223 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

NoShootay wrote...

I just hope that I can make my intentions clear to Kaiden from an early point in the game, and be bro's that have some kind of sense of humor and badass bond.  Heck, let's give Kaiden a chick!  Give me a sidequest where I play wingman to hook my best friend up!

 Ander's and I would slay a dragon, only for him to ask me about my feelings.  All the coolness of slaying a rowdy beast went out the window when he confesses his feelings for me, and wines about his problems like a girl.

The reason Anders whines and whinges is because he was meant to be a bit of a whingy whiner. If you actually do the romance with him, he's creepy stalkerish and acts like someone with multiple personalities.

That is, Anders was a character designed not to be a bro like Varric, but a bit of a tosser. Kaiden was designed to a healthy, regular dude, so you don't need to expect Anders' behavior from him.

[General User]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Sorry, getting a tad pasionate.  From what I can tell you're asking for a relationship that is "Right" for homosexuals/bisexuals.  I'm not particularly sure what one can consider an appropriate relationship for either gender outside of base human desires.  While gnder plays a role in whom we find attractive I don't find sexuality to demand what people want in a relationship outside of the correct connectionss as it were.  

I’m still not 100% sure what you mean; but pay that no further mind, the ways of this land are strange to me. 

The thing is I honestly don’t care about other people’s relationships or the criteria (gender included) that they look for. I care about good characters and good storytelling. And I just can’t see how altering, especially at this late date, something as fundamental as sexual orientation does anything other than damage any particular character.

Though I must say, after reading Arijharn’s and some of Pups and others’ posts I can kinda see how Kaiden had a bit of a “Champ Kind” moment on Horizon. So it wouldn’t bother me too too much if he specifically was made a  romance option for dudes.  

AngelicMachinery wrote...
Erm for the second part...  I typically could care less for realism when it comes to sexuality in games.  It is point in fact a game.

To each their own then. As you’ve probably guessed I’m on the opposite end of that particular seesaw. 

Modifié par General User, 18 juin 2011 - 03:14 .

[TexasToast712]

IsaacShep wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

Maybe an S/S toggle would be a bad idea. Make it a more in game choice instead. In Shepard's profile, have a section that states 'Sexual Orientation' with three options 'Men', 'Women' 'Both'. That way no one gets offended, everyone gets a choice. S/S shippers then don't have to accidentally restart the game because Kaidan/Vega thinks your straight because you're being friendly to Ash/Tali, or the opposite way around if you're playing as FemShep.

Not sure I understand, isn't it exactly that? A meta-gaming toggle?

It would still solve alot of problems and make everyone happy. Including me. Everyone's personal Shepard has their own canon. Why cant the canon included the sexual orientation of the characters of YOUR story. Still though, I will be extremely pleased with ME3 no matter what Bioware does, hell, I am one of the few who didnt think DAII was a flop.

[Made Nightwing]

yukidama wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

Maybe an S/S toggle would be a bad idea. Make it a more in game choice instead. In Shepard's profile, have a section that states 'Sexual Orientation' with three options 'Men', 'Women' 'Both'. That way no one gets offended, everyone gets a choice. S/S shippers then don't have to accidentally restart the game because Kaidan/Vega thinks your straight because you're being friendly to Ash/Tali, or the opposite way around if you're playing as FemShep.

I hate the idea of any sort of sexuality toggle, to be honest. The idea that players need to be that safeguarded from possibly maybe even having the possibility of encountering s/s in their games is hilarious. And if you (not specifically the person I am replying to, general you) do ~accidentally~ pick a flirt/romantic option and you aren't interested, you are always given the option to not pursue it further. That's not anything new. If you have such a big issue with it? Sorry, you just have to deal with it, the same way people who want to make homosexual characters have to deal with getting ninjamanced by opposite-sex characters.

Good points, but the very essence of Bioware's games has always been choice. I'd respect their balls if they decided to let players customize their game the way they want to play it, regardless of 'sexual political correctness'. Honestly, I know it'd spoil the RPG experience for some people if they had to turn down advances from a character they've always pictured as being straight.

I sure as hell don't go asking my bi friend about his love life, why would I go having discussions about sexual orientation with Kaidan when my Shep is a womanising playboy?

[AngelicMachinery]

General User wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Sorry, getting a tad pasionate.  From what I can tell you're asking for a relationship that is "Right" for homosexuals/bisexuals.  I'm not particularly sure what one can consider an appropriate relationship for either gender outside of base human desires.  While gnder plays a role in whom we find attractive I don't find sexuality to demand what people want in a relationship outside of the correct connectionss as it were.  

I’m still not 100% sure what you mean; but pay that no further mind, the ways of this land are strange to me. 

The thing is I honestly don’t care about other people’s relationships or the criteria (gender included) that they look for. I care about good characters and good storytelling. And I just can’t see how altering, especially at this late date, something as fundamental as sexual orientation does anything other than damage any particular character.

Though I must say, after reading Arijharn’s and some of Pups and others’ posts I can kinda see how Kaiden had a bit of a “Champ Kind” moment on Horizon. So it wouldn’t bother me too too much if he specifically was made a  romance option for dudes.  

AngelicMachinery wrote...
Erm for the second part...  I typically could care less for realism when it comes to sexuality in games.  It is point in fact a game.

To each their own then. As you’ve probably guessed I’m on the opposite end of that particular seesaw. 

I could be misunderstanding you admittedly.  I have heard people asking for a "real homosexual relationship"  Without really meaning it just being F/F or M/M as such I can get a tad confused when people say they want things to be "Realistic" as I myself am not entirely sure what the entails.  It is possible that you didn't mean that, and instead were asking for a realistic relationship or it could be me simply being a tad bit uppity which I can't deny can be in my nature in this particular subject.

As for realism in sexuality in characters,  it doesn't matter to me in a game simply because in my oppinion (Based on my own experince) sexuality generally isn't what defines a person as such a change in what a person is attracted to doesn't change the core of their persona.

[Maria Caliban]

I used to ask for a real homosexual relationship. I typically meant a LI that was gay. Not 'possibly gay if you ignore what happens when the PC is of the opposite gender' but a bonified same-sex exclusive character.

My feelings have change though.

[Maria Caliban]

yukidama wrote...

I hate the idea of any sort of sexuality toggle, to be honest. The idea that players need to be that safeguarded from possibly maybe even having the possibility of encountering s/s in their games is hilarious.

I admit that after years of having dudes hit on my female characters despite lack of interest on my part, I'm not entirely sympathetic to view that we need desperately need a toggle RIGHT NOW because otherwise DudeShep will be subject to the same.

[shepskisaac]

Made Nightwing...
Good points, but the very essence of Bioware's games has always been choice.

A choice to react to situations the way you want, not really a choice to avoid reacting the situations at all.

[Jademoon121]

We don't need a toggle because we can do this; reject.

• Person hits on you
• You don't find said person attractive.
• You turn them down
• Move on.

Seriously people, it's just like that in real life. There are gay men and lesbians that deal with being hit on by the opposite sex all the time. If they can do it in reality, I'm sure most people can do it in video games.

 

[mellifera]

Made Nightwing wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

Maybe an S/S toggle would be a bad idea. Make it a more in game choice instead. In Shepard's profile, have a section that states 'Sexual Orientation' with three options 'Men', 'Women' 'Both'. That way no one gets offended, everyone gets a choice. S/S shippers then don't have to accidentally restart the game because Kaidan/Vega thinks your straight because you're being friendly to Ash/Tali, or the opposite way around if you're playing as FemShep.

I hate the idea of any sort of sexuality toggle, to be honest. The idea that players need to be that safeguarded from possibly maybe even having the possibility of encountering s/s in their games is hilarious. And if you (not specifically the person I am replying to, general you) do ~accidentally~ pick a flirt/romantic option and you aren't interested, you are always given the option to not pursue it further. That's not anything new. If you have such a big issue with it? Sorry, you just have to deal with it, the same way people who want to make homosexual characters have to deal with getting ninjamanced by opposite-sex characters.

Good points, but the very essence of Bioware's games has always been choice. I'd respect their balls if they decided to let players customize their game the way they want to play it, regardless of 'sexual political correctness'. Honestly, I know it'd spoil the RPG experience for some people if they had to turn down advances from a character they've always pictured as being straight.

I sure as hell don't go asking my bi friend about his love life, why would I go having discussions about sexual orientation with Kaidan when my Shep is a womanising playboy?

Choice: Not picking flirtatious dialogue options with same-sex characters.
Choice: If you do pick something that leads to your character flirting for whatever reason, then turn the character down and choose not to pursue that line of dialogue.
Choice: Don't pursue s/s romances and treat that character the same way you treat all the others you aren't banging.
Choice: Talk to that character about whatever else, there are tonnes of things to talk about that don't involve what kind of person/alien/bug they like to have sex with if it really bothers you.

Also, I despise the implication that a character isn't/can't be your 'bro' if they are ******/bisexual. If you expect them to have your back at all times and be your best friend, they somehow have to be only interested in the opposite sex or everything is ruined forever? Garrus makes a great bro to female Shepard too, and he is interested in women. Or is it just gay panic that makes a character unable to be your bro if they happen to be interested in people of the same sex? Is it okay if your opposite-sex friend thinks of you in a sexual manner because then it's inoffensive even if you aren't interested in the slightest? I honestly do not understand this BS.

Modifié par yukidama, 18 juin 2011 - 04:23 .

[leggywillow]

If they do it like ME2, we really don't need a toggle.  None of the LIs even shoot a glance in Shepard's direction if Shepard doesn't instigate it.

I personally preferred ME1's romances, since they seemed to have a lot more dialogue and content, but seriously, how hard is it to NOT CLICK on the dialogue that says "I want you, Thane" or "Let's test your reach and my flexibility"?!  Even if Garrus never whispers a flirty word in Shepard's direction otherwise, does just seeing that dialogue option there really bother people?

[Zjarcal]

mrsph wrote...

I keep telling you people. There is a gay toggle.

It's called not doing the romance.

THIS!

I can't believe it's that hard to grasp for some people.

[TexasToast712]

Zjarcal wrote...

mrsph wrote...

I keep telling you people. There is a gay toggle.

It's called not doing the romance.

THIS!

I can't believe it's that hard to grasp for some people.

The problem isnt grasping that. Its the fact that in some peoples canon Shepard stories, their squadmates sexualities are already established. A toggle at the start of every new ME3 playthrough similar to MW2's toggle option to skip the airport massacre level would keep everyone happy.

[mellifera]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

mrsph wrote...

I keep telling you people. There is a gay toggle.

It's called not doing the romance.

THIS!

I can't believe it's that hard to grasp for some people.

The problem isnt grasping that. Its the fact that in some peoples canon Shepard stories, their squadmates sexualities are already established. A toggle at the start of every new ME3 playthrough similar to MW2's toggle option to skip the airport massacre level would keep everyone happy.

Except for the people who have clearly said it wouldn't make them happy.

[Mr.House]

leggywillow wrote...

If they do it like ME2, we really don't need a toggle.  None of the LIs even shoot a glance in Shepard's direction if Shepard doesn't instigate it.

I personally preferred ME1's romances, since they seemed to have a lot more dialogue and content, but seriously, how hard is it to NOT CLICK on the dialogue that says "I want you, Thane" or "Let's test your reach and my flexibility"?!  Even if Garrus never whispers a flirty word in Shepard's direction otherwise, does just seeing that dialogue option there really bother people?

As much as I love Ash,Kaidan, Liara getting caught in a ninjamance when I'm trying tio have a Shepard romancelss for ME2 is a pain, so I prefer how it in ME2 in terms of starting a romance.

[AngelicMachinery]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

mrsph wrote...

I keep telling you people. There is a gay toggle.

It's called not doing the romance.

THIS!

I can't believe it's that hard to grasp for some people.

The problem isnt grasping that. Its the fact that in some peoples canon Shepard stories, their squadmates sexualities are already established. A toggle at the start of every new ME3 playthrough similar to MW2's toggle option to skip the airport massacre level would keep everyone happy.

If by everyone you mean people who want a toggle that is meant to sweep a certain minority under the rug than you'd be right everyone would be happy.  This though isn't what everyone wants,  this is what a group of people want so as to keep teh gay from coming into the game.  

As a brief aside...

Modifié par AngelicMachinery, 18 juin 2011 - 04:40 .

[Abispa]

Personally, I find things like murder, xenophobia, genocide, slavery, and women in short skirts sitting like men to be very offensive, yet there is no toggle to prevent me from being exposed to such immoral behavior. Nor is there a pre-game feature that will prevent my Shepard from even being exposed to the option of performing such immoral behavior.

By not catering to my delicate sensibilities, Bioware's reputation is ruined. I blame EA, because they don't care about the fans.

Seriously, though, even those who want the dreaded "bi-option" for previously established characters don't want them to be ninja-gay-romancers, and Bioware said that the same-sex option would have to be initiated by the player, so if you don't want to ruin your Kaiden bro-mance, don't. Nor do we want Bioware to stick with the ME tradition of severly limiting character interaction with characters you don't want to romance. Nor should a person who skips romances entirely feel that s/he is missing crucial parts of the game.

And I don't see how a pre-game toggle, promotes "realism." Gay characters can't find Shepard attractive, even if s/he is straight?

[leggywillow]

TexasToast712 wrote...
The problem isnt grasping that. Its the fact that in some peoples canon Shepard stories, their squadmates sexualities are already established. A toggle at the start of every new ME3 playthrough similar to MW2's toggle option to skip the airport massacre level would keep everyone happy.

But a toggle is just unnecessary.  The way ME2 did romances, they were extremely separate dialogue options.  It wasn't Shepard responding to sexual or flirtatious dialogue from the squadmate, like you'd see in DA2.  It's Shepard initiating.  If ME3 is at all like ME2, you won't have squadmates coming onto Shepard like they did to Hawke.  Different game.

My uber-Paragon also has Renegade options that would allow her to shove people out of windows, which is against her canon.  The option is there, and I don't take it.  I call it my "anti-Renegade toggle".  The presence of those choices doesn't affect her canon at all.

The dialogue wheel itself is the toggle, if you ask me.  If people have established canon sexualities for characters other than their own (...which is weird to me, but whatever), then by simply not choosing those dialogue options, their canon will remain intact.

[jeweledleah]

Jademoon121 wrote...

We don't need a toggle because we can do this; reject.

• Person hits on you
• You don't find said person attractive.
• You turn them down
• Move on.

Seriously people, it's just like that in real life. There are gay men and lesbians that deal with being hit on by the opposite sex all the time. If they can do it in reality, I'm sure most people can do it in video games.

 

except in real life, its difficult to impossible to remain friends with someone who was genuinely atracted to you and you didn't feel the same way - it keeps hanging between you, like an invisible elephant, forcing you to be more careful with what you say, how you act, making you wonder if you some how led them on without even realizing.  and it has nothing to do with genders or sexual orientations either, unrequited feelings are just.. unfun all the way around for both parties, male or female, straight or gay. straight folks get hit on by other people that they are not atracted to all the time as well and sometimes straight people end up in a situations where feelings are onesided as well.  it sucks.  it hurts.  and then it hurts you everytime you see them happy with someone else, becasue you wish it was you.. and your friend now feels bad, so they try to hide their feelings to spare you the pain.. and you see each other less and less and then you drift appart, friendship ruined.  all becasue only one of you fell in love.

so why not just have Shepard always initiate relationship and npc's be in friendzone/professional zone, unless player decides to change it?  no secret crushes, no hopeless devotion bordering on stalking (I'm looking at you Liara and Anders - and again, before you say anything - its the same regadless of your npc gender or orientation), just plain old friends to lovers, except unlike real life - you actualy have a chance to get them to love you back.