35 réponses à ce sujet

[Skirata129]

If thane dies, his son would make an interesting replacement. We already know he actually has the guts to plan and execute an assassination (as evidenced by what happens if you failed thane's loyalty mission). I can see him joining your crew and going through thane's notes on previous assignments and techniques and learning to be as good as his father.

[Raiil]

I doubt that will happen, to be honest. Kolyat will likely never have the skills necessary to be as good as his father. Not because he's incompetent, he just lacks the intense training Thane had.

On a side note, I totally support having Kolyat as a squad member in future ME games. That would be a fun tie-in.

[BeefoTheBold]

I wouldn't be terribly excited about having him to be honest. I didn't particularly like that character.

[Good Chaos7]

What about Feron?

[Skirata129]

how do you not like him? or have any opinions about him at all really? he had like, one line in the whole game. not much context to get a feel for him as a person. I just know that a) he is the son of the best assassin in the galaxy. he had the skills neccessary to execute an assassination on his own. and c) he looks as badass as thane does.

[BeefoTheBold]

Skirata129 wrote...

how do you not like him? or have any opinions about him at all really? he had like, one line in the whole game. not much context to get a feel for him as a person. I just know that a) he is the son of the best assassin in the galaxy. he had the skills neccessary to execute an assassination on his own. and c) he looks as badass as thane does.

How is it that you DO like him? Or have any opinions about him at all really? You've got as much basis for judgment as I do and therefore no real room to say I don't have enough information to have an opinion.

A. Virtue is not hereditary. His being Thane's son is no great argument in his favor. I wouldn't be excited to have Ashley's little zergling as a playable character either just because Ashley produced her.

B. His skills involved running straight at his target who had two Krogan bodyguards in the middle of a crowd firing a pistol. I'm pretty sure a well trained monkey can do that. A good assassin would find a way to kill his target without alerting the entire citadel security force of who and where he was. The approach that Garrus took was far better.

C. Any Drell would look similarly badass really.

The reason I didn't like him is because he reminded me of a whiny, emo teenager with daddy abandonment issues. There have been more than enough characters like that in both JRPG and WRPG over the years for my tastes. They're good in small doses for humanizing a character like Thane, but I wouldn't really want one around as a permanant character in the game.

[Raiil]

Well, I think for a lot of people, he can come off as kind of whiny. I'm not one of those people- homeboy has a lot of issues- but there you have it.

As for his skills, Kolyat has demonstrated the ability to tail someone in a dark area (not very high on the 'this is difficult s--t' to do scale) and pull a trigger. The skills Thane has- multiple gun proficiencies, in-depth knowledge of various species's anatomical makeup, and reflexes honed at the stage of life best suited for retaining information, muscular and mental- are not shown by his son. Kolyat could probably become quite competent, but he's no where near pulling off the One Hour Massacre or storming Dantiaus Tower anytime soon.

[Dave666]

Skirata129 wrote...

If thane dies, his son would make an interesting replacement. We already know he actually has the guts to plan and execute an assassination (as evidenced by what happens if you failed thane's loyalty mission). I can see him joining your crew and going through thane's notes on previous assignments and techniques and learning to be as good as his father.

I take it that you didn't like Thane and have absolutely no respect for him?

[BeefoTheBold]

Valentia X wrote...

Well, I think for a lot of people, he can come off as kind of whiny. I'm not one of those people- homeboy has a lot of issues- but there you have it.

As for his skills, Kolyat has demonstrated the ability to tail someone in a dark area (not very high on the 'this is difficult s--t' to do scale) and pull a trigger. The skills Thane has- multiple gun proficiencies, in-depth knowledge of various species's anatomical makeup, and reflexes honed at the stage of life best suited for retaining information, muscular and mental- are not shown by his son. Kolyat could probably become quite competent, but he's no where near pulling off the One Hour Massacre or storming Dantiaus Tower anytime soon.

The "could become quite competent" part could be interesting.

I would be violently opposed to the "teenage Kolyat with angst issues" being brought in unmodified, but if he could be tweaked as a character his background could be made to work.

I could envision a situation where, after the Reapers are thwarted, Thane goes back to spend the remaining time he has left with his son. During that time, at his son's request, much of that is spent training Kolyat to be better able to handle and protect himself after the destruction caused by the war has left the galaxy a much more dangerous and lawless place.

During this time, much of the annoying "my daddy left me" issues that Kolyat had are smoothed away to make him less whiney, and it would also give him a believable reason to not be a total incompetent when/if he joins the new protagonist's crew a couple of years later. He would still be young and inexperienced, but not feeling like someone needing a babysitter to send him to bed without his supper.

At that point, I could see him as still having some father figure issues, but more of the "Robin" type issues to the new protagonist's "Batman" where he is looking for a new father figure/mentor and that could be a somewhat interesting relationship where he becomes sort of an "apprentice" learning from a vastly more seasoned/worldwise Shepardesque protagonist.

[Skirata129]

I did like thane. I just saved before his loyalty mission and failed on purpose to see what would happen. and it was more than just following the politician around. Kolyat displayed intelligence by waiting by a place the target was known to frequent (his apartment), reducing the chance of eyewitness accounts (throwing the sole bystander off to the side from behind), neutralizing all threats beforehand (shooting the bodyguard first), verifying the kill, and having a quick exit strategy.

[Eradyn]

No. Why would you want that sniveling kid, Kolyat, of all characters? This is a military/big-guddamn-heroes operation, not some babysitting service.

[PseudoEthnic]

If you're actually requesting that BioWare make Koylat a squad member, you missed the entire point of Thane's loyalty mission.

[Raiil]

Skirata129 wrote...

I did like thane. I just saved before his loyalty mission and failed on purpose to see what would happen. and it was more than just following the politician around. Kolyat displayed intelligence by waiting by a place the target was known to frequent (his apartment), reducing the chance of eyewitness accounts (throwing the sole bystander off to the side from behind), neutralizing all threats beforehand (shooting the bodyguard first), verifying the kill, and having a quick exit strategy.

Trying to do it in a public-ish area was the first mistake. Neutralising your target where there could be untold witnesses (unless the 800 blocks all lack windows, which I doubt) is either a sign of lack of choice or a rookie screw up. If you're trying to take someone down and not be caught, you do it somewhere they feel safe and the chance for unintentional bystander activity (re: Irikah shielding the target in Thane's case) is as limited as you can make up. Public assassinations aren't a good idea.

If Kolyat had thought it out, he would have been in a situation where he didn't need to neutralise outside activity (push over the bystander) and he wouldn't have gone in charging like a blind bull. It wasn't the worst assassination attempt in history, but it wasn't a good one either.

[Eradyn]

If Kolyat had thought it out, we would have had a very different objective for Thane's LM.

Modifié par Eradyn, 17 juin 2011 - 04:06 .

[BeefoTheBold]

Valentia X wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

I did like thane. I just saved before his loyalty mission and failed on purpose to see what would happen. and it was more than just following the politician around. Kolyat displayed intelligence by waiting by a place the target was known to frequent (his apartment), reducing the chance of eyewitness accounts (throwing the sole bystander off to the side from behind), neutralizing all threats beforehand (shooting the bodyguard first), verifying the kill, and having a quick exit strategy.

Trying to do it in a public-ish area was the first mistake. Neutralising your target where there could be untold witnesses (unless the 800 blocks all lack windows, which I doubt) is either a sign of lack of choice or a rookie screw up. If you're trying to take someone down and not be caught, you do it somewhere they feel safe and the chance for unintentional bystander activity (re: Irikah shielding the target in Thane's case) is as limited as you can make up. Public assassinations aren't a good idea.

If Kolyat had thought it out, he would have been in a situation where he didn't need to neutralise outside activity (push over the bystander) and he wouldn't have gone in charging like a blind bull. It wasn't the worst assassination attempt in history, but it wasn't a good one either.

Excellent summary. You said what I was trying to say earlier, only about 100 times better.

[CheeseEnchilada]

-Kolyat is a kid, and hardly a replacement for a world-class assassin who has been trained since the age of six.

-Making him a squadmate would be going against everything that Thane wanted. Not that it necessarily matters, but...

-What makes you think Kolyat will even listen to you? He's a moody teenager.

I like Kolyat, and I'd like to see him working for C-Sec or something. But squadmate? No thanks.

[Skirata129]

doing it in a public area isn't a mistake, especially if there's a crowd around. you' ever heard the phrase, 'it all happened so fast?" eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable and drell tend to look very similiar, making a lineup useless. What kolyat did would probably end up with the same result as thane killing his wife's murderers, where C-sec knows "a drell did it" but have nothing to go on other than that.

*also, I think his method may have been the result of a budget on top of everything else. How is a kid just starting out in that line of work supposed to afford a good smg or rifle?

Modifié par Skirata129, 17 juin 2011 - 04:14 .

[BloodPainter]

i'll take conrad verner over kolyat any day :3

[Massadonious1]

It sounded like from Bailiey that he was the only Drell besides Thane on the Citadel. I'm pretty sure they would of found him eventually.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 17 juin 2011 - 04:26 .

[BeefoTheBold]

Skirata129 wrote...

doing it in a public area isn't a mistake, especially if there's a crowd around. you' ever heard the phrase, 'it all happened so fast?" eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable and drell tend to look very similiar, making a lineup useless. What kolyat did would probably end up with the same result as thane killing his wife's murderers, where C-sec knows "a drell did it" but have nothing to go on other than that.

*also, I think his method may have been the result of a budget on top of everything else. How is a kid just starting out in that line of work supposed to afford a good smg or rifle?

Drell aren't exactly numerous you know.

Simply identifying the culprit as a Drell PERIOD narrows the suspect list down considerably for C-Sec. Heck, it's what made finding Kolyat on the Citadel so easy in the first place.

Edit: Nevermind. Someone beat me to it.

Modifié par BeefoTheBold, 17 juin 2011 - 04:24 .

[Raiil]

Skirata129 wrote...

doing it in a public area isn't a mistake, especially if there's a crowd around. you' ever heard the phrase, 'it all happened so fast?" eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable and drell tend to look very similiar, making a lineup useless. What kolyat did would probably end up with the same result as thane killing his wife's murderers, where C-sec knows "a drell did it" but have nothing to go on other than that.

*also, I think his method may have been the result of a budget on top of everything else. How is a kid just starting out in that line of work supposed to afford a good smg or rifle?

There are certain, very specific situations in which a public assassination is a good idea. They all revolve around either a) being in a seriously crowded area, a knife, and years of training or being on a rooftop/raised area with the knowledge that there is no security to spot you. This is neither of them. He chose what appears to be a residental area, which significantly ups the possibility of bystander involvement without lowering his chances of being seen. Ergo, bad idea. Also, this is the Citadel, the heart of galactic community; the odds of there not being a camera are probably quite slim.

Bailey said it first: don't see many drell around. Unless Kolyat can immediately remove himself from the situation and book passage on a flight- without revealing his identity in the process- there's a good chance he could be outed. He might not get booked and charged, but his identity would be revealed, thus blowing a basic tenent of being an assassin: don't get caught.

And while it might suck that he doesn't have a great budget, you still don't use a pistol for this sort of situation. If he'd been camped out on a roof with a sniper rifle, then I might agree that Kolyat had a clue in hell of what he was doing. But he publically exposed himself, ran shouting at his target (who does that?), managed to take down the krogan, seriously upped potential collateral damage when it was unneccesary, and he tried to bargain his way out after his identity became known.


Not a very auspicious beginning. I will give him points for taking down the krogan... and that's about it.

[Skirata129]

I think you're mixing up the two possible outcomes of the mission. if you succesfully follow the politician, SHEPARD yells "Kolyat!" which makes him pause and both the politician and his Krogan bodyguard turn around, messing him up completely. from there he tried to use the politician as a hostage to get out, which doesn't work. If you didn't follow the politician, he simply shoves the bystander to the side, shoots the krogan and the politician and hops in a speeder. the whole thing took him less than 6 seconds if shepard messed up on tailing the politician.

[Raiil]

Which doesn't detract from the fact that he chose a horrible area for an assassination, with a crappy weapon, and if you do tail him, he botches the job- horribly. Kolyat has shown no signs of being a skilled assassin- if you lose him, he shows signs of being a very good thug. There's no finesse, and he appears to have gotten as far along as jumping in a vehicle and speeding off, leaving a living witness and a hell of a mess behind him.

[Skirata129]

I'm not saying he didn't mess things up a bit, just that he demonstrated that he posseses the capability of becoming a successful killer with no training at all. that already means he's part of a small group (only 15% of WWII soldiers were actually willing to kill the enemy, most likely significantly less in cold blood), which is why I said there needs to be some sort of in game explanation for him gaining more skills, such as reading thanes notes and practicing. He'd make a better character to add in than someone completely new.

[Massadonious1]

Familiarity is a good thing, but not necessarily in this case. If Thane insists on keeping his son's soul pure, or whatever, then I'm not sure what use he's going to be to me. Any outside training doesn't seem to mesh well with the whole reconciliation thing either.