67 réponses à ce sujet

[Massadonious1]

Eshaye wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Indoctrination takes weeks or months, sometimes even a year.

Also Saren was serving Sovereign for years and still had free will even by the end of ME1.

What...... ? Not quite.... <_<

Before he became husk-Saren, you could Pargon convince him to blow his own head off.

I'd say that takes some considerable free will.

[Paulinius]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Indoctrination takes weeks or months, sometimes even a year.

Also Saren was serving Sovereign for years and still had free will even by the end of ME1.

What...... ? Not quite.... <_<

Before he became husk-Saren, you could Pargon convince him to blow his own head off.

I'd say that takes some considerable free will.

He had one moment of lucidity.

He was still indoctrinated and if he didn't take the shot, he would have been back under full Sovereign control

[thetruefreemo]

I'm not really worried about shepard. I'm more concerned about the population of earth. How are they going to not be indoctrinated?

[Massadonious1]

Well, that moment of lucidity is impressive considering how much time he spent in and around Sovereign. Shep and company have only had trace exposure, if that. I think they should be fine.

If not, hopefully the Reapers wont be alive long enough to get the full job done.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 18 juin 2011 - 09:41 .

[kaiki01]

Depends on how long the exposure is. The number of times people bring this up. Shepard is not around reapers all that much in the first two games. If in the 3rd game he is around them for quick fight scenes, there doesn't seem to be any danger at all. >_>

[Paulinius]

thetruefreemo wrote...

I'm not really worried about shepard. I'm more concerned about the population of earth. How are they going to not be indoctrinated?

They should be indoctrinated. I wonder how BioWare is going to plot armor Earth's population.

I also wonder why they don't use seeker swarms. That would have been effective.

[Paulinius]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Well, that moment of lucidity is impressive considering how much time he spent in and around Sovereign. Shep and company have only had trace exposure, if that. I think they should be fine.

If not, hopefully the Reapers wont be alive long enough to get the full job done.

Very true. The fact that Saren, Benezia, and Grayson all were able to temporarally overcome indoctrination is impressive. For the first two, it's probably because they weren't huskified; but with Grayson it was just storytelling.

[Son of Illusive Man]

Paulinius wrote...

thetruefreemo wrote...

I'm not really worried about shepard. I'm more concerned about the population of earth. How are they going to not be indoctrinated?

They should be indoctrinated. I wonder how BioWare is going to plot armor Earth's population.

I also wonder why they don't use seeker swarms. That would have been effective.

Aren't seekers "owned" by the Collectors who were destroyed?

[Radwar]

Just use Magneto's helmet.

[Paulinius]

Son of Illusive Man wrote...

Paulinius wrote...

thetruefreemo wrote...

I'm not really worried about shepard. I'm more concerned about the population of earth. How are they going to not be indoctrinated?

They should be indoctrinated. I wonder how BioWare is going to plot armor Earth's population.

I also wonder why they don't use seeker swarms. That would have been effective.

Aren't seekers "owned" by the Collectors who were destroyed?

Yes. But they received orders from the Harbinger controlled Collector General. I would assume that Harbinger and the Reapers would have access to their information and technology since they created them and remained in contact with them.

[Davie McG]

Paulinius wrote...

Son of Illusive Man wrote...

Paulinius wrote...

thetruefreemo wrote...

I'm not really worried about shepard. I'm more concerned about the population of earth. How are they going to not be indoctrinated?

They should be indoctrinated. I wonder how BioWare is going to plot armor Earth's population.

I also wonder why they don't use seeker swarms. That would have been effective.

Aren't seekers "owned" by the Collectors who were destroyed?

Yes. But they received orders from the Harbinger controlled Collector General. I would assume that Harbinger and the Reapers would have access to their information and technology since they created them and remained in contact with them.

It's possible that, like the collectors, the seekers took thousands of years of genetic modification to become what they are in me2, if so you just annihilated all their genetic material.

That isn't to say they don't have some other species saved up to use against us, they have been doing it for 37 million years...

Modifié par Davie McG, 18 juin 2011 - 10:07 .

[ZLurps]

I think that how Saren was able to have even that moment of free will at the end of ME1 tells very much what kind of individuals Spectres are. Among other things, those who get chosen to be a Spectre has extremely strong will. They are no ordinary people.


I have couple of other theories in addition to strong will of Shepard why she/he is able to resist indoctrination.

Perhaps the Prothean beacon was able to "program" Shepard with some sort of resistance (it was able to program Prothean language in Shepard's brain) against indoctrination.

Then, in ME2 Shepard is pretty much a cyborg and perhaps indoctrination isn't as effective against synthetic, or augmented beings as pure organic beings. Sovereign weren't completely successful with the Geth for example, though there was entire collective Geth processing power against just one Reaper's processing power. It would be nice to know more about this...

One more theory I can think of is that Reapers don't want really indoctrinate Shepard (yet). Perhaps they want to know how Shepard, who is "becoming annoyance" for them (to quote Harbinger) is able to do such things. Perhaps Reapers can't get all the information they want from indoctrinated person, but want to capture and study Shepard to analyze this annoying unseen variable in their plan.


To sum things up: For me some sort of combination of these theories would make Shepard's resistance for indoctrination believable.

1. Very exceptional, extremely strong willed individual right from the start slows down indoctrination process (without destroying the subject).
2. Prothean counter measures Shepard gained from Prothean beacon. Could be something simple, like altering how Shepard perceives ultra- and infrasonic waves and so damping at least psychological effect, for example.
3. Shepard is a cyborg, not entirely organic or synthetic, making indoctrination process more complicated and slow.
4. Reapers would rather study than indoctrinate Shepard. Reapers know from previous cycles that person like Shepard would destroy him/herself as soon as he / she would start feeling symptoms of indoctrination. So Reapers would lose valuable subject to study.
Also, quick indoctrination (just bake in 15 Mhz frequency at 180 dB for two hours and add some water uh, EMP) might destroy what is valuable in Shepard to study.

Modifié par ZLurps, 19 juin 2011 - 09:08 .

[BadgerladDK]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

 ... special goggles?

Damn you, was going to reply with "the goggles they do nothing" before I clicked.

Well, funny guy... Laughing time is over

[Ahriman]

Weird theory appears. As we know Reapers sometime infest individuals with nanites, it allows them to modify bodies of their victims and more effectively indocrinate them (and assume control of course). Let's imagine for second that TIM found out that nanites in some Sovereign's parts are able to biosynthesis and he used it for known purpose. But technically those nanites are the only thing which left from Sovereign and nobody has access to them (if Sovereign didn't tell someone root password when was drunk). So the only one who still has some influence on these nanites is their carrier. Shepard actually indocrinates him-/herself and this process is obviously stronger than outside indocrination.
Oh well, Shepard just has strong will, that's enough.

[FERMi27]

Why the hell his strong will wouldn't save him while melding with Morinth then? Strong will doesn't equal mental godmode.

[Nimander]

Morinth's melding isn't merely mental. It's biological. She links your nervous systems through some weird method.

Also, as has been said multiple times, you are not indoctrinated quickly. It takes a week at the minimum, and probably longer. Shepard was around the Arrival artifact for a day or two. He's totally fine.

[FERMi27]

It would be too unnatural to leave Shepard unaffected by all that's happening. Simply put, we MUST have an episode where he battles the indoctrination in his Ethereal world, pretty much like the last chapter in Metro 2033.

[No1Codename47]

For Shep to become indoctrinated he would have to have come in constant contact with a Reaper or a Reaper device. I just don't think he's been around Reapers long enough. Sovereign, the derelict Reaper he was only around them for short periods. I think people underestimate the length of time the indoctrination process can take.

However....the one wild card is Object Rho. We know he woke up in a hospital bed but the key question is what happened during the two days he was out of it. Was he exposed to Object Rho for all that time or just left in the hospital bed? If he did spend those 2 days exposed to Object Rho before being dumped in the hospital bed...then well things could get interesting in ME3.