217 réponses à ce sujet

[Teknor]

Tripedius wrote...

I so totally agree. When his shields are down a well placed shot should be able to kill Shep in one go. So that a headshot or one straight through the heart would be fatal immediately. Health should not recharge and medigel should be very limited and not be applicable in the middle of battle. Also death = death, so no reloading after you die. Games these days are way to easy.

It's called real life. Not a fun game if you ask me.

[Paul Sedgmore]

While the article has a point about the system done badley ME2 isn't done badley, there is still danger as if you mess up you can still die quickly from any enemy. Plus it is the.same as ME1 it just does it automattically which as people have said is explained in game

[Shepard Lives]

FlyingWalrus wrote...

Tripedius wrote...

I so totally agree. When his shields are down a well placed shot should be able to kill Shep in one go. So that a headshot or one straight through the heart would be fatal immediately. Health should not recharge and medigel should be very limited and not be applicable in the middle of battle. Also death = death, so no reloading after you die. Games these days are way to easy.

Casual, Normal, Hardcore, Insanity, and... Ludicrous mode?

Sounds good to me. Make it so death in combat means permadeath for a squadmate as well and ship it!

Your cavalier attitude towards the game's writing disconcerts me.

[FlyingWalrus]

Shepard Lives wrote...

FlyingWalrus wrote...

Tripedius wrote...

I so totally agree. When his shields are down a well placed shot should be able to kill Shep in one go. So that a headshot or one straight through the heart would be fatal immediately. Health should not recharge and medigel should be very limited and not be applicable in the middle of battle. Also death = death, so no reloading after you die. Games these days are way to easy.

Casual, Normal, Hardcore, Insanity, and... Ludicrous mode?

Sounds good to me. Make it so death in combat means permadeath for a squadmate as well and ship it!

Your cavalier attitude towards the game's writing disconcerts me.

Ah yes, "writing." The art of coherently weaving one element of thought with another in a logical fashion. Bioware has dismissed that concept.

According to many on the forums. Not I, however. Not I.

[Kilshrek]

Tripedius wrote...

I so totally agree. When his shields are down a well placed shot should be able to kill Shep in one go. So that a headshot or one straight through the heart would be fatal immediately. Health should not recharge and medigel should be very limited and not be applicable in the middle of battle. Also death = death, so no reloading after you die. Games these days are way to easy.

If you die in the matrix.....

[Shepard Lives]

FlyingWalrus wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

FlyingWalrus wrote...

Tripedius wrote...

I so totally agree. When his shields are down a well placed shot should be able to kill Shep in one go. So that a headshot or one straight through the heart would be fatal immediately. Health should not recharge and medigel should be very limited and not be applicable in the middle of battle. Also death = death, so no reloading after you die. Games these days are way to easy.

Casual, Normal, Hardcore, Insanity, and... Ludicrous mode?

Sounds good to me. Make it so death in combat means permadeath for a squadmate as well and ship it!

Your cavalier attitude towards the game's writing disconcerts me.

Ah yes, "writing." The art of coherently weaving one element of thought with another in a logical fashion. Bioware has dismissed that concept.

According to many on the forums. Not I, however. Not I.

Permadeath for squadmates would kind of mess up the writing. Just sayin'.

[FlyingWalrus]

Shepard Lives wrote...

FlyingWalrus wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

FlyingWalrus wrote...

Tripedius wrote...

I so totally agree. When his shields are down a well placed shot should be able to kill Shep in one go. So that a headshot or one straight through the heart would be fatal immediately. Health should not recharge and medigel should be very limited and not be applicable in the middle of battle. Also death = death, so no reloading after you die. Games these days are way to easy.

Casual, Normal, Hardcore, Insanity, and... Ludicrous mode?

Sounds good to me. Make it so death in combat means permadeath for a squadmate as well and ship it!

Your cavalier attitude towards the game's writing disconcerts me.

Ah yes, "writing." The art of coherently weaving one element of thought with another in a logical fashion. Bioware has dismissed that concept.

According to many on the forums. Not I, however. Not I.

Permadeath for squadmates would kind of mess up the writing. Just sayin'.

I'm just joking, man. :<

[Shepard Lives]

FlyingWalrus wrote...

I'm just joking, man. :<

D'oh. Curse thy inability to convey sarcasm, Internet.

[FlyingWalrus]

Shepard Lives wrote...

FlyingWalrus wrote...

I'm just joking, man. :<

D'oh. Curse thy inability to convey sarcasm, Internet.

Lol, I really thought you'd have had it after the Turian Councilor parody. No harm, no foul.

[EternalPink]

I like the health regen, one of the things i hate about some games is going into boss fights with low health since i've been unable to find health restoration, same with ammo tbh in ME2.

From any sort of RP perspective you just wouldn't rush into a hard fight with a half dead squad mades, a torn lung and a half empty gun which is what you'd have to do if there was no regeneration.

in ME1 the regen was slower and you had bigger HP pools (think my solder i'm playing at the moment is already over 350 hp and he's only level 20 something) so the faster regen in ME2 is compensated by the smaller HP pool you have.

Modifié par EternalPink, 17 juin 2011 - 10:44 .

[Undertone]

ME1 had it right in my book. Rechargeable shields, manual healing of your health.

[Lumikki]

As far I can say from my gaming experience.

Enemies and friendly regenerating slowly health back is better choise than they don't. Why?

Enemies if they don't renegerate, it doesn't matter if enemy has 1 HP or 1 000 000 000 HP, because sooner or later it allways dies. It's just matter of time. When enemy renegerate health, it also requires that player is able to do enough damage in timetable to kill the enemy. Meaning player can't take short breaks to heal him self, because enemy slowly heals too.

In players character case. If player doesn't renegerate health, then that looks good first. How ever, it also can leads gameplay where player is forced to take long breaks in safe spot after every fight untill player can continue fight again. If how ever, player character does regenerate slowly, then it has no real meaning in combat situation, but the break time it means less useless waiting. Of course you could replace the renegeration with healing ability, but it basicly same. How ever, healing ability can also be used middle of combat, what isn't so good. Because then it's not just matter of tactics, but also can you use heal faster than take damage.

I have played few games where hole consept of character defence is based totally for players ability use healing. It's not good at all, to spam healing to keep you self alive. I have also played games where healing is restricted so that it can't happen in combat time at all. What is little better, but can cause situation what if you can't heal at all and don't regenerade health, what you do? Nothing, because you can't do anything to improve the situation, you are stuck.

So, I conside slow regeneration of health for both, better than none at all or healing ability.

Oh, sometimes game developers also make so that regeneration is faster in non combat situation than combat situation. This is fine, but can become problem if the difference is too big. Meaning player can force him/her self out of combat just to heal, because it's so much faster. Like example run away far enough to heal and then come back to combat, because healing happens so much faster in non combat situation.

Modifié par Lumikki, 17 juin 2011 - 12:04 .

[GnusmasTHX]

If I want urgency and tension in my shooter... I'll play a real shooter.

[Il Divo]

Ixalmaris wrote...

For CoD kiddies, that is true in a non sarcastic way...

Perhaps for some Bioware kiddies as well, since you brought up healing as a 'complicated' mechanic....

Whether intended as sarcasm or not, pretending that pressing a button to heal is significantly more difficult, speaks more about the poster's own intelligence rather than the COD audience's.

Modifié par Il Divo, 17 juin 2011 - 12:46 .

[Someone With Mass]

The armors in Mass Effect can dispense medi-gel when needed, so health regeneration is not so bad.

Better than running out of medical supplies in the middle of a battle and having no way to be healed.

[Warkupo]

It's the difference between hitting a button and restoring all your health and shields, or having to find cover to not get shot to death. ME2's regenerating health method simulates combat much more closely without getting bogged down in things like dying from being shot. Being able to hit a button and restore all your health is... laughably easy.

ME1's method routinely meant that I could just face tank every encounter. Hell, I could regenerate my HP far more reliably in ME1, for that matter. Everyone on my team was equipped with two of the highest tier Medical Exoskeleton mods and we rarely had any need for Medi-gel because of this. Just pop Barrier whenever it was ready and wreck faces with lift and throw while I let my mods regenerate any damage that did manage to get through. Same tactic for every encounter on every difficulty level. 

Modifié par Warkupo, 17 juin 2011 - 01:01 .

[Teknor]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

If I want urgency and tension in my shooter... I'll play a real shooter.

Thank god ME3 will give a real shooter experience then.

[sp0ck 06]

FlyingWalrus wrote...

I get the feeling you haven't played many shooters, Gatt9.

You cannot charge like an idiot into a situation even with regenerating health. Halo 2 was the game that pioneered this concept and it is, IMO, one of the hardest FPS campaigns ever made, especially since the enemies would easily overwhelm your position if you let them. Halo 3 was no cakewalk either. I can't speak for any of the CoD games as I have not played them.

In comparison, ME2's enemy AI just wasn't very good. The only enemies that provided a real pressure situation in my case were the Husks simply because they would rush your position and suss you out. Other than that, enemies were a shooting gallery.

Please tell me how ducking for five seconds into cover is any different on a fundamental level from ducking and manually using a medigel pack, especially with a high rank in First Aid which would make medigel recharge super quick? All that ME2 did was automate the process and remove the manual input.

This.  Halo 2 on legendary was absolutely beast (in a good way).  Regenerating health does decrease a game's difficulty.  What it does is make it a lot easier on the devs to balance encounter design.  They can make individual fights much tougher without having to worry about players who ran out of healing abilities (in ME's case, medi-gel).  Since Shepard dies extremely quickly under heavy fire I'm not sure where people are getting this ide that regen health = mindlessly blowing through levels.  I would actually argue ME1's system made it more mindless, as I could run into a room, use abilities and then medi gel with no global cooldown.  Rinse and repeat. 

Modifié par sp0ck 06, 17 juin 2011 - 01:16 .

[blacqout]

An interesting read, but he's wrong about Black Ops. I can't think of a single scripted moment in which the player can't move, but can take damage that will kill him... perhaps there is one right at the end of Numbers, but you're supposed to pick up the pistol and defend yourself.

As far as Mass Effect 2 goes, i think that regenerating health works without making the game too easy. It finds that "sweet spot" between the amount of damage an enemy can dish out and their ability to do it quick enough to kill you.

Having your screen flash red and being forced to find cover quickly is a much more challenging and rewarded mechanic that scouring for a health kit in my opinion. Call of Duty on veteran gets it right.

Modifié par blacqout, 17 juin 2011 - 01:19 .

[Someone With Mass]

sp0ck 06 wrote...
This.  Halo 2 on legendary was absolutely beast (in a good way).  Regenerating health does decrease a game's difficulty.  What it does is make it a lot easier on the devs to balance encounter design.  They can make individual fights much tougher without having to worry about players who ran out of healing abilities (in ME's case, medi-gel).  Since Shepard dies extremely quickly under heavy fire I'm not sure where people are getting this ide that regen health = mindlessly blowing through levels.  I would actually argue ME1's system made it more mindless, as I could run into a room, use abilities and then medi gel with no global cooldown.  Rinse and repeat. 

This. 

Most of the time on Insanity, I have to think about my approach before executing it, because I don't have any magic health boosters I can activate on the brink of death. Unless I'm a Sentinel.

And ME1 was almost insultingly easy once I got the right stuff. The only things that were a threat to me were the rocket drones and the snipers. The rest of them were just annoying with their shield boosters and Immunity.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 17 juin 2011 - 01:25 .

[Bozorgmehr]

What's the alternative? Spamming stimpacks ala FO3 - I was running around with a 300+ supply at the end, putting it on a hotkey meant you couldn't die whatever you did. 10x worse than a regen system. Games in which you can use health boosting/restoring items are always a lot easier to play, those items usually come in large supplies and can be used over and over again without any cooldown, timer, or other limit. It's inferior gameplay.

What's next? Folks like a stamina / mana bar because using powers shouldn't be possible indefinitely?

Taking away the regen system will only force players to play in a cautious, cowardly way - the total opposite of how I prefer to play games and a lot less fun.

A hybrid system would be tolerable imo; shields regen after a while - health doesn't (only using medkits restores health, and only health, not shields) with the same number of medkits available as in ME2 and on at least a 10 second cooldown.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 17 juin 2011 - 01:46 .

[Gabriel S.]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Regenerating health increases the urgency of a confrontation.

You don't have a massive reserve to draw upon to shield you from damage, and die much quicker. But, you don't have to worry about having taken too much damage to survive later since it is only temporary. This makes every fight effectively self contained. There are harsher short term penalties for failure, but lesser long term penalties for failure.

Shepards regeneration has not broken his character, since he can be taken down with a half a dozen shots.

This.

[lazuli]

Undertone wrote...

ME1 had it right in my book. Rechargeable shields, manual healing of your health.

You're completely ignoring the health regeneration gained through armor mods, achievements, and class abilities.  Mass Effect 1 did not feature a well-balanced system of health management.  Even on Insanity, if you had built your character correctly there were only a few types of attacks that were smart to avoid.

We've seen some clips of Shepard's health regenerating in ME3.  I'm glad it's near the ME2 system.  I'm also glad those red veins are gone, but that's neither here nor there.

[CajNatalie]

People making a case against the 'magic button' and simply saying 'Mass Effect 1 so bad idea' are thinking about it wrong.
Mass Effect 1's overall system had you be a walking tank, so that entire system is not good, and you're all right that it was far too easy once you had the right gear... I don't think anyone's arguing for an entire return to that unless they're majorly in love with Mass Effect 1 to creeptastic levels.

Having a limited number of medkits (a small number, to avoid them being relied on as a rush-in-get-shot-no-consequences enabler like in ME1), which would be automatically replenished every time you returned to the Normandy (the med-bay used to have medigel, you know... I can't for the life of me understand why the new so-called state of the art med-bay has no medigel supplies... but this time let's say you get it automatically because Shep collects it off screen so you don't have to go down to the med-bay between missions). No need to 'hunt for medkits' because your supplies are always topped up.

However, if you fail at the game and you nom through medigel like pac-man through dots, then it's your own damn fault. Learn to be good at the game and stop complaining that you're desperate for medpacks.
Seriously, gamers feel too pampered in to needing to simply finish nowadays... I remember a number of games I simply couldn't complete years ago because they were too tough. Now everything's just there almost as if it's to be completed and disposed of (note: neither extreme is good, I'm not saying Nintendo Hard is necessarily better)... this promotes an awful mentality where gamers feel like they need their hand held to help them avoid anything that might, God forbid, screw them over for failing at the game.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 17 juin 2011 - 02:42 .

[Icinix]

I prefer the healing system of tried and true games of yore. Health is down, pop a pill, potion, medi-gel, whatever.

I don't know what it is about regen health, but it makes me feel less like I'm playing - and more like I'm watching the game.