactly how skill-buy systems are supposed to work.

In fact, just about the only system that does not work this way is d20 (I am not including skill-based systems like Chaosium, where skills are leveled independently). That was a known flaw in the design of the system. Diminishing returns is an important and necessary feature in skill/power design.

[Bluko]

It would be nice if things could actually be upgraded on an incremental basis. I really do hate the concept of saving skill points. Skills should increase with each level, or those various "meaningless" levels should not really exist to begin. Why level up? How has the character gained anything? Isn't that the point of leveling to represent the character has learned or gained something new?

Walker White wrote...

The only problem is that they are holding on to this concept of "levels", because the of a sizeable part of the market that is uncomfortable with non-level based RPGs (even though they have existed since 1980).

I wish they had made skill based systems from the start. Would have madea lot more sense. Why the heck is trained N7 Special Forces Operative start off with barely any training and lackluster equipment? I really do hate the concept of characters levels as it's total nonsense that killing just one more enemy or doing one more mission suddenly allows you get shot three times instead of twice because of a health increase.

This is what confuses me. Bioware clings to traditional things like levels, but dismisses things like inventory as being unnecessary. Even though it's stuff like levels that are actually useless as enemies scale to it regardless.

[The Spamming Troll]

the thing is im starved for putting points into abilites. honestly, i could play an entire game that consisted of putting points into abilities, or planning how im going to invest the points im about to gain. ME1 gave me alot of satisfaction in leveling up because i did it often, and the game made me notice when it occurred. i dont like waiting to invest a bulk amount of points. id rather spend 1 point often, then 4 points seldom.

[Arrow70]

marshalleck wrote...

She's level 18, with 675 XP to go to level 19. That's about half a level. 

That blue bar is experience, not a level plot. Characters might go well above 40, in which case your theorycraft is horribly wrong.

Thats a good point I hadn't considered that, but that doesn't mean the level cap could go above 40, it could be twenty for all we know, the game isn't out yet.

But even if it does that still doesn't solve the problem that it appears that we will have to wait several levels to upggrade one power (in that pick lift orb would take 4 more levels to spend points in)

Not to mention the problem of left over points that you can't spend at all which really bothered me. (in fact it was the only part of ME2 I had a real problem with.)


Also I've never heard of the word  "theorycraft"

[Dannyboy9876]

People didn't like ME2's point system? wtf?

You level up so fast in that game, you're pretty much LV20 by Freedom's Progress.

[Arrow70]

Dannyboy9876 wrote...

People didn't like ME2's point system? wtf?

You level up so fast in that game, you're pretty much LV20 by Freedom's Progress.

hyperbole aside, yeah you level up fast in the very begining of the game but some people, like myself, didn't like having to wait to spend points.

I personaly didn't like having left over points that I couldn't spend.

(I am not one of those people who criticize ME2 at everyturn or those who claim every aspect should match ME1, I loved ME2 and this was literly my only problem with it)

[Dannyboy9876]

Arrow70 wrote...

Dannyboy9876 wrote...

People didn't like ME2's point system? wtf?

You level up so fast in that game, you're pretty much LV20 by Freedom's Progress.

hyperbole aside, yeah you level up fast in the very begining of the game but some people, like myself, didn't like having to wait to spend points.

I personaly didn't like having left over points that I couldn't spend.

(I am not one of those people who criticize ME2 at everyturn or those who claim every aspect should match ME1, I loved ME2 and this was literly my only problem with it)

I also having that last "1 point"

While I agree that ME1's point system was better, ME2's wasn't far behind, and they may change it.

[Cainne Chapel]

I hear what you're saying SpammingTroll, but i still prefered ME2's noticeable upgrades with each ascending skill than ME1s pittance of a point here and a point there. Which caused no real discernable change most of the time. Except after I spent 5 or6 points and even then the difference was near negligible.

Granted I dont like having to save up points either, but i'd rather have less levels wit bigger impact than more levels with lesser impact

[Someone With Mass]

Forget about that. I'm more worried about having to relocate points because I have like two points left, but all the powers are well past that requirement.

Which happened a lot to both Shepard and the team for me in ME2.

[Dannyboy9876]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Forget about that. I'm more worried about having to relocate points because I have like two points left, but all the powers are well past that requirement.

Which happened a lot to both Shepard and the team for me in ME2.

Thank god for LotSB.

[Sidney]

We also don't know since there are now 6 levels and not 4 for example if you still get 1 point per level up or maybe you get 2 or perhaps at certain "break points" - every 5 levels - you get more than 1.

[The Spamming Troll]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

I hear what you're saying SpammingTroll, but i still prefered ME2's noticeable upgrades with each ascending skill than ME1s pittance of a point here and a point there. Which caused no real discernable change most of the time. Except after I spent 5 or6 points and even then the difference was near negligible.

Granted I dont like having to save up points either, but i'd rather have less levels wit bigger impact than more levels with lesser impact

even tho ME1s points were added more often and made less of an impact, thers no denying the fact that a level 60 character is going to look far superior to a level 20 character. but then on the other hand ME2s level 10 looks almost exactly like the level 30 version of itself. i can do the same thing with my ME2 level 10 character that i could do with my level 30, essentially. ME1s level 20 would be eaten alive by a level 60.

so to say ME2s leveling showed more promise is entire wrong. if i invested 4 points at a time in ME1, youd notice a larger change as well.

[Rune-Chan]

Mass Effect 2's system was broken as there is no way you should possibly be able to have levelling up points that have no use whatsoever, it renders them obsolete. You should also not need to have one power to unlock another unless they are directly linked.

[Bozorgmehr]

Arrow70 wrote...

So it appears that ME3 will follow ME2's point systemm in which each rank of a power costs one more point than the last Which means to purchase ranks of some powers you will have to wait several levels

So lets look at this one...


Liara, in this screenshot is level 18 (which appears to be around halfway so I'd guess that the level cap is around 40)and if we use IF you count ranks in the frist column as one point the second as two and so on, She has 17 points spent already and one left to spend.

I think you're assuming too much. Your reasoning is flawed b/c if it were true then Liara has used 14 skill points (and has one left > 15 total). That ain't the 18 skillpoints she should have had using your logic.

This means that Squad mates earn one point per level. This worries me because that would mean for Liara to add another rank of lift orb You would have to wait four more levels. and it takes twenty one points to fill a power.

Seems very unlikely imo. If 21 points are needed to max a single power it would mean squadmates need a huge level cap (more than 60 is needed to max 3 out of 5 powers, which is less compared to ME2's 3 out 4 powers @ lvl 30).

I don't know about anyone else but while I like ME2 more dynamic leveling (which to me felt like a substantial change each rank) I did not like haveing to wait levels to distribute points. It appears to be worse In ME3 and like ME2 you could end up with unspent points.

Shepard (based on these screens) appears to get 2 points per level.
Now to me everything so far in ME3 looks amazing but this bothers me.

Is anyone else worried about this or is it just me?

I'm not worried at all. Bioware already announced  leveling up and using different gear and equipment will have a higher impact on gameplay than in ME2. They know ME2's system is lacking so it, again, seems unlikely they will persist using a system that already proven faulty.