217 réponses à ce sujet

[FlyingWalrus]

I could take or leave the regenerating health concept, personally. I never had a PC that was up to date with gaming, so I cut my teeth on GoldenEye which didn't even have health replenishment, much less regenerating health. I just don't have a problem with it as is because the codex entry for armor always mentioned that injections of medigel were administered to injury sites as soon as the smart armor system picked up on them. I do think that shields ought to be stronger, or at least hold up for a little bit longer than they do in ME2.

I absolutely hate the reddening around the screen, though. I hope that gets changed or removed entirely.

Modifié par FlyingWalrus, 17 juin 2011 - 04:25 .

[CPT Eightball]

This problem has already been solved.

Currently:
When soldiers are hurt or wounded in battle, medics mend and clean wounds in a way so that soldiers can keep fighting, they don't actually fix the problem/wound.

In Mass Effect:
Medi-gel is supposed to work in the same way. When a bullet actually pierces the kenetic barrier, AND the armor, Medi-Gel fills in wound and seals it quickly so that the solider can keep fighting. The damage is repaired later.
ie: it gives the appearance of "regaining health"

Modifié par CPT Eightball, 17 juin 2011 - 04:27 .

[Lucav5]

Regenerating shields / barrier (maybe make them regen slower), coupled with a health bar that could only be regenerated via medigel or (slowly) via upgrades / talents. That is the way I would design it. With that being said, I think me2 on the higher difficulties strikes a good balance as is.

[AlanC9]

Man, that linked article is a mess. One writer makes the healing ability overpowered, and suddenly the conclusion is that the healing ability itself is overpowered?

Yeah, I know it's just a lame setup, but I can't take anything he says seriously after that.

[DocLasty]

I think both have their purposes.

I prefer regenerating health, because it keeps the flow of combat moving. I don't have to worry about scouring the area for health packs, hording them, going back and filling up, et cetera. One could argue that properly rationing health packs is strategy, and that might be true, but I think the trade-off is a better flow. You fight. You heal. You move on.

And ME2 had no shortage of enemies that would happily advance on you if you waited around too long in cover. Mechs, Krogans, Reapers, husks...they all come up quite often, and just sitting around holding your ground was no good defense.

[E-MailA.K.A.Mr.Fox]

This is the same debate as the Ammo vs no ammo people.

[Dane Seagal]

AlanC9 wrote...

Man, that linked article is a mess. One writer makes the healing ability overpowered, and suddenly the conclusion is that the healing ability itself is overpowered?

Yeah, I know it's just a lame setup, but I can't take anything he says seriously after that.

No, his point was that the regen was too fast, and of too serious injuries, to the point of 'breaking' Wolverine. I don't think he is against all healing abilities, he just doesn't like them taken in the extreme.

Neither do I, really. I dislike the regen health system in many games. I didn't mind it in Mass Effect 2 because there was an in-universe explanation, there were bars indicating your shields and 'health', there were audio cues when your shield went down, and you don't have your gun shoot up in the air like COD when you're hit. You're also encouraged to heal manually when it gets tough using upgraded Unity.

I don't know, maybe I'm biased, but I think it works in ME2 and doesn't work as it should in COD and many other games. On higher ME2 difficulties you basically have to make clever use of you and your squads powers in order to make up for the lack of shielding. In COD you need superhuman aiming skills and craploads of luck.

[Ixalmaris]

No regenerating health? Are you insane?
Bioware wants to attract the CoD kiddies and not scare them away with complicated mechanics like being careful and watching a bar or other health meter.

[wizardryforever]

E-MailA.K.A.Mr.Fox wrote...

This is the same debate as the Ammo vs no ammo people.

Basically yes.  Except now people that rail against the ammo system want to get rid of auto regen.  They flip-flop their argument, and why?  Because that is how ME1 did it.  Yeah, take a look at this -> tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks

[Massadonious1]

Ixalmaris wrote...
No regenerating health? Are you insane?Bioware wants to attract the CoD kiddies and not scare them away with complicated mechanics like being careful and watching a bar or other health meter.

Oh look, my health is low. <presses button for potion>

HAY GAIZ LOOK I AM GEINUZ!

Modifié par Massadonious1, 17 juin 2011 - 05:12 .

[Ixalmaris]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...
No regenerating health? Are you insane?Bioware wants to attract the CoD kiddies and not scare them away with complicated mechanics like being careful and watching a bar or other health meter.

Oh look, my health is low. <presses button for potion>

HAY GAIZ LOOK I AM GEINUZ!

For CoD kiddies, that is true in a non sarcastic way...

[Massadonious1]

It's a good thing I was actually directing it at people who think certain RPG mechanics are the pinnacle of intellectual thought, then.

[nitrog100]

It makes more sense if you read the codex. There's a squishy layer in the armor that injects medigel wherever there's a hole. It was a new feature that came about in the two years that Shepard was out of commission.

[Admoniter]

I think semi-regenerating health is a much better concept than full on regeneration. That way losing some health is acceptable because you can get some of it back but you still need finite items (if done properly) to heal any major damage. Personally the no consequence style of play that full on health regen seems to have founded is not my cup of tea. If I screw up I should be punished, with death or with wounds if necessary; I shouldn't be able to waltz behind cover and pop back out as good as new after a few seconds simply because I didn't take any damage.

Another thing that full health regen brings to bear is the habit of not showing your health bar... it really grinds my gears at the very least there should be an option other than bloody screen. Which brings me to the near death screens. Which in theory I don't mind; another method for gauging your health, plenty of ways to go about it. In several cases however it looks terrible, is intrusive and just seems so out of place within the game. The CoD system was bad, I however found the ME2 one just downright horrendous like violation of human rights bad. I sincerely hope BW never designs something so tacky looking as it again.

[Casper DM]

Why not just have a no health regen option in the menu next to difficulty and squad power usage similar to how Fallout 3 New Vegas had hardcore mode?

[DocLasty]

Massadonious1 wrote...

It's a good thing I was actually directing it at people who think certain RPG mechanics are the pinnacle of intellectual thought, then.

Oh, Lord, yes. I'm starting to really hate the trumped up sense of superiority that some people around here have. Liking RPGs doesn't make you smart.

[Praetor Knight]

Lord Zeuss wrote...

Give the article a read.

What, really? That link was more of an opinion piece then an article IMHO, and we all can have our opinions, I'm just fuzzy on how this is relevant to any discourse about ME3 gameplay mechanics? 

Maybe more toggles?




Also, Shepard needed the Lazarus Project when something potentially similar happened at the beginning of ME2...

So that's no contest to Wolverine and his Adamantium Skeleton!


And honestly, I stopped reading that opinion piece once I got to the part of Canada being boring, I skimmed the rest though.

So I raise that opinion piece, one Monty Python pic!

[Kilshrek]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Oh look, my health is low. <presses button for potion>

HAY GAIZ LOOK I AM GEINUZ!

*lights pipe*

"Quite so, old bean"

Anyway the futuristic medi-goop explains it a little better than just having everyone take cover and heal up automatically, and also makes fights a little more interesting.

Medi-gel example : In a longer fight you and your squaddies may take a significant hit to health, necessitating use of medi-gel. You only have 3 for the fight, and it seems you haven't even scratched the surface of the fight. Heal up now and you may not find more medi-gel later, but if you don't the gang might just get wiped out in the first fight. So medi-gel it is, and pray the next fight isn't as hard, or you find more medi-gel. Unity doesn't heal squaddies up to full health either.

Regeneration example : You have 8 packs of medi-gel waiting to "revive" anyone who kicks it. This is a tough fight but all you need to do is just hide behind some convenient cover every time you take a hit. Shields and health regenerate reasonably quickly. If only squaddie AI weren't so terrible sometimes you wouldn't ever need medi-gel. Plus it's almost unfathomable why the Normandy's infirmary doesn't stock medi-gel. Most powerful human organisation huh, can't even stock an important project with enough ammo and medical supplies for a long campaign.

[TexasToast712]

This is why I like Reach. Knowing your limits makes you play smarter.

[Kogaion]

the question is "any of you who sustain OPs point of view really think you can beat ME2 without health regen on hardcore/insanity?" shields drop allmost instantly 2 shots and they 're down and without them you die in 3 shots ...i think game is very well made like this ...you can die fast so you have to be fast and the regen keeps the balance

[Shepard Lives]

I like regenerating health.

I can understand complaints that it removes the sense of urgency, but I prefer a system that removes pauses in combat (thus allowing me to get from one story segment to the other much more quickly, and almost completely eschewing the risk of dying and having to reload) to one that while making combat edgier forces me to hobble around desperately looking for a medkit.

[Bnol]

Kogaion wrote...

the question is "any of you who sustain OPs point of view really think you can beat ME2 without health regen on hardcore/insanity?" shields drop allmost instantly 2 shots and they 're down and without them you die in 3 shots ...i think game is very well made like this ...you can die fast so you have to be fast and the regen keeps the balance

It also goes beyond how fast your shields drop, but also to the enemy always knowing where you are even with using tactical cloak, or moving to new cover while they are behind cover, or shooting at a squadmate who is standing on cover and getting herself killed (looking at you Miranda), or sticky cover problems, etc.  It would also imbalance the Barrier/Shield powers because they would be the only way to really survive and you would be waiting on those CDs to do anything meaningful.  While I do agree that regenerating health can eliminate the killing by 1000 scratches danger, it does help speed up the pace of the game, allows for a CQC playstyle, and doesn't require you to hunt around for that one medi-gel kit you saw awhile ago. 

[Tripedius]

I so totally agree. When his shields are down a well placed shot should be able to kill Shep in one go. So that a headshot or one straight through the heart would be fatal immediately. Health should not recharge and medigel should be very limited and not be applicable in the middle of battle. Also death = death, so no reloading after you die. Games these days are way to easy.

[Teknor]

I guess the case is dismissed.

[FlyingWalrus]

Tripedius wrote...

I so totally agree. When his shields are down a well placed shot should be able to kill Shep in one go. So that a headshot or one straight through the heart would be fatal immediately. Health should not recharge and medigel should be very limited and not be applicable in the middle of battle. Also death = death, so no reloading after you die. Games these days are way to easy.

Casual, Normal, Hardcore, Insanity, and... Ludicrous mode?

Sounds good to me. Make it so death in combat means permadeath for a squadmate as well and ship it!